My neighborhood. When we moved in we sat out front every evening, and made small talk with every single person who walked by. Some were caught off guard, some kinda just waved and moved on, but most stopped to talk.
What's interesting is that people who had lived in that neighborhood nearly 20 years together had never talked, and met for the first time as both stopped to chat at nearly the same time.
Then we started with small gifts, usually food because my wife cooks exotic things for people to try. Now we get random gifts, usually food or fruits or some flower or plant.
Now we have little get togethers inviting each other, text to ask if need anything from the store, etc. And all it took was being willing to sit outside for a couple hours each night and say hi.
Yes this exactly. I threw a block party last year and the community loved it and most were like "you know we haven't had one in years."
A year later and we've found lost dogs, gotten people employed and I have some of the best and strongest relationships in years - and my kids have a ton of others to hang with of all ages (7-15)
I host two events. In fall, I’m the pancake breakfast guy and then in spring I’m the crawfish boil guy. I just put flyers on people’s doors before each event. I just think it’s fun and missed the sense of neighborhood community I had as a kid, had my “be the change you want” moment. My kid on the other hand gets a kick out of having everyone know his name and being a hyper local celebrity lol.
My kid would love you for the pancakes, and my wife for the crawfish boil.
Any tips/recipes for the boil? Assuming it's that cajun buttery stuff - I have to drive an hour to get some, and would love to be able to make it as good at home.
It’s not hard. Just takes a little practice, right/good equipment, and good ingredients. My main tip is get them live. Get them purged and cleaned if possible. Otherwise just another simple skill to learn but definitely don’t want poopy crawfish. I find people devour the potatoes and corn. Then about 4 lbs of crawfish per person (some people will eat none and some will eat 10 lbs so hard to estimate).
You can probably get the decent starter recipe online as it’s pretty basic and you’ll just start with a premix of spices. I wouldn’t recommend DIY approach for a bit on spices. Do a couple practice runs to build muscle memory and adjust how spicy(hot) you like it.
I grew up around it but even still I had to watch some YouTube videos to spark my memory of what the adults were actually doing. So just invest some time there as well.
Good luck with the boils!
Edit: to add, I also have to drive a bit. It was partially the genesis for this as I realized I somehow crossed this border where I was no longer near the gulf coast but inland and although I’m in same state it’s actually quite a different culture where I am versus closer to the coast.
We've been doing the same. I recently have gotten into brisket smoking, and for the last few weekends, my wife and kids have been out in the yard every Saturday all day smoking meats. At night we offer some to everybody who walks by.
I'm prepared for this to be an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad my neighbors don't do this.
I know my neighbors well enough. We check each other's mail when they're away and will help out in other ways.
But I have lots of friends to keep up with outside of my neighborhood -- people I have a lot in common with -- my neighbors, not so much. If they wanted to talk with me each time I saw them coming or going, I would likely start actively avoiding them so I could get on my way.
You would love my next door neighbors. They moved in the same week we did 2 years ago. We saw them when they first drove up and enters their garage (middle age couple). Since then, nobody has ever seen them. They never have lights on in their house at night. They never answer their door. They never open their garage and drive away. They never have packages or anything else delivered. They only way we know they are still alive is their trash bins go out and are taken back in every week (though nobody has ever seen them do it) and in the winter you can see the white smoke/condensation from their utility vents.
We assume they are leaving in the dead of night and grocery shopping at one of the 24 hour grocery stores. Maybe they have packages delivered somewhere they can pick them up in the dead of night. There is always someone around during the day, so for sure somebody would have seen them come or go if they were doing so during the day in the past 2 years. Our conjecture is either they are vampires (which is unlikely since it was daytime when they first arrived) or they are in the witness protection program.
I just remembered another detail. They have grass in their front yard. It is cut, but a service has never come by and cut it and, of course, we’ve never seen them cut it. But we don’t hear any sounds in the dead of night of it being cut and it doesn’t look like it was cut with a scythe. Frankly, it’s a mystery.
it's a little dramatic to say it's an unpopular opinion for you to not want to exchange deep hour-long life stories with your neighbor every interaction. of course!
i'm replying because the fact you mention "i know my neighbors well enough" is already the ideal that OP is speaking on. in todays world you can literally not acknowledge your neighbor's existence in all directions and get along 100% just fine. i mean, "borrowing sugar" is why instacart exists!
no no no, you're already doing lovely and agreeing with OP that neighbors, as real human people to honor as existing, is a good thing.
It's sad that modern American yards are so unfriendly to sitting in your front yard, but that can be easily fixed, even within the boundaries of over-zealous HOAs or towns.
Just make a cute little "gate" (it doesn't even need the gate) with flowers at the end of the walkway near the sidewalk, and add in a table and some chairs (or move them out when you go to sit).
Being at the sidewalk vs being 20-40 feet away on a porch makes a huge difference.
Retired city planners never envisioned a world where we were so collectively anxious/antisocial that waving and inviting someone onto your porch 20-40 feet from the sidewalk would be considered a “sad” state of affairs. Is it the planning that’s in a sad state?
There's a rented row cottage near my office where the front fence is made from timber pallets, and appears like a bar with built-in succulent plantings. The tenants at the time used to drag out stools and sit there and chat like it was a wine bar.
We've put seats out on our front porch with a view to one day remembering to actually sit on them. So far, it's just the neighbourhood cats snoozing there when the sun hits the right spot.
This isn't really the case outside of far-flung suburbs and rural areas. Where I live, setbacks of more than 6 feet or so are rare, and front porches and stoops right off the heavily used sidewalks are the norm. We do "porch hangs" with our in-building neighbors, our kids and the kids in the neighboring buildings do sidewalk chalk together, we hang out at the local parks together, bring over friends from nearby neighborhoods, and talk with other parents and stuff.
Being a parent in a child-friendly neighborhood helps a ton with finding a community. Before we had a kid, we'd do things like welcome new neighbors with treats from our favorite bakery and our phone number if they needed anything, being generous with our time and things, etc.
I agree. In my opinion, it's another manifestation of individualism promoted by the capitalist system in the US - in urban design, in this case. Another commenter pointed out how they only see their neighbour when they both walk to or from their car at the same time. It sounds sad to me, but some might prefer it that way.
It’s mostly just fashion, no need to read into it so much with your own personal biases. Although it can serve a purpose if your house is on a busy road. It’s quieter the further you are from traffic.
When my wife and I bought our house last year, we made bags of cookies and visited every neighbor to introduce ourselves. This has paid dividends. In our neighborhood we now have friends we see weekly, people to call upon if we're out of town and need someone to check on the house, and use of two neighbors' pools!
I've got a similar situation here in Baltimore. The community I'm a part of here is like nothing I've ever experienced. We actually have a neighborhood telegram chat of ~70 people where we post about neighborhood events, parties, etc. My wife and I have a great circle of friends within this community and it led us to buy a house a few years back(before the market got all wild). We just had our first kid, and there's plenty of other newborns popping up so I'm looking forward to seeing them all grow up together!
Started doing this to a limited extent. For years I'd have never dreamed of doing this, as I did not want to feel obliged to casual acquaintances, i.e. I feared expectation of friendship that I did not want to reciprocate. Turns out most people are just happy to leave things casual. I don't mind small talk.
Related to why I've had limited friendships. I've wanted fewer, high quality ones as overshooting my social needs is uncomfortable, and I'm a creature of habit. Used to overcorrect towards solitude and that backfires, but I've had friendships in the past where I dreaded having to meet.
A little, but not terribly much. Maybe it's an age thing, I'm not that old (around 40), but I don't feel weird talking to people I don't know - I quite enjoy it. In fact, I felt rather sad since the rise of smartphones, because a lot of places I use to get small talk(barber, airport, etc), everyone is busy or feigning being busy. But when people are just out enjoying the air, they are more free to chat.
The biggest thing to put aside are first impressions/biases - ie, treating people that you wouldn't normally think you'd be friends with the same. As a lot of my neighborhood are older than we are, that was a lot of people. In a way it's like coworkers, you can't pick them, but some end up being great friends.
It also helped to have a really outgoing child. She'd go riding her bike around the neighborhood, and a few people stopped by because "the little girl on the bike said I should come meet you guys."
I will say it was easier, to me, to do so when first moving in. I personally would feel weird if I'd lived somewhere a long time and never bothered to meet anyone, then started acting more social out of nowhere. But that's probably just in my head.
It's funny, in a lot of mainland Europe (i.e. not UK, also not non-rural France IME) that's completely normal. People would rather sit at the front (even if they don't have a garden/balcony/anything at the front, just sit on the doorstep or chair in the street) with a coffee/smoke and chat to neighbours or nearest shopkeeper.
In the UK I think it's probably more common not even to use your private back garden with your own family, because the neighbours are using theirs this evening!
I'm in Boston, which is very walkable but have lived on major arteries and busy neighborhood roads. We still hang out on our porch with our neighbors all the time, as do lots of people here. It has nothing to do with vehicular traffic.
In small towns in Spain is very common, when the weather is good people just sit outside their houses with a chair, and im talking about houses without garden whatsoever, they just sit on the street, of-course its secondary streets where there are almost no cars. Normally people stops to chat, and the more closer neighbors also come to sit.
This worked for me, too (except I’m usually the one walking by rather than the one waving people over to chat).
If you don’t like small talk, a great way to interact with neighbors is to offer your help, e.g. if you see someone doing work outside, gardening, etc… offer to lend a hand!
I have a question. What kind of place do you live in? Is it houses that are apart by some distance -lawns/treelines separating y'all etc-, is it houses that are built next to each other, is it duplexes/townhomes etc?
Excellent question. I live in a neighborhood where each house has 1 acre of land, so a couple hundred feet between houses? Maybe 100-150 houses in the neighborhood. Perfectly flat, few to no big trees or shrubs that would obscure a house - it's in a desert, after all.
What's funny is I picked it because I was tired of having bad neighbors in my previous city. I told my wife this way, I can have bad neighbors, but at least they'll be bad neighbors way over there (pointing). Nearly everyone I've met in this neighborhood said that they picked it for the same reason. And they are the best neighbors I've ever had. So...try to find a neighborhood full of people who want to be away from neighbors?
I used to live in a suburb with literally 10x the density, and the only time I ever saw my immediate neighbors was if we both happened to be walking from our front doors to our cars at the same time.
As it gets very hot here, people generally only go out for walks at two times of day, which makes it easier - early morning, and evening. In a typical evening, we'd probably see 10-15 people go by. Most walking a dog or pushing a stroller around. We don't have sidewalks here - there's so little traffic everyone just walks in the street.
This question alludes to thoughts about front-yard design space. As houses get closer together, residents still want both connection and privacy. A raised area (porch, patio, etc), frequently provides this. With a raised porch that goes right to the sidewalk, a resident could move their chair close to the edge to talk to pedestrians or move chair away from sidewalk toward house for less talking.
The playborhood people did a similar thing to GP: "Mike also made another simple-but-radical move: In a neighborhood in which front yards are for admiration only, Mike installed a picnic table, close to the sidewalk, where he and his family often sat, so that people walking by would have to talk to them." https://archive.is/uLa77#selection-749.0-749.254
Maybe I'm inferring a subtext here, but I think you're asking about how environment facilitates this. It's definitely true that homes with lawns make this easier than say apartments. Part of this is that you're more likely to spend time outside owning a home as you need to simply work on the yard. But the main causal factor is likely just seeing people frequently. Like one reason it was easier to make friends in school was simply because you sat next to people and see them every day. That builds relationships. The same thing happens with work, you spend 8+ hrs a day there with the same people. Some businesses try to curb this, which is curbing natural human interactions and others encourage it too much which feels forced. Weirdly the most significant factor to building relationships is spending time with people. More so than things like religion (correlates because time in church), politics, or other things that we think are major barriers and encourages us to turn to bubbles.
Right, I currently live in a townhouse and as the other posters posted, the only time we see our neighbors is when they get out of the car and go inside.
On the other hand, when I used to live in a single-floor-only apartment complex (more 'two apartments in a single building' built together), I used to interact with my neighbors quite a lot.
I do eventually want to move to a State where there is less brown and more green (arizona rn - so the prospect of sitting outside isn't that great during summer evenings), and where places are a bit more spaced apart. I like my privacy, but would still like to have okay-ish relationship with neighbors.
This is just brilliant! It makes all the difference in a neighbourhood to have folks who seem to genuinely be friendly and caring staying very close by. My wife and I try to do this in neighbourhoods where we stay without being intrusive or too chatty. Works wonders.
I did just this a few days ago, it's incredible how many people will come up and ask to pet your dog. Some will keep moving quickly, others will talk about their own animals, and some will drop little hints about themselves to further a conversation. Aside from everything fun about a companion, it's really is a fantastic feeling to be able to see someones eyes light up, you're brightening up their day!
I'm not the person you're replying to, but we did this in an LA suburb.
Among other things that have resulted from it:
One of our neighbors invites everyone over for 4th of July every year. We have a block party where we block off the street once or twice per year. Neighbors have been over for backyard parties, my wife goes to birthday lunches with the wives on the street, and there's a giant text thread where people ask for help/etc for things.
During the first year of covid, we did a special neighborhood Halloween, where everyone on the block put out bags of candy for neighborhood kids to go house to house and pick up.
> where everyone on the block put out bags of candy for neighborhood kids to go house to house and pick up.
Is this usual in the region, or perhaps did I misunderstand you? Don't the kids usually walk up to the doors and ring, and then you personally hand out candy to them?
During covid lots of people didn't want to do a normal trick-or-treat.
So we arranged something in our immediate neighborhood - about 20 houses - to create a bag of candy for each kid in those houses. We left them on the lawn and each family with kids took their turn going around to each house to get their bag of candy.
So it was less "go to random people's houses" and more "let's get together and make sure halloween isn't cancelled".
Which is kinda funny as my wife hates it and wants to move because gardening here is really hard-to-impossible, but she doesn't want to give up our great neighborhood, so we're at an impasse.
Gardening should be possible in the southwest, but you may have to utilize greenhouses or whatever the opposite of one is. Much of the "desert" will bloom if you pour enough water on it (and drip irrigation does wonders).
Right, and we're used to that style of gardening (and tropical, we've lived all over). Here the main problems are that the soil is completely garbage, it never rains, and there's too much sun. She's had limited success planting things in large bags full of garden soil, watering every day, and building a system of shades from the afternoon sun - it's just a big hassle compared to gardening in a lot of the eastern side of the US.
Yep. The first can be repaired, the second compensated for, but the third is the killer. You either have to vastly move the growing season (growing in winter seems strange) or you have to learn new tricks that don't "feel right" like growing things up against a building to get shade half the day.
Composting can be a great way to improve the soil, but it takes years to really get going. But if you're going to be there for years ...
And maybe you could even get "donations" from neighbors! I know one person who setup compost jars for her neighbors to get more compostables.
Gardening isn't easy to get started. Most people end up living in houses that have poor soil (fill dirt) and dont realize how much you need to water to have success. Automatic irrigation with sprinklers and timers is critical otherwise things will die while you go on vacation. Your gardening season is probably offset from the rest of the country with a dead zone in the July/august when you get heat kill.
My wife for example likes to water for 5-10 seconds and that basically does nothing, you have to water significantly more as you need to put down 1/2" a day or more during the peak. It would take forever to do that with just a garden house and the pots you have can probably barely hold the water required to last a day. Reference https://earlywarning.usgs.gov/ssebop/modis for you area.
Also if you aren't buying compost by the truck load you probably aren't buying enough. For the first run you need like 6+ yards to fill up a couple beds, and the next year that will decompose to half and you will need to fill up again. Spend a bit more buy the good stuff (ask online whats good locally), the city waste compost is not great stuff has plastic and shit you will never get out plus it holds water poorly due to all the filler they add.
Thanks, I love the idea of living in this kind of a neighborhood. I have been living in an apartment building for close to a decade now and I don't know a single person on my floor or in my building. I don't even know who my neighbor is.
Volunteering. And before you brush it out skeptically, like "oh yeah right, those people", it really doesn't have to be anything you don't care about.
I volunteer at a boat house on the city lake nearby, just putting kids on pedal boats and kayaks. I don't even call it volunteering, I just love kayaks and water.
It's amazing how your perspective of time and people and service shifts, when you spend some time being "in service" to other people, instead of anxiously counting hours that you're being paid for — or could've been paid for — and maximizing "receiving".
I've confirmed for myself time and time again the advice I've read: if you have a busy life and want to increase a feeling that you have more time? — try spending your time for free, for example, volunteering.
I wish this wasn't brushed off, but when I suggest it, frequently, as a scientifically proven method of improving happiness, well, it gets brushed off. I guess it's really difficult to relate just how much it can improve your life. Some of the highlights of my entire life have been coaching 3rd/4th grade girls basketball at a YMCA. Yeah, it's a lot of work at the time, but the memories are priceless, and the benefit to the kids is definite - they tell me, years (and sometimes years and years - with a baby in their arms) later.
Definitely! I like gardening. I started volunteering in a community garden, growing stuff for people who need more food. I like the people I work with, and I enjoy growing vegetables on a bigger scale than I can do in my own garden. And they make tea and cake, and often we get to take home some spare seedlings or whatever.
It's really great, it doesn't feel anything like "free labour", it mostly feels like hanging out with some nice people and doing a fun activity.
"Community garden" isn't quite the right term. It's actually primarily a food rescue organisation (takes unsold produce etc from supermarkets and redistributes it to poor people) that also grows a bit of their own produce as well, which is the bit I help with.
I happened to be at a kind of mini festival where there was a stand actively recruiting for volunteers. They seemed pretty surprised and happy when I immediately said yes.
The actual "community gardens" that I know of generally are on the model of members each have their own plot, which they tend. I don't know how one volunteers in a space like that, but maybe there are opportunities.
+1 to this; some of the best people I've met in my city are from the local DIY bike co-op. I started out walking in to check it out and see if they had any good bikes, and now I open the shop and teach bike repair there once a week with several friends I wouldn't have otherwise met.
I can definitely agree. I used to be very skeptical about how fun or healing volunteering could be. I started volunteering at an animal shelter and beyond being incredibly relaxing - I love animals - it's nice to switch from trying to optimize my career, code, education to just using my hands to help take care of something and meet new people.
My anxiety has gone down a lot since I started doing this and I was able to meet some new people. Strongly recommend trying to volunteer with something you care about
Definitely this. Volunteering is an awesome way to develop community. I struggled to make friends in a new community where I was working remotely for years (pre-COVID). I finally really started connected with people my second season being involved with a youth sports program. 6 years later, we just had 50 people over to our house. 30 of them were connected to that sports program in some way.
My dad met his best friend volunteering with the local soccer league in my hometown. The story I heard years later was that my mom insisted to him that he do something to get out of the house, and two decades later they were still the best of friends—and, in fact, had moved to the same overseas city around the same time.
I intend to try some form of this once I have more leisure time. I'm a parent and I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future unless it involves my kids.
Fortunately, coaching sports for children begins about age 6 in the US and continues through 16+... so there is plenty available.
Scouting (girls or boys, in spite of BSA's recent settlement) continues to add a lot of value to kids' lives, and ime attract many people with a strong moral compass.
Robotics - the FIRST program. Mechanical, EE, or SWE experiences can let you work with teenagers in a very impactful way. This would not require as much of a time commitment as a sport or scouting group.
See if you can look for (or create) opportunities for your kids to practice doing service, and support them. It's an important part of life, like exercise or intellectual growth.
It's almost impossibly easy to find volunteer activities if you have kids, everything from daycare to school to field trips to soccer, they're almost always quite open to volunteer help.
Yeah, personaly I started volunteering when I realised I had a surfeit of free time. I ended with a nearby charity, tutoring high school kids from less privileged background; not necessarily the most fun activity, but at least I got to keep my basic mathematics fresh.
But seeing how much time kids take, I understand not being able to do that now; most of the people in the charity where I volunteer are retired.
One of my obstacles: it's a stones throw away from a retail/service job.
Okay not really. But what I mean is, the way people respect you. My obstacle is my fear of being treated the way I was 15 years ago when I had to work retail before my professional career. In that sense I'm HAPPY that I work behind a computer screen. But I do think it's made me very isolated, introverted, and lonely.
One important difference is that in retail, you had to deal with it, or risk losing your job / getting written up. In volunteering, if someone is being a jerk to you then you can call them out on it. And I think it is less likely you’ll run into a jerk when you’re volunteering. It’s not like working at Walmart.
Wife and I volunteer for our kids school, and also the kids weekend sports (Soccer, Cricket).
We've made a lot of friends through that and because it's all local a strong sense of community between all the families that get involved.
By accident: I went to this boat house a few times just to rent a kayak, and when I was chatting with the person who runs it she asked if I'd want to come volunteer on a weekend — and I did.
People there are the most eclectic mix of backgrounds: the owner is a retired coastal guard, she was in Olympic games in her 20s as a windsurfer. Her partner is a retired engineer, who is helping fixing boats when something breaks. Some local kids and teenagers would come volunteer. Our customers are local families and tourists, enjoying their weekend in the park on the lake. And of course a micro-community of retirees chatting with the boat house owner, sharing gossip and their life stories, bringing ice cream for kids and getting their afternoon sun.
It's been more than a year since I started volunteering there, and it transformed my experience beyond any expectations, filling my days with sun, people, stories, little adventures and camaraderie.
I think volunteering gets brushed off because in many places it is just a pure scam. The organizations collect money and then charge volunteers exorbitant sums for the privilege of working for free.
I looked at volunteering about 15 years ago and from what I saw then, I have never entertained the thought again.
Seems a pretty overly strong statement, no? Is there any research in to percentage of non profit efforts that are/aren't legitimate? Can you elaborate on "what I saw then" that made you think it was indicative of the entire idea of volunteer work?
I have had the opposite experience. All the best people in the world I've met have been volunteering for one thing or another. As a young tech guy I've provided general tech support to as many institutions around me as need it and I've never once felt anyone was anything but earnest. Feels unfair to write so much off. I hope you find an organization you would feel comfortable volunteering for again. It really does provide immense benefit to the mind/heart
> Can you elaborate on "what I saw then" that made you think it was indicative of the entire idea of volunteer work?
Yes, I was looking to do international volunteer work and used the internet to search for opportunities, since I knew nobody with experience. Fully willing to pay for my own travels of course. All I could find was programs where you had to pay thousands of dollars, your own food and your own board in order to volunteer. For a few weeks.
That is sadly as far as I got before dismissing the concept as a scam.
I decided to do another similar search right now, more than a decade later. Still seems like the same thing and this is what I get from opening all the search results from the first page:
"Volunteer Shark Conservation in Fiji for Teenagers
Price: $4,470 USD for 2 weeks"
"Volunteer with Children in Fiji
Price: $2,470 USD for 1 week"
"Volunteer Community Work in Fiji for Teenagers
Price: $3,045 USD for 2 weeks"
"Childcare & Community Volunteer Work in Peru for Teenagers
Price: $3,645 USD for 2 weeks"
"Affordable fees from $525 for 1 week"
"Volunteer in Africa with Agape
completely affordable for our volunteers.
Programmes from £675"
"Teach English abroad - Costa Rica
USD 339 - That’s just USD 48 per day*..."
"Volunteer to assist in improving physical and mental health for women, girls and communities in Ghana, West Africa.
Special offer!
Get up to 25% off
1 week £ 1,645"
"Help children and families overcome severe poverty
Inspire and guide youth to productive futures as a volunteer in Peru.
1 week $2956"
Honestly, I don't care for these grifters and scammers. Good luck to them.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of eager and able-bodied youths every year who would have loved to volunteer and help their fellow man (or animal), but could only find these scams and decided against doing such a thing. Better just get drunk in the hostel, at least that won't set them back thousands of dollars. Consider the loss.
I took a look at the United Nations. They offer two spots for youth volunteering: have to be 18-26 years old and with a bachelors degree and relevant experience. The volunteering spots are both in Mogadishu in Somalia. The description doesn't have any details about cost, so I guess these are actually free.
Perhaps you and the other posters are talking past each other. For me the word “volunteering” conjures thoughts of spending some weekends doing things for local charities within easy driving distance of my home, not paying to travel overseas. I suspect most Americans at least would see it my way, which is why the other posters are incredulous at your seeming dismissal of “most” volunteer organizations.
Very interesting. Sorry you had such an unfortunate experience. I'm realizing now how lucky I was to have been introduced to all the groups I have been by real members of the local groups. With the type of opportunity you were looking for makes a lot of sense why you found what you did. I have not touched any large scale international groups (couple branches of larger orgs were just ok) really and maybe that's the difference. Either way, I'm sorry you weren't able to find volunteer work. It has helped me immensely and I hope one day you can benefit from it should circumstance allow.
>You're assuming every place and organization on the planet is like the one you volunteer at
Not really, but I did, perhaps naively, think at least a better percentage as earnest than the other commenter was giving credit for. You're right though, after reading his detailed response I do realize now I've been very lucky in how I came to do what I do with who I do it with.
^ This sometimes occurs with international volunteering programs ("voluntourism").
Lots of pitfalls and sad stories in that space. Most of the other comments here are discussing helping out with small local orgs which might not be what carlosjobim had in mind.
I got in with a new "startup" community bicycle hub. They were just getting off the ground so it was pretty chaotic at first. Now it's humming along and, from a selfish perspective, my mental health is much better spending a couple hours a week volunteering with them.
I work at a sports program that charges volunteers, but that’s because it’s set up as a coop. Everyone has to donate time and money to use the facilities. The fee is really small compared to what you get to, 1/5 of comparable facilities.
It’s an amazing program, too. No one involved would ever call it a scam IMO.
This is a bizarre account, and completely dissimilar to anything I've ever heard of or experienced. Any specific organizations you can recall that engaged in this practice?
I'm sorry, but this is an absurd statement that might apply in some extremely narrow niche of "volunteering". But volunteering is a very broad activity that happens in all kinds of organisations, and even without any organisation at all.
It's sort of like you got food poisoning from eating Mexican food once, and from then on, decided to only ever eat burgers for the rest of your life.
A fitness community.
This could be either a BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) place or even a CrossFit gym. I've done both and while I'm not here to promote CrossFit, I am here to say that a group fitness class is awesome for meeting other people and finding a community of people that do something similar as you, but have absolutely nothing to do with your work.
I workout with Police officers, Lawyers, Doctors, Dentists, Stay at home moms, Accountants, Students, other tech folks, etc, you name it they're all there.
There's something about "shared misery" that brings people together and builds a comrade. That turns into a community where you start to hang out with them out of the gym/etc.
This happens at any group fitness place where the same people show up at the same time to do the same thing. It's natural, organic and freeing.
I've moved across the country 3 times now and this is how I integrated into each area I moved into.
Yup. I joined a climbing gym. Hanging out with a lot of people both older and younger than you is refreshing. Not much shared misery though when it comes to climbing, always had a blast.
Also came here to say climbing (specifically bouldering). I moved to a smaller city in the south last fall and within a month had a handful of new friends through the gym. Pretty soon got in with the crew of folks who worked there, started climbing outside with some of them and eventually ended up working part time at the gym as a side thing.
That being said, I think there's something about the community at this particular gym that is special. I climbed for years at gyms in Chicago and never had anything close to the level of community I found in a couple months down here. I'm sure my attitude / situation had something to do with it, as I went in this time with the intention to make friends and had a lot of free time to be able to spend at the gym; but the gym / community makes a huge difference. Look for smaller / community focused gyms if you can or try out a few different gyms to see if you click with any particular group of people. Try to go to events the gyms put on and be a familiar face.
I think that - unlike many gyms and other fitness communities - it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.
It's hard to have an ego when just about everyone gets outclimbed by 12yo girls, and the best climber in the world looks like someone who got fired from a big tech company because he looked too geeky: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web16f/newswire-ondra-dawn-wall (and I love that even he failed to replicate Lynn Hill's "free climb The Nose in 24 hours" - apparently even Ondra needs to practice Changing Corners).
Also, bouldering in particular is such an intellectual pursuit. It's problem solving under physical pressure, and forces you to think hard about the geometry of your body and how weight works etc.
> I think that - unlike many gyms and other fitness communities - it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.
You know, people say this a lot about "typical" weight lifting focused gyms, but I've found nothing but the opposite. There are certainly some people who are in there that are judgy (the are everywhere) but the vast majority are either there to do their workouts and leave, or are very friendly. And I've done most of my training in gyms in Manhattan and Paris, two places not known for friendly people.
Completely agree. I lift regularly and do not look like a typical gym junkie but have found most people are very friendly - even in NY (burbs) where you expect a certain get out of my face attitude.
Also - weight training is also a highly technical problem-oriented discipline. You can do it for years and still not have things working the right way. The techniques are evolving as well. So - lots of problem solving and discovery.
FYI - one of my favorite sites of all time and certainly the technical view on things: exrx.net
Totally agree. I think this is just the insecurity of the person who thinks this.
If you go to the same gym you are already in-grouped. It is the insecurity of the new person who would think they are out-grouped.
Meatheads love new lifters. No one showed up at their first gym 230lbs and ripped. Even the biggest guy in the gym can relate to being the intimidated new lifter.
The only difference I would think between a gym with weights and a climbing gym is that the people at the climbing gym look less intimidating.
100% agreed. I'm in Boston, and same thing. And I've been into bodybuilding for around 15 years now, dad was a bodybuilder and gym owner, etc. and there are still guys younger (and older) than me who are way bigger than me, and everyone tends to be either in the zone and focused, or really cool friendly people.
The people who talk shit about those people are generally insecure themselves and projecting their inner monologues on them - and the thing is, all the experienced people have been there and done that. Breaking through that is hard, but so rewarding.
> I think that - unlike many gyms and other fitness communities - it's very welcoming to non-conformistist and people who don't look like typical gym junkies.
In my experience you see this quite a bit in BJJ as well. I wouldn't say it's nearly as diverse as climbing, but it's definitely not all young athletic men. My son's classes were about 4:1 boys vs girls, and the adult classes had fewer women. But I got to experience being choked out by a 70 year old man and a 16 year old wizard on the mats. There were all sorts of fitness ranges, but typically those improved rather quickly for the folks who stuck with it. We only had a couple guys who I'd put in the religiously works out strength category. Those guys are legit scary when you know they have the same skills as the skinny 70 year old who just put you through your paces and can also just physically twist you into a pretzel on top of it just through raw strength. All were super friendly and inviting to new folks though.
My experience may be a bit dated (late '00s), but from the few times I tried climbing (and from interacting with the climbing-friends of people I knew from other activities), I found most of them to be standoffish, and a little bit too "proud" of their chosen hobby, as if climbing was somehow a noble endeavor, and that participating in it showed that you were of good breeding or something.
I certainly have no basis in painting all climbers with this brush, but this was my experience, and I found it to be pretty bizarre. Completely turned me off to making climbing a hobby of my own.
It's weird, I have done quite a bit of top-roping and bouldering, but never really found it conducive to making friendships. Or maybe I'm just not the right demographic (early 40s, male). Definitely I chat to people about specific problems, but it never really seems to go beyond that.
I’m an early 30s male and I’m in your shoes as well. I found it to not be a very conducive space. I think it does vary a lot. I’ve only climbed significantly in NYC and SF. I’ve done some in PDX but not regularly.
I didn’t find any of the gyms I was at to be very “community” oriented. I think the personal experience depends a hell of a lot on how good of a climber you are and how you look. Typical tech looking guys were universally hated in all the gyms I went to - often enough with it being verbally said out loud to make sure they knew for sure. (Even if said people were doing nothing special)
There’s some weird shit going on in the US - tbh. Nerd hate is back on the rise.
Where did you climb in NYC, just curious? I've climbed here for a couple years, and found it to be really welcoming and inclusive of people from all backgrounds, tech included.
I mean, if you show up as a "[stereo]typical tech-looking guy" anywhere in America you'll get some disdain, in the same way that looking like a wall street guy would have gotten you disdain in 2008 +/- 10 years.
Maybe... don't flaunt the fact that you work in tech? It's a space that values humility, and tech is (stereotypically) anti-correlated with humility. I've never really felt uncomfortable for it, speaking personally.
As to the friendship discussion, it's kind of on your charisma and the other person's acceptance of it to move the conversation from bouldering to life in general, but it's a nice open window that I see swinging in the wind every time I go! Just don't wear headphones, and keep yourself approachable and supportive.
> Maybe... don't flaunt the fact that you work in tech?
I never brought it up nor do I wear FAANG apparel or anything that would indicate such. It would be brought up in conversations among other people that you'd hear. People were always bitching about people in tech going to climbing gyms.
I went to Vital in Brooklyn mostly. I did metrorock in Brooklyn as well. Considered some others but that's where friends wanted me to go.
> As to the friendship discussion, it's kind of on your charisma and the other person's acceptance of it to move the conversation from bouldering to life in general, but it's a nice open window that I see swinging in the wind every time I go! Just don't wear headphones, and keep yourself approachable and supportive.
This comes back to the "how you look" part of my post. People who are good looking tend to have no real issues in this part of life. Become part of the ugly group - you'll find this hurdle much larger. Especially in large places like SF and NYC. Looking like a nerd is much more about your physiognomy, frame, etc. It has very little to do with what you wear.
That makes sense! For context, Vital is a climbing gym where Google employees are arguably the target demographic. It’s a strange, Equinox-y vibe.
Metrorock Brooklyn is in a neighborhood that used to be working class, then was basically an art colony, and is now being converted into high-income housing (it’s been poster child region for gentrification in the last decade). So the resentment of “the other” and fear of change is in the water there, to some extent. Any anti-tech or anti-nerd sentiment is people bringing their outside-the-gym anxieties into the gym, I don’t think it’s representative of climbing generally.
That being said, NYC is one big mixing pot of gentrification. You’d probably have to go to Cliffs Valhalla or something to not hear it as a topic of conversation at all.
Re “how you look”, yeah it’s a truth. To be fair, being in shape and happy are two things that are strongly correlated with frequent climbing, and they help your appearance to others in equal measure. People who are good looking do have issues here when they’re in a bout of depression or anxiety —- nobody wants to talk to the sad or angry person. But you’re right, we’re wired to find symmetric and skinny people approachable, and that’s to our detriment. Vital especially is probably not the first gym I’d go to, if I were feeling self-conscious of appearances.
Oh no quite the contrary, I think we agree! :) Sorry, my comments on Vital came off differently based on the context of the paragraph. My guess is the GP's comment on being made to feel uncomfortable happened at MetroRock – it would be really ironic for a Vital person to say something unwelcoming towards tech, because techies are such a big component of their community. :)
By "strange", I meant that it's not a "typical"/"traditional" climbing gym – in that it's explicitly aimed at the top of market with their pricing, network, and amenities. Although, to be fair, it's a literally-dying breed in NYC so there isn't much to compare it to, locally.
I was saying I wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable there if I were self-conscious of appearances, because it's a relatively affluent milieu and setting. I do personally feel comfortable there myself, was just trying to empathize.
Happy to see there's meetups – it's a great place for that sort of thing.
I mean, practically speaking most people in climbing gyms are humble and open to others. But there are always individuals in any positive environment who will over-extrapolate the good elements into gatekeepiness and virtue signaling.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge a community based on its vocal negative elements. As you see other people in this thread commenting, many of whom presumably work in tech, they haven’t had any issues with it.
I think many people generally have issues with tech companies, and some subset of that group boil it down to people and act accordingly. Some of them climb and bring it to the gym. Climbing culture has counterculture roots, which is more correlated with the view, but climbing is a pretty mainstream sport at this point.
I feel like indoor bouldering lends itself a lot better to make random friendships. Attempts at any given problem tend to be a lot quicker, there's often multiple people looking at that same problem, and there's the resting between attempts. Because bouldering problems are usually just a few moves, it's a lot easier to strike up a conversation to compare beta.
Yeah, I definitely have plenty of conversations about beta, etc, which is nice. But the closest any of those have ever come to turning into a friendship was someone mentioning the specific days and times they climbed and suggesting I try to synchronise.
I think it depends a lot on you and your level of outgoing friendliness and openness to striking up deeper conversations with strangers.
I read a lot of the responses here and couldn't see myself making friends in those sorts of situations (and have indeed been in some of them, without results), just because I'm not that particular kind of social to make it work.
I joined a rugby team that is open to everyone but highlights lgbt inclusivity in sport. We practice twice a week, have games, and have other events. I've made so many good friends from the team it's hard to keep up with them all.
> There's something about "shared misery" that brings people together and builds a comrade. That turns into a community where you start to hang out with them out of the gym/etc.
Agreed; my outside work community IS my martial arts community. There are the brief moments while waiting that you end up chatting with your partners. Eventually you learn what they do, if they have kids, etc. and since you see them weekly you often times get to share their experiences. When I was in college, it was pretty regular to ask the other people what they were up to that weekend. Next thing you know, you're grabbing food, going out for beers, seeing Marvel movies (personal experience there), or other things.
The shared misery scares people away, but you end up becoming invested in your partners' progress as well. When new students join you also get to serve as a peer mentor because just 6 months ago YOU were in their shoes.
As a counter argument I recently heard, some people dislike the hierarchal structure of martial arts. I can understand, but at least from my experience I enjoy it.
My experience with the hierarchy stuff was a lot worse in "traditional" martial arts versus something like BJJ. You've got a lot of "fake" black belts in TKD in part because it's mostly forms work and not really tested. Some sparing matches go hard, but that's rarely the case as you don't really want to be kicking with full force with your sparing partner. So the skill vs skill tests are much more limited.
In BJJ, you're typically going to be rolling with full effort. You're going to be put in a real choke hold and you're really going to go to sleep if you don't tap. We don't slam the joint locks the way you might see in a tournament setting with money on the line, but a slow and safe arm bar will work as well if you've actually got control of the limb. So for me the ranking in BJJ feels more aligned to actual ability to me than my experience with TKD did because you're getting a real test of your skills every class. The sorting feels more natural and everyone can clearly see the differences in skill play out daily.
You respect your classmates and seniors more because of your experiences rolling with them and less because it's demanded by the belt system and and built in by tradition.
Everything you said is aligned with my experience in training. BJJ is pure pressure testing of what you are learning and it is as close to fighting without striking and other dirty tactics like eye gouging. I have done traditional martial arts and it was not as close to experience under-pressure training. Also, I find myself in autopilot as well as in a focused, calm state when rolling at times.
I think in a real fight situation, someone who trains would be more calm to deal and, most likely, deescalate the situation because we are accustom to intense situations and our egos are tested so much that we are indifferent to silly challenges that can be fatal in some situations.
I've had the same experience with the BJJ community. Very positive and welcoming, and an incredible sport for training the mind as well as the body.
Some people get turned off by the behavior of certain fans of UFC but in my experience the groups of people who are starting fights in pubs and people who are actually showing up to intense physical training on a regular basis are mutually exclusive.
To be clear to folks about this - both BJJ and CrossFit have a community element to them. (Especially CrossFit as far as I’ve seen)
I cannot say that is true of everything else. Yoga has no community for most classes you’ll take out there. Same is true of Pilates. A lot of other fitness classes you’d take that are maybe doing HIIT or whatever - it’s gonna be the same show-up and immediately leave type of crowd.
CrossFit and some other fitness activities are very intentional about having a community and making one if it doesn’t exist. That’s why CrossFit was often referred to as a cult. It’s got a large community vibe.
> There's something about "shared misery" that brings people together and builds a comrade.
It's been scientifically proven that this is the way to create strong bonds with people. It's why we are easier to get close with former classmates and co-workers.
My fitness group is the rec basketball league that I participate.
I second that. I do a 5:15 am class on weekdays even during the summer when I don't have to take kids to school. My wife pushes me to sleep in a little and do a later morning class but I would miss my 5:15 crew so I keep getting up at 4:30 a.m. I love the community in CrossFit.
Is there any eh video (short-docu style) on CrossFit?
All I know about it is that people make fun of it. And they do weird pull-ups that I don't want to do. But I am attracted to the community aspect because I've also heard about that.
Like most things, "dont knock it till you have tried it". You never have to do something you are either uncomfortable doing or are unable to do; and there always progressions for movements that might be difficult for you. For example, many overhead movements are difficult for me but the coaches will always work with you to find something you can do that will still be challenging and achieve the goal of the workout.
Try lifting things inappropriately for a few months while telling everyone how great CrossFit is because it focuses on “real world strength”. Eventually mess up your back and never mention CrossFit again.
It doesn't even have to be group fitness. I've made great friends at traditional gyms (I train more in a bodybuilding style) just showing up and training.
Reading the comments, I notice a lot of posters seek out tech communities. While I get why a nerd would want to do that, I have a different tendency. Most of my outside-of-work activities are actually not tech related. Sure, I have a bunch of private projects to work on, but I usually do that in single player mode. I picked up a number of "also working in tech" friends over time, and going out with them is still fun and interesting. I also enjoyed the social time at various conferences, meeting likeminded people. But I don't want to spend my after-work-time and weekends with tech folks by default. That is, simply put, too much of one thing. Stepping out of tech is what keeps the dayjob interesting.
I find that sticking with nerdy hobbies, at least where I live, also keeps you in awkward male dominated spaces; MTG, Warhammer, hacker spaces, arcade/video game things, all men.
leaving SF was a godsend. I was tired of everyone being in tech and it's nice interacting with people that are actually diverse and don't all work in the same industry and have the same mindsets.
That's the saddest part about people who moved to SF for tech. They moved here, interacted with their coworkers, who are tech workers, they found roommates through their company, so their roommates are also tech workers, and so all their friends are also tech workers, all the people at parties they go to are tech workers. So it's no surprise all they know of San Francisco is tech. There's more to San Francisco than tech, but if that's all someone ever sees of the city, it's no wonder they drew those conclusions!
Just like I'm glad the people who hated the city left because Covid finally gave them an excuse, I'm also glad the people that failed to see the beautiful wonderful city underneath the moneied veneer of tech are gone as well. It saddens me that the two cities didn't mange to meet and melt in America's mixing pot, but, ah, that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
As someone who moved 20 years ago to the bay area, and later SF proper, for a tech job, I totally agree with that. While the majority of my friends here are still in STEM-related fields (at least they're not all traditionally "tech"), it's very important to get out of the tech bubble early and often to see what else is out there.
Still here post-COVID, and similarly happy that many of the people who hated it here and were only here for their jobs are gone now. Granted, I don't love the city like I once did, but I still find it satisfying to live here, despite the cost of living.
> I notice a lot of posters seek out tech communities. While I get why a nerd would want to do that, I have a different tendency.
Absolutely! I genuinely enjoy writing code at work, but I literally never do it in my spare time. I already spend a greater number of waking hours in front of my computer than I do with my friends and family (or playing music, or mountain biking, or...).
I do spend a lot of my spare time writing code for free, but I think a healthy, well-rounded person should get outside one genre of activity at least some of the time!
I’m not in SF, so maybe easier for me, but most of my good friends are outside of my industry.
On one hand, it might remove opportunities for networking/progression. On the other hand, I want to get out of my work-self when I’m off the clock and this is better.
I don’t want to talk about work when I’m not at work and although work topics still come up with non-tech folks, it’s easier to not end up in a deluge of techy stuff. And it’s often way more interesting to talk about work when someone is not doing anything closely related to my career (at least for me).
My wife and I sit in the cry room with out little kids, and have gotten to know the people that are there with us. It's gotten to the point where we have started recognizing these people all over town. Very cozy and nice.
I'll say: having kids is obviously itself incredibly meaningful; as an additional benefit: kids are a fantastic ice-breaker/opener for other families with kids.
When my first child was born, he didn't cry and had to spend the beginning of his life in the NICU. When he first cried, after having his life saved by doctors, so did I.
I love the sound of crying babies. It means they're okay enough to cry.
I don’t have any children and don’t want any. I wish people didn’t trap me in metal tubes for 12+ hours with their crying children. My brain hasn’t been reprogrammed to enjoy it- actually the opposite; it’s a non-stop car alarm.
Maybe buy earplugs or noise-cancelling headphones? The parent probably doesn't want their child to be crying either, but sometimes there's not much to be done.
Bose QuietComfort 35 with white noise playing on them should block anyone not yelling right at you. Bought mine used after some extensive research, but maybe there's something better nowadays. If you added foam earplugs and music to that you'd be deaf.
Idk about AirPods in particular, but you could try layering good PNC earmuffs over your ANC earbuds? I doubt you'll get it <10%, but should still help cut a lot of the high-frequency crying.
I don't have kids. I'm ok with the crying babies - there's very little anyone can do about it, and they're already doing it. I'm much less ok with poorly behaved kids bouncing around, yelling, etc.
Our church has a play room with a TV tuned to the livestream. My toddler can make it to the sermon and then heads for the play room. Honestly, it's pretty nice to kick back in a comfy room and play with my daughter while still attending worship.
I live in Seattle, Cap Hill. Before I moved here and when I first moved here (from London) people told me that Seattle was a terrible place to make friends and build a community. My experience has been exactly the opposite; this has been the best place I've ever lived for making friends and building community, especially as a sober person.
The order of importance, I have found community here in:
- Swing dancing, both classes and going to shows with live jazz bands to dance (I was never a dancer before moving here)
- Lifting (there are great locally owned gyms in this neighborhood)
- Getting to know people who own or work at local businesses
- People who have similar tech interests, that I meet from a mixture of the previous 3 places
Finally, and I think this is a really important thing to do, I try to organize events, either in my home or in any one of the local parks in the summer, where friends I've made in different parts of my life all get together and also get to know each other
> Finally, and I think this is a really important thing to do, I try to organize events
This is generally the thing Seattle is missing -- people that organize and then tell people to show up at X place on Y date. Most of the time, it's a million people that all say they would love to hang out more, but nobody ever makes solid plans.
I think it depends on more factors than just location. I am older and live on the eastside of the Seattle metro area, and our neighbors have been generally unfriendly. When we first moved in we invited a number of neighbors to a backyard BBQ, and afterwards, none ever reached back out to us, and even worse, another became extremely aggressive towards us. It's been over four years since.
We're thinking of moving, but housing prices are incredibly high and volatile.
I moved from Bellevue to Seattle proper because I found the neiborhoods there to be insufferable. Like you mentioned: no desire to socialize, hostility to any kind of group activity, serious mistrust of neighbors, etc. There is a reason there are almost no neighborhood bars or “social” areas in Bellevue, just tall office buildings and sprawling McMansions.
Seattle proper is much more pro-social and I probably doubled my happiness when I moved across the bridge.
Swing It Seattle has dances with live bands in Cap Hill at least once a week, and they also have multiple classes going on at any given time. Really pleasant environment, great people, can't recommend it enough!
+1 for this. No church is perfect, but my experience is that church is a place where I can go to gather with people from diverse backgrounds, perspectives, and needs and come together on some common points: we need more than ourselves to make it through life, we need to be kinder, and we should serve each other.
I have seen my congregation rally around new parents, people with mental health conditions, and other such common struggles. Serving others is a great way to feel that you are part of a community. Church can be a great framework for that kind of thing.
While I totally understand why you'd find community there, I am surprised that you'd consider Church to be a place to find people of diverse backgrounds. That hasn't at all been my experience
My church has one couple where both spouses were born in the same country.
We span many past religions and world views. Poor backgrounds and wealthy.
But we all now hold a very similar world view. So we don't have the kind of diversity some people think of. We're not defined by our pasts as much as we are by our common beliefs.
Yes, I'm a practicing Catholic and attend Church often with my fiancee.
Everyone is welcome to even attend Mass (they just don't receive communion) and participate in activities that we organize. We also have many support groups for elderly, grieving families, young adults and so on.
Additionally, if you want to do volunteer work, contact the closest Catholic Church. You can join pretty much all of the events regardless of your background.
We are not some "exclusive" membership, the doors are open.
This is one of those things where when you realize it, it's almost embarrassing how obvious it should have been.
The Church is 2000 years old. It has outlasted basically any other institution that has ever existed in the history of humanity. The things The Church encourages are:
1) Building families
2) Building communities
3) Using these things to make the world a more loving place through volunteerism
It should not be surprising that this is a good place to make friends and connect with your community.
Church is great for this specifically because it's a social group that spends all its time espousing the idea that all men are created equal, therefore ALL backgrounds are welcome. The most important piece of social mobility is knowing those outside of your economic circle.
Example: You need a job, you know your great buddy Bob has a spot that you could hop into, he knows you pretty well and that you're not an idiot, so he hires you on the spot into a job you never would've had the qualification for otherwise.
The issue I have with churches, specifically Catholic and other large ones, is belonging to and participating in an organization that has collectively done so many bad things to humans just doesn't sit well with me. Then there's the element of collecting money and hoarding it and its a huge turn off.
You may say "the doors are open" and in fact they may be in your local church but official membership has requirements, rules to follow and some larger churches also are very much opposed to equality for all humans. I don't believe the Catholic church (or other denominations of Christianity, or Mormon church) would allow a LGBT couple to officially join.
I understand that yours and others experiences don't reflect the entirety of ~1700 years of the organized state religion of the Roman Empire. When we're talking about finding community outside of work, I find large churches will have a facade of community but in practice are not as welcoming to all.
> I don't believe the Catholic church (or other denominations of Christianity, or Mormon church) would allow a LGBT couple to officially join.
That's not entirely true. No legitimate catholic church would prohibit lgbtq couples from joining. The more conservative ones definitely would not condone their lifestyle, however, and probably none would agree to marry them. So if you are lgbtq you should probably just give some serious thought into more liberal denominations.
I was pointing out an obvious example of a facade of "welcoming all" from the community (would not prohibit people from joining, anyone can show up and volunteer) vs. really welcoming all where anyone could be full members through all of their ceremonies like baptism, confirmation, marriage, etc. or even allowing anyone to pursue theological leadership positions like pastor, deacon, priest, etc.
The Catholic Church is complicated around LGBTQ issues. Some communities are more welcoming than others, but there is always a limit to how welcomed an LGBTQ person would be.
The Episcopal Church is very welcoming of LGBTQ people, however. We perform same-sex marriages and ordain LGBTQ people to clergy. My particular parish is marching in a local Pride parade this year.
Start a morning coffee group that meets weekly. Been regularly attending the last decade. A silver lining of the pandemic is now we meet around a morning fire when it's the proper season.
Agree. Obviously if you're a staunch atheist or otherwise just can't stomach the idea of "God," then visiting a church not recommended. But if you grew up Christian and drifted away, or you can entertain the possibility of a higher power, then I recommend checking out a church as a place to find community.
Denominations are different flavors of Christianity, and which denomination you visit is important. I'm personally a member of "The Episcopal Church," which I find to have a very small amount of dogma and is tolerant of a wide range of beliefs. The theological dogma can be summarized in the "Nicene Creed," which is a pretty short list of what the church holds to be true (and even if you as individual differ, TEC is chill about that). After that, members of The Episcopal Church are more united in what they do together rather than what they believe togther - songs, taking communion, common readings, etc. The Episcopl Church is generally one of the more liberal/progressive churches around (we ordain women and LGBTQ individuals into the clergy and perform same-sex marriages, for example).
Otherwise, it's a nice group of people that I see every week. A lot of churches have a "coffee hour" or a meal after the service, and it's a time to chit chat with others. They care about me and I care about them, and people check in on each other to see how everyone is doing. When we had a baby, people brought us food, and we always get cards in the mail for birthdays and such. It's nice.
Since we're a community of people, we can sometimes work together to accomplish things I wouldn't be able to do on my own. We run a food pantry and we've supported families fleeing from bad situations (and not in abstract sense, but doing the legwork of finding an apartment in town and providing furniture and stuff). One family attends our services, and their kid is about my kid's age, so we've become friends over that.
Again, I know religion can invoke strong feelings, so if the very idea is offputting, leave it alone, it's fine. But for me, it's been a community I've appreciated having.
I’m not religious at all, rather agnostic, but my wife is a nonpracticing Christian. (Although I find a good sermon/pastor to be motivating, thought provoking, and just full of basic life lessons that happen to he documented in an old book).
I’m fine with the concept of the right church because of the community effects especially as a parent and wanting my kid to have as many positive role models as possible in his life; peers/adults/seniors. So after many years of being with my wife, we decided to start when my kid was 4. We actually wanted to start earlier but it’s a hard habit to just introduce, then 2020 happened, etc so here we are. It’s been quite a positive adjustment. It’s easy to see the cult and abuse headlines and write it off, but when done right I still think it’s incredibly powerful and religion as a whole is just a framework for peaceful civilization and coexistence with communities.
If they scrapped the sky fairy parts and just made it a weekly social event with interesting speakers and stories then church would actually be quite an attractive option
You might be interested in the Unitarian Universalist Church. I'm not a member so can't speak directly to it, but I'm friends with a few people who are. I once heard it affectionately teased as the place for people who don't believe in God but like going to church.
I expect sect/denomination has an influence here because my experiences in the past were strictly familial, no one made friends there though there are familiar faces. Once service is over, it was Sunday brunch with family.
At any rate, potential friendship is a weak rationalization for joining a religion when there are many avenues to do this.
Imagine going to a movie theater, watching a movie, then leaving and not talking to anyone afterwards. Naturally, that is a terrible way to engage in the movie enthusiast community.
On the other hand, if you spend time with some people, go and watch the movie together, and talk afterwards, it'll feel a whole lot more impactful and you'll find the shared experience fosters a sense of community if you do it on a regular basis.
Denominations, and individual churches within a church, will definitely all have different levels of cohesiveness and character to their communities. It begins and ends, however, with getting out what you put into it.
> Imagine going to a movie theater, watching a movie, then leaving and not talking to anyone afterwards
Uh, I don't know about you but I've never known anyone leaving a theater try to solicit strangers for conversation. You talk to the people you arrived with.
Personally:
-sports: climbing gyms/trips/facebook groups/etc, bike groups (not exclusively biking alone), hiking trips, etc
Anecdotally:
-drama clubs/local theatre productions
-run clubs: while running is typically fairly isolated, there are social run clubs in cities that often go for a drink (no booze necessary) post-run
-book clubs: random collections of people that discuss a book together
-dinner clubs: sharing food with folks in a way where different people cook for others in turn
-partying: most places have a community of folks that enjoy dancing and/or recreationals
Note that I believe that the strong relationships can come from overcoming a shared struggle, so if you can think of something that's difficult and with one or more other person/people, you will probably form a community around it over time (co-founders and cohorts are a great example).
At least on the coasts, clubs that do outdoors activities are fairly common. Doesn't need to be hardcore. There's the Appalachian Mountain Club in the Northeast US which dates to the 1800s. There are (unsurprisingly) at least a couple different Northern CA/PNW clubs though I'm less familiar with what they offer.
1- Beer. Way back when I first started working in Portland, a few of us got together after work every Thursday for beer. People moved on to other jobs, but some kept in touch, and over time we built up a nice core of people, maybe a dozen on average, who would get together every Thursday. New coworkers always welcome, and some of those would become regulars themselves. It kind of fell apart, however, towards the end of the pandemic when the nucleus of our group passed suddenly from cancer. We still try to get together, but it isn't quite the same.
2- Neighborhood. We moved in this neighborhood about 10 years ago when all the houses were being built, and we socialized with the other families buying homes. Now we know almost all of the neighbors within a 5 minute walk. Aside from a couple weirdos, most people are really nice even if sometimes a bit shy. It's great to be on cordial terms with the people who live around you.
2a- Poker. The guys of the neighborhood get together regularly to play Texas Hold 'em. Not for a lot of money, just to have something to do and people to connect with.
2b- Bunco. The gals of the neighborhood also have a regular gathering, generally audible for an eighth of a mile away, Bunco must be the funniest game in the world.
Out of interest, do you find many working on software projects at hacker spaces? Each one I've looked at online seems to have more of a focus on hardware, electronics, metal/wood working with little mention of software. The caveat is that I've only really looked at UK based ones so this may be regional.
I've been trying to find a space that has a similar energy as my old university CS lab. There was a bit of a perfect time in my final year, whereafter 2+ years most people seemed to know each other and at the same time everyone was specialising in their degree. So you could walk into the lab and find people working deep in their own game engine code, others would be working on ML models and others may be working on mobile apps or websites. But with a sense of overall camaraderie and sharing of what you're working on and why.
I suppose it just sounds like I'm describing something like a WeWork but when I've attended those they seem much more employee focused and I rarely saw employees of different companies talk to each other.
I also realise that some of what I describe is often fulfilled by talking to others at your workplace, I'm fully remote so I am missing out on that part.
If anyone knows of anything similar to what I describe above in or near London feel free to reach out to the email in my profile!
I remember someone programming some visuals in vvvv for the first time I'd ever seen that at a hackerspace some years ago in Vancouver, BC which was in some sketchy alley where you hollered up at them and they lowered a key on a pulley. I think you might find some interest taking advantage of the fact that there's so much hardware and electronics around and learning something from them. There's a likelihood that there is someone in there who could use a hand with whatever they're doing in there on the software end too.
For what you're more closely describing I've found local programming meetups in a few major cities that happen at local bars and restaurants to be like that, mostly just people coming in and working on their projects (Either personal or together), maybe not on the same level as what you had in uni but definitely worth checking out too.
Look for local meetups, that's where you can find people who want to engage more broadly. Appropriate spaces may host these, or you may be able to find out about good hangouts from other meetup attendees.
In hackerspaces, I find that software-focused people have different patterns of use than tool focused people. They need to sit down for some focus time, which is hard to distinguish from just browsing from afar. When people use tools, it's clear to see. Speaking from experience with SF/Noisebridge, Oakland/SudoRoom-Omni-commons, Sacramento/Hacker Lab, and visiting some spaces while traveling.
I go to my local hackerspace a couple times a week and there's nearly always a few people working on software, and just there for the social aspects and/or to bounce ideas/solutions off others.
I shovelled snow for the older lady who lived around the corner. She had the same given name as my mother. We talked shop about gardening. Occasionally she would invite my kids over for tea and cookies. We traded books.
Other neighbours would be working on projects in their yard. I offered to help. We get to talking. Some of us had kids around the same age who started hanging out.
I show movies in my yard when the weather is nice and invite people over. We make a big potluck dinner and hang out.
I care a lot about global warming and climate change. One of the biggest impacts we can have as individuals is at the local level. Help out with municipal elections and support councillors who are going to help reduce traffic, make streets safer, help develop community infrastructure, etc. Go to zoning by-law meetings and press for mixed-use neighbourhoods. There's lots you can do here.
I also play music and enjoy board gaming. I meet other musicians through gigs or friends and we jam together, etc. I've joined gaming groups at my local game store on and off when I get into a good game.
There are lots of ways to get out and get local. Start helping people in your community get what they need is a good way to start.
Bumble BFF is where I found my way into a local queer women's bookclub that also a is a space to form ad hoc meetups, do hikes, and generally make friends.
Discord is another, oddly enough. The story is a bit messy, but there was an "offical" server attacked to a subreddit for my location (think r/<MYCITY>). That was, frankly, a terrible server, but I eventually found myself migrating onto a splinter server with a few other folks who felt the same way and together we've cultivated our own community. Again, the space serves as a clearinghouse for ad hoc meetups, group coffees, GWD[1] teams, groups who go to the musical theater together, etc.
These online spaces are good examples of places that have cultivated norms around high psychological safety. In other words, behaviors that lower psychological safety are seen as destructive to the space. The high psychological safety there means that I can probably meet up with any random person in these spaces and be able to trade some degree of vulnerability with them and actually form meaningful connection.
Open source projects. I am building a side project in Rust and contribute to crates along the way. I also do 3d printing of stuff - I’m building a device to freeze air (co2 waypoint hit, next oxygen and nitrogen) using only thermoelectric chips and all the enclosures etc I’m designing in build123d a parametric cad system in Python. So I have a lot of discord communities that I interact with and it’s been great. Since I started working from home 6 years ago I’ve also built up a network of nerd friends in my local community / neighborhood that I interact with regularly. In fact remote work has let me build a real community in my life. Being very senior your relationships at work can be very transactional. Being locked into a human hamster wheel chicken coop with a bunch of people who need something from me all work day then the rest of my day commuting and being exhausted meant I was very lonely.
My dog, the dog park, and subsequently my neighborhood. If you go to the dog park twice a day you'll meet people and start chatting with them. Everyone needs to walk their dog so you end up seeing the same crew regularly. Its a great way to meet the people who live around you.
I think the pandemic definitely helped people realize that their job can't be their only social outlet.
Local weekly pinball tournaments are an amazing way to meet folks and hang out in a low-pressure social environment.
Since the rounds of the tournament are randomized groups of four, every round is a chance to introduce yourself to three other players and learn each others' names. If you come back regularly, you'll start to recognize and be recognized by the other regulars. Everyone gets to know each other better at a natural and unforced pace.
I've been playing every Wednesday night for about a year, and I like it so much that I'm shifting my work schedule so I can join the same local regulars for a Thursday night tournament at a different arcade too.
I really hope you have the chance to give it a try!
I'm a member of my local Rotary, the one I'm part of does a lot of good work around the city. I'm also part of a non-profit, the Chicago Engineers' Foundation (https://www.chicagoengineersfoundation.org/) that I get a lot of value and connections out of. Also a city club to meet other professionals and chat.
But my main was going back to school to get a MBA, met a ton of people that way.
What you want is called a "third place", which has sadly died out in many ways recently. A great way to just meet people from different backgrounds with different interests.
I joined a local Rotary club twenty years ago (in my mid-40s) and it’s become a pillar of my social health and personal productivity. Service clubs like Rotary (Lions, Kiwanis,etc) are facing an existential demographic crash right at a time when people have a renewed interest in IRL social/community engagement. Fingers crossed that resolves!
I tried applying to my local rotary club online in 2019. Basically just a web form expressing interest. I got an automated email saying someone would reach out in the next 30 days. I was met with complete radio silence. Never heard anything back at all.
I was a Rotary exchange student 20 years ago which completely changed the trajectory of my life (for the better), and was excited to help the next generation with becoming an exchange student. I was also involved with RYLA as a teen.
For a group facing an existential crisis, they didn’t seem too worried about it
You'll find that groups like the Rotary or Knights of Columbus or the Shriners are almost technologically phobic - it's entirely possible that your automated email came from a web form and your interest was forwarded to an email box of a member who had died years ago.
Phone or in person is often the only way to get things done, unless there happens to be a tech-savvy person involved.
I could see that for sure. At the time I couldn’t find any easy contact info for my local club and thought it would be inappropriate to just show up to the monthly lunch meeting. Maybe I’ll try that though!
Rotarians are... older, and often not good with tech. I've been a de facto tech support of mine a few times. They really would see some good overall growth if they invested in that some more.
I don't think Rotary globally is facing an existential crisis, but it is in the US. It is very popular abroad but has been dying out in the USA.
That's interesting to hear. I was also a Rotary exchange student to Japan. It was an incredible experience. I've thought about whether Rotary would be a good option personally or professionally but haven't tried it yet.
May I ask - have you had a good experience with Rotary? Because while I am a member of my local club, I've been profoundly disappointed. Almost none of the service projects in my community are anything that's terribly useful - it's a lot of make work so people feel useful. I've also been disappointed in the punitive, "frat boy" like behavior among club members. While I don't think there is any fraudulent activity occurring, I have found some of the financial decision making a bit eye brow raising as well.
I joined the Texas State Guard and found a lasting connection with my group. When I'm there I feel like I'm with family.
About half the states have a state guard. The organizational structure is military-ish, but we don't have weapons. We wear essentially the same uniform as the national guard, and sometimes work with them, but it's not related to the national guard except that we both report to the governor. The difference is the state guard ONLY reports to the governor and doesn't have any federal connection.
Since I joined I've helped run a shelter after hurricane Harvey and run water distribution centers after the freeze 2 years ago. But most of the time I just do the same thing I do at my regular job.
When I joined they needed programmers. They need everybody, tbh. It's not hard to qualify.
How did that work? Unless there is a deployment, the schedule is one weekend a month right? What kind of tech work were you able to do in that timeframe?
You mentioned working in a shelter as well during Harvey. How often were you called into service? It looks likes the number of whether related missions has increased in recent years - https://tmd.texas.gov/texas-state-guard-missions
I just moved to Austin and the idea of joining a state guard is appealing.
> Unless there is a deployment, the schedule is one weekend a month right?
Yes and no. I do a lot of work at home. I mostly work on our home-grown software that manages the organization (recruiting and personnel management).
> How often were you called into service?
In 6 years I've been called out by the governor twice on big missions (1 hurricane and 1 freeze). But I've also had a handful of other deployments that were more like "we need a volunteer to come to HQ for a week". I once got "deployed" for 2 days to drive some computers from Austin down to the border. I try to take those tasks occasionally if my job can spare me.
The drill weekends are unpaid, but you get paid for any deployment. All deployments are voluntary, but you are expected to be available if a big disaster strikes.
> I just moved to Austin
Headquarters is at Camp Mabry in Austin. Building 32.
I've found the local Swing Dance scene to be very welcoming; the same with local bicycle group rides (you see a lot of the same people at different rides and make friends really quick), the local bike repair co-ops where you can learn/teach mechanical skills, the local blues dance scene has been great, etc.
Pick something that interests you and go do it! Find a nerd store that has a gaming night and sit down at a random table and ask to join their DnD campaign, or ask around and find the local rock climbing gym that does community building nights, etc. whatever catches your fancy I guarantee there are others out there that also like the same things and want to connect!
Public social infrastructure like your local library is always a good place to go too: they'll have book clubs, lecture series, parent meetups, etc. check out their programming schedule and see if anything sounds interesting to you.
My local organization of the Democratic Party. What you discover are a whole lot of people with similar values who really care about their community. I've also been surprised by how many have similar hobbies and interests - who knew that there were so many beekeepers, cheesemakers, chicken farmers, etc? Great opportunity to connect with people, learn more about local issues, and have a voice in our democracy.
Take matter into your own hands. "Be the change you want to see" basically. For example I organize software meetups at a nice coffeehouse. It started out with like four people a year ago, and now we average ~25-30 each month, and growing. Consistency is key.
P.S. If you live in Seattle, and you're a software engineer, shoot me an email: abner at handmadecities dot com
This 100%, but a warning, this consistency also applies to the people meeting. And that is much more difficult to encourage than anything else. Funding, organizing and advertising meetups ends up being the easy part.
I have run a LUG now for half a year now, and it has been impossible to get people to meet up more than once. This is regardless of content, free food, event weeks, high quality talks by members, encouraging social interactions, holding discussions with experts on interested topics, etc.
Mind you, the members we have are still fiercely for the LUG to continue, they do not want to see it gone, but also continue not showing up. I have worked with frequent members individually to try and find alternatives like better time slots, as many complain about being "busy", but I have now learned its really not a time issue either.
Not really sure why its so hard getting people to show, it just is, even if you give people exactly what they want plus unique spins on topics that are cheered on in the public channel when announced, but follows to nobody showing up.
Congrats on running something consistently for half a year!
> [...] they do not want to see it gone, but also continue not showing up.
Could it be you need more than one social channel that funnels the group from one place to the next? That would improve their sense of belonging raise the stakes.
In my case, we have a website [0], a Discord, and a couple of conferences. The meetups are strongly tied to these other channels and that seems to do the trick.
You can do this really simply, if you're willing to eat alone for awhile - just put a notice in appropriate places that you'll be at the restaurant/bar/whatever every Thursday at 7:00 PM for "whatever topic you come up with". It'll eventually grow.
This might be the closest for me. Grew up in choirs and play multiple instruments. Would really love a gospel choir, if one would have me. Will poke around. Thanks!
I guess I'm a little weird, because while I have plenty of friends (generally former coworkers), I generally haven't felt the need to be part of a community since I got married.
I like my wife, presumably she likes me, and having a person that cohabits with me that I get along with has honestly done a good enough job at making me feel a connection and purpose.
I live in a very transient city with very little tech industry, which also happens to be a city where half the population leaves every April/May through October/November.
Community has been hard, especially meeting new folks. There have been a few community tech events that have come and gone, and I've been lucky enough to meet a few friends through that.
I joined a gym 4 years ago, and a lot of my friends now I've met through that gym.
Expanding on the gym comment. I've been going to small gyms for 20+ years and always loved the community there. When our gym shut down for lockdowns, I had enough space and equipment to invite folks to train in my driveway. I now host folks every evening to do workouts. Great for community! We haven't even thought of going back to a gym even though everything is open again. We like the community that we've grown into.
> I joined a gym 4 years ago, and a lot of my friends now I've met through that gym.
Is it common for strangers to actually approach each other in the gym? At least here everyone goes from machine to machine listening to music and making as little contact as possible and the few times I've been approached was just to ask how many sets I have left. I've been surprised just how much that seems to differ from place to place.
Regular gym goer for 20+ years here. It eventually becomes difficult not going to the gym, on days I can’t exercise I feel restless, like a dog that hasn’t gone out for his walk.
Food, I eat between 4K and 5k calories per day and I’m close to 10% body fat. I love eating.
Re: boring. Lift heavy, it’s supposed to be challenging. It should require focus and concentration. Don’t use machines, those are boring.
I would never go if it were exclusively for aesthetic, strength, or health benefits. For me it lifts my mood like nothing else, anytime I feel like not going I know it is my I unexercised mind telling me stories, once I start moving weight it’s like changing a radio station in my head and the negative affect fades away.
Cardio exercise is absolutely dreadful. Try lifting weights, heavy ones (after studying form via YouTube videos and verifying that your form is correct on lighter weights). Pushing your limits is neither boring nor time-consuming. 45 minutes is enough for a vigorous workout.
I work out somewhat between 9-12 hours per week consistently (weights, yoga, running, muay-thai). It also makes me feel quick(er), more energetic and relaxed. Of course there is a physical aspect to it as well, I look great. And a mental and cognitive one too. Knowing that I can push through quite some physical strain, makes me realize that the mental strains, stressors and problems I face on a daily basis aren't all that different. What keeps me going is seeing the benefits accrue over time, but it also was hard for me to get started ... but all did start with a tiny habit 10 years ago, you don't have to go all out on a routine in a gym, or boring yourself to death with something you don't like. There are enough options.
I used to feel exactly like you, until I started for health reasons, and found I couldn’t have been more wrong.
Weight training is the most cognitively demanding thing I’ve ever done, not at all mindless or boring. Using proper form and technique is essentially a martial art, and takes tremendous skill and focus, and can advance in skill limitlessly. As a competitive strongman, I’m also always pushing my skills by lifting and carrying new objects that require different skills and techniques. Some “feats of strength” have taken years of training and strategizing to accomplish. Walking on a treadmill is still boring to me and I avoid it. For the gym to be fun and engaging it needs to be both cognitively and physically demanding, yet possible to accomplish.
Great! I recommend finding some sort of community, club, or coach. Heavy lifts are dangerous if you do them wrong, and you also run the risk of developing bad habits. An hour or two 1:1 with a strength coach from a program like Starting Strength is really worth it. https://coaching.startingstrength.com/
Many people go to the gym as a means of achieving their goals.
If you have health goals in mind, there are a lot of things at the gym that support them.
For example, one friend was overweight and it was recommended that in addition to cardio, he have strength training. He goes a couple nights a week and goes through the strength training stations. He's lost 7 inches on his waist in the last few months.
Another friend goes for the exercise classes
I did the gym years ago, but nowadays I bought a used stairmaster for cheap and set it up in my house. I read for pleasure and do it while on the stairmaster. I also hike with others frequently, but days I can't this works for me.
If you're going to a "treadmill" gym, yeah, you're right. But a small powerlifting or weightlifting gym is different. You have to have a spotter or partner, so you'll workout with someone while you're there. And if you're doing it right, you have more downtime between sets than time working, so you end up chatting and making friends.
What's interesting is that people who had lived in that neighborhood nearly 20 years together had never talked, and met for the first time as both stopped to chat at nearly the same time.
Then we started with small gifts, usually food because my wife cooks exotic things for people to try. Now we get random gifts, usually food or fruits or some flower or plant.
Now we have little get togethers inviting each other, text to ask if need anything from the store, etc. And all it took was being willing to sit outside for a couple hours each night and say hi.