Congrats! This is something I'd love to do one day if I find myself not tied to a location by social connections.
This stuck out to me:
> I decided to focus on building a meditation app as my main project. I came up with the idea because I saw others around me struggling to stick to meditation...
Do you expect another meditation app to help with this? I think many folks interested in mediation quickly find a good beginner/handhold-y app like Headspace. Yet, like language learning w/ Duolingo, few people actually stick to it. I think Duolingo and Headspace are awesome and to be honest, if I can't make something stick with these two I'm not sure how an app could be "better" at making me stick to something.
I think meditation is the new diet fad. People try it but generally will not stick with it long term. Maybe they’ll try a different type of meditation (diet). A vocal minority will have success and life change that continues to inspire and fuel the trend. But as a business, high churn ahead is my guess.
Thank you for the kind words! Headspace and other apps are great for meditation beginners. You mentioned Duolingo as an example that has made language learning more fun and thus easier to stick to. Similarly, I think there's a lot of room for improvement in how people learn meditation. I approach habit development from a different angle though: sticking to a habit comes after certain conditions are met, and it's not just about "gamifying" everything. There are ways to learn meditation that make the practice itself much more meaningful, and thus easier to stick to.
>Does everything need to have a tie to tech and the latest gizmo?
add ties to cloud , and wearables, and 24x7 tracking, and some motivational quote notifications to keep the user more connected. and then sell data to advertisers.
So there's too much tech and people should just stop? It's not that I disagree, I just don't think you're adding anything interesting to that debate. And you are shitting on someone's work.
While I am not a fan of meditation, there is a large variety and some of them can definitely benefit from an app - e.g. guided meditation, meditation for specific time intervals etc.
I'm not really a fan of cooking either but I still do it most days. It is possible to know something about a thing, have experience of a thing, have some useful insight into tools that are useful for it, all without enjoying said thing.
You have to be kidding? Literally nobody here is claiming that their knowledge is above-intermediary level. How is it that you're misinterpreting what people are actually saying so badly?
Are you doing so deliberately?
Do you not perceive the acute irony of what you've just said in the face of the fact that you have shown such a basic misunderstanding of the comments to which you've responded, whether deliberately or otherwise?
If you think my understanding of what he said is the same as he claiming that he knows what is better for cooking without liking it I have nothing to say to you.
Sure, and I might not understand which app would be best here but I can tell an app can be helpful just like I can tell that a spray bottle can be useful in cooking even if I can't tell which would be the very best one or which cooking styles it will benefit the most.
If I want to meditate I don't want to have my phone or a computer anywhere near me. Having an app "guide" you is essentially another distraction you'll have to eliminate.
Yeah, I've come to a similar conclusion. I actually made my own meditation timer app for iOS[0] before, but nowadays I don't like to use it anymore. However, I do like to track my meditation time, so I've been using the Insight Timer[1] Apple Watch app for this and keep my phone out of reach.
I think it's a little like learning how to play a piano. You can sit down and teach yourself or you can look for help from a teacher. Either way works although I think most people benefit from some guidance.
Tech folks didn’t invent guided meditations. There was already seminars, classes, retreat, etc where some one explained how to mediate or walked you though mediation. People just randomly start sitting.
Exactly. And this general progression is what my app will promote and help cultivate. The goal is to help you develop such a strong meditation habit, one that you'll want to stick to and be able to without effort, that you don't need my or any other meditation app for anything at all (except maybe a timer).
It just seems like several thousand people already had this exact sequence of thoughts and did the exact same thing and so there are several hundred meditation apps that nobody really needs and that don't really benefit anybody except the indulgent scrounger who set out to monetize something that should be and already is offered free. If you're "not sticking to" meditation you don't need a different app, you need to realize that you valuing other things over it that are pulling you out.
Thank you for sharing your meditation/breathing app and code! I really appreciate the kind gesture. I'll definitely take a look to learn more about what kinds of things people need/want.
I personally think that the meditation app space is under explored. Or rather the dominant players have their business model (a hefty monthly subscription) dictating their app design.
So rather than a coaching model, think of a simple tool like a gong or a timer.
Much like the original "Sleep Cycle" app, only for mediation (combing a timer with the feedback you can collect via the sensors of a phone).
Making a good meditation timer is not an easy task. I have tried many on both iOS and Android and can recommend only one that suits me - Meditation Timer by Telesense...
It is really difficult to filter out all obstructions and notifications. And it takes carefull design to make flexible timer that suits meditator needs.
As for meditation coaching app I think there are so many approaches to teaching meditation that there is a space for many more apps. But I doubt that one size fits all approach will ever work... Best approach might be not an app but a meditation platform where a student might mix various techniques, teachings, styles... etc...
There are a few things that I started with the app version and eventually upgraded to a dedicated device - a metronome, guitar tuner, and ereader are ones that I have near me right now.
But Sleep Cycle is an alarm clock app that wakes you up at the point where you are most awake in your sleep cycle, at a given interval (say 6.45 - 7.15). It measures where you are in your sleep cycle by having you put your phone under your pillow and then use the accelerometer of the phone.
Do something similar for meditation and you will have a substantially different product.
I used to love Insight Timer. It was a really good meditation timer! It provided a number of pleasing sounds and was really configurable.
Then came the social features. They actually weren’t bad. You could create a profile and track your meditation, and you’d get messages from people all over the world thanking you for “meditating with them.”
Then the app was sold to a couple of meditation entrepreneurs.
It took a little while, but soon the app wasn’t a nice meditation timer any longer. It was a platform for people to share and sell guided meditations.
The timer feature was de-emphasized. Login became required. They added courses, group meditations, sleep stories.
The timer is still in there if you can find it, only now some features are restricted to Insight Timer premium members who pay $60/year.
—-
I think the app was at its best right before it was sold. Sign in was optional, and while the social features felt a bit superfluous they were quirky and fun, and also easily turned off.
Thanks for sharing Troy! I imagine it's not easy to build in public and to write in public when you don't necessarily have it all figured out. Respect your willingness to put yourself out there as you figure it out, and looking forward to learning alongside you on your journey.
Thank you so much for your kindness! Putting myself out there definitely isn't easy. I have a ton to learn, and always will. Looking forward to continuing the adventure and sharing more!
Why would you need to quit your job to make a meditation app? Can't you make one in a few days? They don't have any social elements etc, just an app that plays music and notifications.
Now a days I've become a big proponent of "Talk is cheap, show me the code", not just in s/w field but in general.
If someone says "I did it in 3 days and here is how I went about it" that will lend them more authority and also lead to all kinds of interesting conversations and learnings.
Mind you, I used to make similar comments but over the years as I introspected I realised there's not much to be learnt by building castles in the air and talking about it from the sidelines.
As they say, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice but in practice there is.
Well, first of all, his intention was to quit their job in the first place, with app or not. The app was created to support the quiting, not vice versa.
If you trying to build a business there is a lot more to it than simply building a prototype. The problem with the MVP/prototype idea is that it cheats people into thinking that there is some sort of straight line between idea, prototype and success.
There isn't. There is maybe a hundred iterations between idea, prototype, marketing before something catches traction. And that is where persistance, focus and dedication (including quitting your day job) comes in.
and turn off and back on notifications and calls. and dim the screen. and collect the progres. and allow for intermediate "checkpoint" dings . and are flexibly configurable. and allow for guided meditations. definitively minimize power consumption.
etcetcetc
ps: for a backend think about collecting meditation statistics, and pulling in meditator networking, online meditation groups, running longitudinal meditation studies "how was your sit" and other parameters... if you eont put that into the meditation app you want the meditation app to send notifications to the other apps, so add events and notifications to the no-backend list above.
point being: its more than a timer and notifications.
You could make something in a few days but probably nothing that you would be proud to show the world. I wouldn't be surprised if OP spends a few days just playing with colors and fonts to find something that looks great.
Most meditation apps seem to assume the user is already motivated to learn meditation. What if you instead focus on convincing them that meditation can benefit them, and then guide them once they are onboard with the idea of meditation itself?
Motivation is the biggest barrier. Most people might wait until there are “problems” and turn to meditation (even then it might be hard to convince them), but if you crack the motivation problem, you could be on to something.
I have been meditating for several years. At start I was obsessed with using a tracking app, namely Insight Timer. I looked at statistics for my sessions every day and even sometime bragged about time that I spent on the cushion. Some girls were really impressed ;) Nowadays - I am using a countdown timer on my watch, don't give a fig about statistics and just enjoy my precious time on cushion :)
I have a bit of a problem with this mindfulness craze, I’m not really precious about Buddhist practices being solely for Buddhists, but these mindfulness programmes are taking a very small aspect of something that has been practiced for millennia without really having a way to deal with the results… most people will feel something after 8 weeks or so of such a practice, however usually after this point, if they’ve not given up, a lot of stuff bubbles to the surface which really you need a proper zen teacher to work through…
Someone selling you an 8 week programme to “fix your anxiety” or such, probably doesn’t have the same depth of experience as someone who has practiced Zazen for several decades, there are no shortcuts and it could be harmful.
If you really want the real deal, I can recommend you read a couple of Brad Warner books before you commit.
As long as you don’t overdo it, a 15-30 minute meditation won’t hurt. I have taught yoga and meditation for over a decade and I have always been very mindful (pun intended) to not make the error of doing the hard stuff that was intended for monasteries.
They are basically two different tracks.
That said, having a pool of resources to help out would be beneficial to those who meditate and feel they need it.
Ignore the naysayers in this thread. They have never experienced assisted meditation before. The biggest impact in my life (outside of having kids) was when I discovered Qi-gong and the power of assisted meditation. The thing that clicked the most for me was having calm soothing meditation music to help enter the trance state of consciousness. My mind tends to wander and focusing on the sound helped deliver clear thought.
Meditation isn't a "trance state". There are recurring refutations of this throughout Buddhist literature over the millenia. The answer to a conditioned existence is not more conditioning. Yes, states of refined pleasure can be used as springboards for insight, so-called "jhanas" but they are by no means the dominant method of practice. Seeing through conditioned reality doesn't require any trance or altered state at all, just a lot of practice and time and patience.
Qigong is its own thing and should be addressed as its own thing. It's an energy-based practice with various claims to longevity and health through proscribed movements.
Qigong exercises are very much like guided meditation, almost like kata in martial arts. You can gain the benefits of Qigong as meditation without buying into the energy work as anything other than a metaphor.
Meditation is many things. One of those is a trance state, although I can see how that is not helpful to "beginners", when awareness and clearing the mind is generally more the point.
But using meditation to achieve trance states has a long history. To the extent that it predates history.
Qigong is a form of meditation. I've been practicing it for over 20 years. I learned it from Shih Yan Ming of the USA Shaolin Temple. My term "trance state" is an anecdote to the words he used. "Emptiness of the mind". I'm simply stating my own experience here.
I've been helping an organization that hosts retreats (yoga, qi-gong, and other types) and I still think a lot of these practices still suffer from the New Age era, and it still ripples to these days because some people read those funny names and bind it to "oh that's just some crazy people/cult/weird/hippies non-sense".
So I'm beginning to wonder if we shouldn't drop the names completely and call them for what it is: like you said, assisted meditation. Or just rebrand them into something more contemporary.
Don't take me wrong, a lot of people still seek these events, but the masses will always frown upon them.
I agree, meditation would benefit a lot from a no-nonsense approach and wording.
Then again in my experience a lot of practitioners of meditation and related techniques use those New Age terms not for a lack of better terminology but because they actually intend to convey the New Age meaning (whatever that is exactly). So I'm not sure they would agree with you to drop those names.
Thank you for your support. It's amazing how technology influences us, and how we influence technology. Meditation or any other practice is no different.
I keep hearing about this kids thing, gonna have to get on that soon...
Also, choosing to build a meditation app is only a small part of this post really - making the leap of faith to leave behind (apparent) security is a much bigger part of this in my view. Hats off to you Troy!
>making the leap of faith to leave behind (apparent) security is a much bigger part of this in my view.
Agreed. Which is why attaching use of phones to meditation seems contrary to the point.
Perhaps leaving a world where everything is mediated by smartphones behind is the next step.
I know but I replied just so on the off chance that a reader might've thought they're both the same, which I've thought before actually, so just wanted to clear up that misconception.
Waking Up is a great non-mystical type of meditation app. I strongly recommend checking this out if you’re at all turned off by the voodoo surrounding meditation.
I'm personally a huge fan of Waking Up! Have been a long time user. I'm looking to bring a different experience to the table to address the underlying needs of why anyone would want to use a meditation app, or even start to do meditation without one, in the first place
Insight Timer. But as another sibling comment mentioned, Waking Up is worth the money; and if you can't afford a subscription, they'll give you a free one.
I personally believe that all problems are, at their core, human problems. Hence why the focus on meditation as an Archimedes lever. Technology helps us solve problems at scale, but it has to be applied "mindfully". Technology is always a double-edged sword (see Facebook)
They defined it as addressing problems that don't exist. I always think about battery powered spinning forks.
I've been to a Vipassana camp and every day for 10 days we would meditate for 12 hours a day in a hall. As people have for more than 2000 years. I'm in no way a meditation guru nor a traditionalist but any app that would give you stimulus whether it be through vibrations or visual/verbal instructions would take away from the grounding and mindful experience.
I am confident that most people who buy meditation apps don't actually meditate for more than a few days. We all already have a meditation app. It's a the clock app, you can set an alarm on it. Similar to those people who buy a expensive ellipticals or bikes and never use it. Peloton regret is a real thing.
I think this is a first world problem regarding consumerism. Capitalist society and the higher ups convincing us to worship money. Where we put all our energy into obtaining money in order to put it back in the system. Man has successfully domesticated man.
If anyone really wanted to meditate, they would just do it. Maybe look up how to do it, then do it. But we live in an app world today, it is what it is.
I just realized you're the poster of the article. I don't mean to say what you're doing is pointless but it'd be cooler if you made a meditation app that locked the phone or something totally different than the other apps.
What do you mean by: "I personally believe that all problems are, at their core, human problems. Hence why the focus on meditation as an Archimedes lever."
Yes, tech should solve problems mindfully which is why I always see meditation apps and the like to be oxymoronic. Our brains did not evolve at the rate our technology did, it is nigh impossible to be mindful with technology. We also did not evolve to work and play on computers all day and we are now seeing the psychological and physiological epidemic of problems. That's why people in the cities go camping to "unplug". That's why there a movement of high income industrious workers like yourself quitting and picking up manual labor jobs. Making things with your hands is far more fulfilling than coding small parts in a multi billion dollar app. It's just how our brains and bodies work. I believe this is another fundamental problem with humans today, up there with consumerism.
Your Memento chrome extension is pretty sick though and is pretty mindful. I just installed it.
I’ve downloaded a lot of mediation apps and they all seem same. Throw rhythmic breathing (maybe make it configurable, but not too configurable), mix in some simple animations, and the same Creative Commons gongs and bells, and call it a day. Hire some people to do some voice overs for “guided meditations”, and charge a $50 monthly subscription fee.
I even started to make my own until I discovered you couldn’t get haptics to work in your own app like how haptics work in Apple’s Breathe watch app.
So my question is simple: in a crowded space with low barriers to entry, how do you plan differentiate your app?
It's nice to see a renewed public interest in meditation driving the trend of new meditation apps, but I feel that most of the apps miss the point. The act of meditating is marketed as an individualistic, prescriptive activity for stress and anxiety; it is absent any of the spiritual content that (for me) makes it potent.
To elaborate, I personally didn't get much out of meditation until I starting using it to sit with concepts like impermanence, non-attachment, and oneness from the Zen tradition.
By contrast, apps like Headspace are selling themselves like "feeling anxious? Try our app!" and getting corporate sponsorships for employers to give subscriptions to their employees, like a commodity to pacify a stressed out workforce.
But who knows, maybe it's still a net good in that it might introduce more people to the practice. And maybe some of the apps get deeper into the practice than the ones I used.
> By contrast, apps like Headspace are selling themselves like "feeling anxious? Try our app!" and getting corporate sponsorships for employers to give subscriptions to their employees, like a commodity to pacify a stressed out workforce.
These don't sound like complaints about anything the app itself lacks, they sound like complaints that it is successful at marketing.
This post could’ve been about a to-do list app and it wouldn’t change the overall feeling of privilege from the author, all the best for him but you can’t pass this as some inspirational type of post
This stuck out to me:
> I decided to focus on building a meditation app as my main project. I came up with the idea because I saw others around me struggling to stick to meditation...
Do you expect another meditation app to help with this? I think many folks interested in mediation quickly find a good beginner/handhold-y app like Headspace. Yet, like language learning w/ Duolingo, few people actually stick to it. I think Duolingo and Headspace are awesome and to be honest, if I can't make something stick with these two I'm not sure how an app could be "better" at making me stick to something.