Wow. I've had this same problem for months. I spent over an hour on the phone with Support just trying to describe the problem, until they came to the conclusion that there was absolutely no way to send me new ones or to have me send them my broken ones...because I live in Puerto Rico. The week prior, Apple had sent me a new cable for my phone in 2 days flat, yet when I had a problem, there was nothing they could do about it.
This is a very known feature of Apple, especially if you are subscribed to Louis Rossmann's channel. Basically, Apple is going to treat you first class only until you have a hardware problem.
Not just allergic to any hardware needing repair, Apple will go out of their way to make your life miserable. At the very best their repair is to replace most of your device for a hefty price, at worst they will flat out refuse to help even if you offer them to pay out of your pocket but also put their legal departments to work ensuring there is nobody else on the market to compete with the service they don't provide, stop shipments of parts that don't infringe on any trademarks or patents, and so on.
I don't know dude, they've replaced like, 3 laptops for me, all the keyboards, everything. They fix it all, no problem, everything is easy when it's scheduled by appointment.
> They fix it all, no problem, everything is easy when it's scheduled by appointment.
The fact that you need to schedule an appointment in the first place is horrible customer service. When I buy a product from NewEgg, if there's anything wrong with it, they immediately ship me a new one and a box to return the old one in, no questions asked. When my ThinkPad started having issues eight months after purchase, they sent me a prepaid return box, fixed it, and sent it back quickly. When I've had problems with MacBooks, I've had to schedule an appointment, drive to the Apple store, wait in line, explain my problem, let them ask a zillion irrelevant questions (the equivalent of 'did you try rebooting?'), and then come back in a few weeks to pick it up. They are hostile to customers when it comes to hardware issues, and they almost never admit that their products are faulty. Look at how long it took them to fix the TouchBar and keyboard failures a few years ago.
Apple will fix your product if it's under warranty, but they won't make it easy, and they won't pull a defective product and re-engineer it until the bad press overwhelms them. They're not great at this aspect of customer service.
Are you serious? Last time I had my Macbook Pro repaired, they sent me a prepaid box, I mailed it to them the next morning, and I had it back in 3 days. Other than a tech personally coming to your house, what else do you expect?
I've lost lots of very valuable information by storing it in a MacBook due to their lack of customer service or acceptable repair times for essential goods like laptops. Never again.
Once they’ve acknowledged a major fault, yeah. But until then it’s denial and nonsense and stupidity. My last Mac was a 2007 MBP - the one with the melty GPU. It’s actually still functional on the third board but the fuss and nonsense around getting the first two replaced when everyone knew there was a common fault (except Apple apparently) was pretty pathetic.
I had an MBP with a fried motherboard, out of warranty and paid for it to be replaced out of pocket (400 eur or so). Some months later Apple contacted me and WIRED money to my bank account to compensate the cost. This was for an Early 2011 MBP and they had GPU replacement program for it after a lot of reports about issues.
All of this in North Macedonia, with no Apple stores (but the fix was done at an authorized reseller). To be honest I was kind of amazed they did that and definitely left a lasting good impression of them.
Given I have some hardware trouble with my current MBP. Can you tell me what the process for the refund is? (I'm being quoted $800 for a battery repair).
MacBook Pro Out of Warranty
16-inch MacBook Pro $199
15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display $199
13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display $199
15-inch MacBook Pro $129
13-inch MacBook Pro $129
17-inch MacBook Pro (Vintage) $179
MacBook Air Out of Warranty
13-inch MacBook Air $129
11-inch MacBook Air $129
MacBook Out of Warranty
12-inch MacBook $199
Where I live Apple offers the same fixed-price battery replacement service but in local currency.
But if I go to a non-Apple store, but an "approved seller" of Apple products, they will quote a much higher price. I challenged them about this once, and they said it wouldn't be cheaper anywhere else, so I showed them the Apple page and they admitted that was much cheaper and I should go to the Apple store.
I told you about the Apple service in case you were being ripped off and would appreciate knowing about the Apple fixed price service, if you are in a country where they do that.
US $ prices were provided because you quoted $800, presumably US $. Other country prices are on the Apple website with a bit of searching. Look up battery service.
Refund method was asked for, which is rather dependent on country. If you're in a less-likely-for-HN country and asking how to get a refund it would make sense to say which country.
I think your fix would have to be eligible for some program of theirs like the one they had for the GPU issues [1]. Best to check with an authorized reseller/service and have a look at their current Repair Extension programs [2].
The price of the battery is like $250 and it includes the whole top case. It's the exact same part where the price depends on the CompTIA failure code selected by the technician doing the work.
One of my laptop speakers broke. They replaced the entire top of the laptop. Didn't ask for an invoice because they saw the laptop was covered by warranty. I went to the apple support page, scheduled an appointment and had my laptop fixed at no cost in a week. This happened two years ago, in Argentina. The laptop was bought in the US.
They replaced an iPhone 6 bought abroad (on their store) by a new one in an Apple Store when it had a problem (which didn’t even warrant remplacement and I think the problem was actually fixed but the staff nor I recognize it at that tule). Whole operating took less than half an hour. Honestly that’s what I call stellar service.
That's true. I live in a country that only recently got an Apple store. Prior to that, the 3rd-party Apple vendors were making a killing with upgrade costs and replacement parts and so on.
Was a definite change in the local market when Apple Store arrived.
I've been in both sides of this. Seems like there's a limited range of issues they consider "valid", which tends to exclude design flaws (c.f. "you're holding it wrong", staingate). Outside of that visual confirmation seems to help a lot, my success rate on the phone is low until I start sending photos (and they still take days for replacements with parts in-stock).
Anecdotally Dell and Lenovo will send technicians on-site to fix the issue. Easy when scheduled by appointment is table stakes; for stuff with iProduct pricing and positioning, they're not doing that great.
I bought the on site service warranty. It was about 100 Euro for 3 years (as in 33.33 per year) for my zBook 15 back in 2014. It got much more expensive on the fourth year (maybe 100+ per one year), then basically started to cover nothing. I got a quotation for 400 Euro to replace the keyboard. The original backlit one is about 130 Euro, the not backlit one is about 40. Of course the difference is next business day replacement but for a keyboard it's never so vital. I already replaced it myself a couple of times and bought a spare one because they'll run out of parts sooner or later. I keep my old laptop as a spare and kind of know what to buy next, ideally the same laptop, maybe a little lighter and with no number pad.
This is certainly false in my experience. I’ve had prompt repairs done with no questions asked a few times, even replacements of small parts, like a fractured cable.
At least there's some consumer protection laws there.
I had an issue with my 2017 MBP where the speakers would conk out; I've had it fixed under warranty / recall, but because Apple sucks when it comes to repairability they had to replace the whole top cover, keyboard, touchpad, the works.
Same here, been through many replacement cycles with Apple, and whenever it was clearly Apples' problem, they replaced the system, no questions asked.
There was the NVIDIA GPU flap, the thermal paste issue, the screen bleed, and even an iPhone - 3 MacBook replacements, and an iPhone, for free, because Apple took responsibility for having designed and shipped a shitty product (really, all were flaws in Apple's supplier/manufacturing).
If, however, I try to get a freebie for having gotten an iPhone wet, well .. bets are off there.
How do you let Apple make mistakes "many times", yet still buy their stuff?
If a device I buy fails for what I consider to be a design or manufacturing mistake, I'll be wary of the company. If it happens again, I won't buy more of their stuff.
Because I keep using their stuff, quite proactively, and productively, and when it breaks and its Apples fault, I can go back to them and get a new one, no questions asked, and get back on with using the thing.
vendor lock-in, hard to use anything else. Addicted to Mac ecosystem, lots of data in iCloud, lots of purchased music, videos and apps from their stores? :P
Literally, none of the above in my case. I don't use iCloud, no purchased music or videos, and 'brew' is my app-store. I could switch to Linux in a heartbeat, and probably will, with my next hardware upgrade. But in the meantime, Apple keep me on their platform by providing superlative replacement service.
The nVidia one at least was totally nVidia’s fault (at the time I had a Dell with the same fault that needed two motherboard replacements), and that soured their relationship with Apple to the point that you’ve never since been able to buy an Apple product with nVidia technology in it.
They refused to replace an iPad whose screen shattered after falling from a chair less than two weeks after my wife bought it. One should note that it was specifically recommended to her in the shop as a good device to let the children watch Netflix on. Obviously, it wasn’t fit for that purpose. All they offered is buying the exact same fragile device again at a discount. I was so angry that I contemplated secretly putting “Careful, fragile glass! Breaks very easily.” stickers onto the devices in the shop. :)
It would really be incredible if Apple devices were the only device with unbreakable glass screens. That's why phone cases are ubiquitous. Why should they pay for your negligence? You might have a point if they refused to replace the screen at your cost.
Force = mass × acceleration.
The larger size of the tablet means that if it fails at an angle where the glass is subject to the impact, the force will be greater. It's possible that tablet glass is designed to withstand a larger force to compensate. I don't have any info on that, anyone has any insight into this?
I also managed to drop my iPhone without it getting a scratch. It does not prove anything, though. Glass is a fragile material and seemingly similar shocks can have very different results. AFAIK most of high-end smartphones use the same gorilla glass.
There are different revisions of the Gorilla recipe, with different tradeoffs.
The 5X in particular also made a bunch of other decisions that helped the glass survive, like having the frame raised slightly past the glass, so that the frame would absorb the impact rather than the glass itself.
I had a Nexus 4, with a glass back and I dropped it and chipped it early on. Since then I use a case, but I've never broken a screen for whatever reason.
Not all glass is equal. There is a trade-off between being scratch-proof (harder glass) and shock-proof (softer). Apple seems to be particularly aggressive in going for the former. Also, Apple tends to sacrifice robustness for elegance. Both design decisions make iPads less suitable for children than the average tablet. My wife’s mistake was to trust the advice of the Apple salesperson who claimed that the iPad is a good choice for children.
I firmly believe that when I buy a phone I take ownership of the phone and this means also responsibility and potential risk of the phone being destroyed through my carelessness. Since Apple is no longer owner of the phone they are only responsible for their own actions with regards to the phone.
That still means if there is a hidden fault in the phone or they brick it by sending an update, they are still responsible in my understanding. But no longer if I give the device to family member and he/she is careless enough to sit on it.
And I firmly believe that if a company sells you a product and claims that it is fit for a particular purpose, you should be able to get your money back if it turns out that this was not the case.
Okay... and you also expect the car manufacturer to replace the car your wife crashed?
When you buy shiny sleek phone with edge-to-edge screen you should understand this is not a phone to be dropped or sat on. It is not possible to fit so much screen, electronics and battery into such sleek enclosure and make it drop resistant. If you need drop resistant phone, there are phones that advertise the feature (see: https://www.techradar.com/best/best-rugged-smartphones)
In other words, dropping an iPhone is not an intended use of the phone.
Why? They sold us a product claiming it is fit for a particular purpose and then it turned out this wasn’t true. A device that cannot withstand being dropped from minimal hight is not suitable for children. Period.
This is why I no longer buy AppleCare or any other extended coverage product from Apple.
In 2008 I bought a new 15” MacBook Pro and two coverage policies: AppleCare for manufacture issues and Safeware for any accidents. One day in the first year or two the keyboard stopped working, I took it in they replaced it. Then about a week later it wouldn’t boot. I took it in and a tech at the Apple store (Emeryville Calif) insisted it must be some kind of liquid spill. Because there was “Schmutz” on the side of the motherboard. I guess their theory was I spilled colored liquid or soup or something on it (??). Now I was covered against accidents the problem is there was no accident. Apple refused to even examine the machine beyond glancing at the side of the motherboard which apparently could be done without disassembling the machine. Couldn’t file a claim against Safeware because that would be fraud. I get mad still just thinking about it. I bought a MacBook Pro 13 2010 like a chump.
You bought insurance, got your claim certified by Apple, and refused to file your claim, throwing away $2000 to spite Apple, and then gave Apple another $2000?
Your accident was buying a computer from a company who didn't honor their warranty, or something that happened when you weren't watching.
I don't see much issue with making an accident claim given there is "proof of an accident that I did not witness". If the insurance denies Apple's proof is sufficient then the ball is back in their park.
In that situation, get it in writing from the Apple person that they're not covering it because 'liquid damage' and take them at their word (who's to say it didn't have liquid spilled on it when you weren't watching), then claim for accidental damage. You can be fully honest - no fraud here surely?
This is such a biased comment. Even people who don’t buy Apple products will admit that so many aspects of their hardware is genuinely premium and not met by other manufacturers. The quality of the trackpad is at the top of the industry, and you’ll find nearly anyone admitting this, whether they use Apple products or not. And I’ve seen plenty of exclusively Linux-using developers have a wow moment when they sit down at a retina screen. To say that everything is greener on the other side it’s just silly. There are pros and cons.
Please. High DPI screens are old hat. And Apple continues to stubbornly refuse to put touch screens in their computers, because they know what's best for you.
Not only that. As an engineer with 28 years of experience, I'm pass "Wow" times. I worked with enough "wow" engineers who had everything top shiny with Apple logo but when it came to fixing something they spent minutes smooth scrolling then clicking and waiting for nicely animated warning popup that fell down from top and bounced back very nicely like a real tennis ball before they had a chance to click call to action. After they were done getting to it, I turned around and told boss "fixed and pushed into production".
The bottom line is that you can definitely deliver cargo of potatoes bags into your fries&cola stand in a shiny new Lamborghini and "wow" everyone around... you can also have a Nissan minvan to do so equally good or better.
I agree, I believe this is one area where Apple made the right decision. A computer should either be used like an actual computer, or used as a mobile device. It takes more than just a touchscreen to make it the latter. So it doesn’t make sense to add it arbitrarily. Now adding a keyboard to a mobile device, however, does offer some nice flexibility without compromising on the mobile aspect of it.
Just because Apple makes things that are difficult to impossible to get repaired doesn't mean they are bad.
Apple doesn't aim at the low end of the market. Users can think of this as another part of the cost of the device.
I have a Thinkpad that is 6 years old. I have spilled things on it twice, and fixed it both times myself (both times completely drenched, once with latte, once with mineral water). I would like it to die but it just refuses to give up. If I was MBP user the problem would have been solved for me a long time ago and I would be happy owner of succession of laptops.
How is this a feature of Apple? I had the same experience with Sony Vaio’s in the early 2000s, corporate Dells, HP zBooks, and Apple Mac’s. Either they don’t bat an eye at the repair or they interrogate you about a liquid indicator or some other small issue to get out of it.
Going through it with my HP zBook that is making a squeaking sound from the speaker. “I do hear a little noise but the speaker works fine. No problem here. -HP Support”
Apple’s margins are wayyyyy higher than any of the other companies you mentioned.
You’d think they could sacrifice some of that margin for a better customer experience when it comes to repair, otherwise what’s the point of buying an Apple device.
Apple is fine as long as you're under AppleCare(+) - you don't care if they have to swap out a whole motherboard for a single blown 0 ohm resistor as long as they're the ones paying for it. When I had the original 2012 MBP Retina, AppleCare swapped out literally every single part on it piecemeal, with no complaints.
The hell starts when your AppleCare ends (unless you're lucky to be covered by an repair extension)
Apple’s re-cycling program has always been corporate green-washing. It’s far greener to make the maximum possible use of your very resource intensive products. That would eat into Apple’s profits however, so they go out of their way to make it as difficult as possible.
Re-use beats re-cycling every time: Next time Apple crows about their “Green” recycling program ask how many of those devices are put back into use.
I grew up replacing all my devices every three, four years because whatever you bought after three years it was ancient.
My current laptop is six and a half years old (T440s bought on the day it became available) and is still very competent machine (after I hacked it to support LTE). I will probably replace it in a year or two and I can imagine this could be given away to somebody with need and it could be used productively for many years to come. With 4 cores, 12GB of RAM and 500GB SSD not many people will find it lacking as a work laptop (with built in graphics it was never meant for gaming or graphics work).
Now, I think this is way more green than any recycling program. The laptop is built to last and in perfect condition.
Their laptops have the highest resale values and their iOS devices have far far longer lifespans than their Android equivalents, I think it's hard to fault them on this
Don’t forget how they won’t even acknowledge hardware is the problem until 5 years after the device came out and many complained. By that time, they might even be so generous as to offer fixing the problem with a partial recall, long after anyone got rid of their lemon. See the gfx chipset desoldering itself in 2012 (I think it was that year?) MacBooks, the butterfly keyboard that stops working the second a tiny spec of dust gets under it, etc.
Apple isn’t alone with that strategy. I bought a fairly expensive Dell XPS 15 that was overheating. They literally replaced the mobo (which had an i7 and a GTX 1050 attached to it) four different times... and the entire process was a year long nightmare.
Between express shipping, in home techs, and parts, they spent way more than it would have cost to replace the unit. And, it never solved the problem. I have to underclock it before doing anything very CPU intensive.
Unless you're talking about overheating to the point of shutting down, the CPU/GPU getting to 100+ degrees and throttling is quite common and expected in thin laptops - it's a design choice to prefer light weight and thin over decent cooling and/or underclocking/undervolting and to only throttle near the limit rather than at lower temperatures.
I am very much talking about the unit shutting down from heat. If I plan on rendering video overnight or anything like that, I change the maximum CPU utilization to 97%. If I want to play a modern game with heavy requirements, I set it to 80% or even less.
Same here, just with an XPS13 - the laptop had insane(and I'm not exaggerating) coil whine, and also would randomly not go to sleep just stay on and slowly cook itself in a whatever case you put it in. Dell replaced the mobo 3(!!!) times, then finally replied that it was the last time they will repair that machine due to these issues for me and that was that.
> and also would randomly not go to sleep just stay on and slowly cook itself in a whatever case you put it in
This happens to my MBP every other month. With a classic Windows laptop you always have some sort of LEDs that indicate the state of power/charging when it is closed - with a MBP, nothing.
I went through 6 of the very first iPhones. I could walk into the store, show them the problem and they’d hand me a replacement that I’d have restored from backup by the time I walked out. Process took about half an hour each time and was pleasant. I’ve been an Apple customer since and largely had the same experience.
Just yesterday they replaced my wife’s watch by fedex within 48 hours. No hassles.
I dunno. I'm sure there are people who have bad experiences, but I've always had good experiences getting Apple hardware fixed with and without Apple Care. It's one of the reasons I've used Apple hardware for so long. Maybe my experiences are routinely good because I live near an Apple store and only deal with people in person?
I understand that ANY corporation that has enough customers will have some of the customers unhappy, treated in error, etc. There is always possibility for bad employees, mistakes, missteps, etc.
What I look at is the apparent policy of the company. Claiming shipment of refurbished touchscreens (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9kxzpy/apple-is-still-try...) or waiting for huge number of customers cry out loud for a long time to even acknowledge a problem is a policy problem.
Well I have a broken Apple Pencil and now way to repair it or at least more cheaply replace it. The nearest Apple store is hours away (and another few hours of queuing up waiting for temperature measurements of all customers) and sending it in is not allowed.They did tell on the phone in a roundabout way they would replace it for about half the cost.
Very known? I’ve been buying Apple since 2001 and in that time have felt like first class in all interactions with the company, even the post-Jobs era. I know a few who think like you, but whose experience is relatively close to mine (they may have gotten a bad iPhone one year, etc.)
This sounds more like the usual “Apple is too expensive and just cares about profits” trope.
I once took a 5 year old laptop that was out of warranty. The battery was swollen so they fixed that for free. They also replaced the display panel because they noticed the hinge was a little loose. They also fixed a dead ipod touch for me once. Mailed me a new one and sent me a box to RMA the old one and I couldn't have spent more than 5 minutes on support.
That has not been my experience. I’ve been overnighted replacement iPhones and AirPods without any resistance from online Apple Support. The only time I went in for a physical repair they gave me a loaner device and my repair was completed by noon the next day.
Interesting, I had exactly the opposite experience with a hardware issue. My iPod started showing symptoms pre warranty end, they suggested a software update, it got a bit better then a lot worse outside of warranty and they just sent me a refurb for free.
I just had an iPad Air replaced with zero misery on my end; reported the problem to apple via support chat, tried basic troubleshooting with support tech to no avail, promptly received paid mailer, sent device to Apple and was then overnighted a new device.
Apple replaced my rattling AirPods Pro with a couple quick and simple questions at a Genius Bar appointment. They charged me nothing and it took just a few minutes. No AppleCare.
It sounds like this is more about how they apply policy per region outside of their stores.
This has changed a lot. Back in the HDD-powered iPod days you could drop and crash the hard drive (as in the drive would physically crash and break, for you kids)... and they'd still repair or replace it for free.
the thought of supporting this mentality & behavior towards customers makes me cringe. This is the primary reason why I will never buy any Apple hardware again.
Apple wouldn't let me return (for store credit) or exchange a gift I received without a gift receipt despite me being able to provide the purchaser and the location of the purchase.
Same here. From Puerto Rico, too. I thought about sending my AirPods Pro to my relative living in FL, but with COVID-19 shipping delays I didn't want to risk missing the extremely narrow shipping window to send back the broken AirPods. They were all "Yep, this sounds like a problem! Let me set up a repair" until I sent my Puerto Rico address. Terrible support for non US-mainlanders.
Even though back in March, Apple said there were no Authorized Repair people in PR, I had found one through my own search. It's called Metro Technologies in Hato Rey, not too far from Plaza Las Americas. I can't vouch for them since I have yet to take my AirPods Pro there, and I don't know why Apple didn't show them on their own search page for finding authorized repair, but I decided to search on Apple.com again, just now, and found there are 5 places now, including the one mentioned. It seems even Best Buy here does repairs now, too.
Thanks for the info! I wonder if they deal with AirPods, though. Authorized Repair Centers usually deal with a subset of products and not ALL Apple products, at least the ones here in PR.
I was in rural Japan, at least 5 hours from the nearest Apple Store, and had a dreaded MacBook keyboard stuck key. The first time I contacted Apple they said I absolutely had to travel to a Genius Bar appointment, and stay overnight until the laptop was repaired. This surprised me since in the past when I lived far from a store in the US, they would send me an overnight FedEx box.
I contacted them again a few weeks later and said I absolutely could not go to an Apple Store, as it would probably cost me $400-500 to do so. This time they figured out how to send a courier to pick it up from me and sent it back, repaired, within a few days.
It's possible there are many support staff who just don't know how to deal with these atypical situations.
All the people above complaining about how Apple didn’t help them. I had the exact opposite experience. They started doing it and 3 days later I had a completely new pair. Work great and was no problem whatsoever.
I just had my right airpod returned and replaced under warranty, it's only a matter of time before the left goes.
It took me two hours to get a person on the phone, and we went through no less than 3 reset cycles. :|
Then the advisor told me I have to return it in person to an apple store (which is closed) or to an apple authorized repair store, and mentioned there will be a $29 fee, but fortunately for me, she was reading the prices wrong. Warranty returns/repairs should be free of cost. I asked for a supervisor, and was connected to someone who actually knew what was going on. He said they could mail the replacement and return packaging so I wouldn't have to come in. Second advisor was so helpful and knowledgeable. I'm just babying my left airpod before it goes.
Try using the official Apple Support App and chatting w them. They should send you a replacement airpod pro the same way you got a cable. They will just place a hold on your card for the amount of the replacement part until you return the defective one. They ship with a pre-filled return label - at least in the US
Nope, chatting didn't help for me, it only added to the time wasting. I had the same AirPod Pro problem and started with chat Not only did they not solve it via chat (despite detailed troubleshooting notes I provided), they wasted a lot of time asking me to try things that clearly had nothing to do w/ the problem. After a long time of this, they said I'd have to call. Even with a case number, I basically started from scratch on the phone, took about 1hr. After all that, they did finally send me one replacement (right side only). It fixed the problem, though I will say that now they perpetually unbalanced in terms of ear pressure.
I used support via iMessage, and the support rep ran me through one reset cycle and basically said "that sucks" and got me set up with a return. This was approximately two weeks ago, so I wonder if their policies are evolving?
Same. I finally found the time to get it fixed, and I used the iMessage chat. After going through a reset and answering some basic questions (version numbers, etc.), they just sent me a replacement.
I had the AppleCare and paid via Amex, the latter which gives me a longer warranty.
I've gotten both my left and my right Airpod pro replaced on different occasions. My right one after 4 months and my left one 1 month later. So far, all of my friends/coworkers that own the pro's also got them replaced at some point within 6 months, or are dealing with the 'Rattlegate' issue.
I am blown away by the quality of the pro, both positive and negative. How is it that we are all paying $280 and still have to replace them every year.
One good point is, Apple is sending replacements out without any questions asked other than 'is it making that sound?'. The replacement flow is really smooth too:
Call or chat -> CreditCard got charged -> Left or right replacement is send via UPS -> You replace the specific side that isn't working correctly -> You pack the broken one in the bag that is included -> You return it for free at a UPS point. Obviously, this won't work anymore after a year of use because after that they are out of warranty. (At least in The Netherlands)
I don’t know about the Netherlands specifically, but most countries in the EEA have extremely strong consumer protection laws. It’s probably the case that you have many years of guaranteed freedom from manufacturing flaws under your local laws. In the U.K. it’s almost pointless to purchase extended warranties as most items are guaranteed by law to be free from manufacturing defects for 6 years after purchase.
When I was trying to replace or return my 1 year and 2 week old Macbook Pro to Apple due to what turned out to be a faulty logic board, Apple said it was too late as their 1 year warranty had passed. But here in Australia we cannot just sign our consumer rights away. I explained this very clearly, that I was not seeking a return based on Apple's warranty but rather seeking a return based on the consumer rights that govern my country and any businesses that wish to do business here.
Many large companies have tried to skirt around these consumer rights, like Steam and E.A who both rejected the notion that they even do business in Australia, all to prevent issuing refunds. It's absurd. Telling a consumer they have no right to a refund when they do is even against the law here, yet Apple do it all the time.
Eventually I got to a senior representitve and they openly stated to me while denying my claim "I don't know why you expect me to know the laws in Australia". They bloody well should, though. Australia's consumer rights watchdog even forced Apple to display a notice on their website to prevent people being misled by Apple.
Warranty is 2 years minimum but manufacturers tend to add a voluntary 1 year warranty on top. The hope (often successfully) seems to be that customers "forget" that they still can claim warranty after more than one year.
for sure, and it is a minimum. Not sure how it works exactly, but if a device fails prematurely (within some reasonably determined expected lifetime) due to manufacturing errors you can claim warrant for longer. You might need legal counsel to actually get it though.
I have been through this exact process as well. Mine started to make the rattle noise and I used the chat support to get a replacement sent. Your credit card is "charged" in the event you don't send the broken headphone back. The charge is reversed upon Apple receiving the broken headphone. My replacement was free.
And also sucks as a warranty experience. Every other large company I've dealt with similarly (Amazon, Dish, Comcast, to name some) ship your replacement, and say that the return is due back to them within 30 days.
They don't charge (or even pre-auth) your card for you initiating a warranty replacement. I'm mind-blown (or maybe not, this is Apple) that people find this acceptable.
Sucks if you dont have a phone.
Sucks if you cant read..
etc.. There are some requirements you are expected to meet.
Buying a product online and replacing online requires some kind of wiretransfer. Creditcard or Payment card is the solution for all your woes. Don't fret.
> There are some requirements you are expected to meet.
> Buying a product online and replacing online requires some kind of wiretransfer.
Except it entirely doesn't: I've exchanged a faulty $3,000 camera on Amazon and they overnighted the replacement, and said that if I didn't return the faulty one within 30 days they'd charge me. They didn't pre-auth or hold funds.
Dish waits a month after I send back their DVR before even attempting to charge me for non return.
On warranty goods, when you are close to the richest company on the planet, "holding" customer funds on faulty warranty replacements is asinine and not at all "customer-centric".
Personally, I am unaffected. It makes this no less satisfactory.
Atleast where I live I would just have the charge cancelled by my credit card provider. Risk of shipping in cases of warranty is on the seller/manufacturer, Apple shouldn't be abusing customers like this.
This is a pretty short (and poorly styled) blog post that just links a much deeper dive, the latter of which should IMHO be where this submission links:
I like the functional design. It renders quite fast and it is really legible. We really should go back to the age of readability, our attention spans would be grateful.
I disagree. Good line spacing, comfortable page width (doesn't take up the full width of my monitor), clean & concise, no 'junk' surrounding the content. I'm not sure I see where you're coming from
Thanks, I wasn't sure if the parent comment referred to my writing or the blog design. The latter we try to keep as minimal as possible, with no JS (Except a tiny non-Google analytics snippet), ads, external fonts or other garbage on the page.
As another reply mentioned, it does not specify any particular font, so the choice of an ugly font is in fact yours. It looks pretty (to me) on my computer...
I explained why that’s not correct in a reply that was present at the time you made that comment. The fact that it’s monospace is due to CSS; whatever font family my browser picks, it will have to meet that criterion.
“Ugly” relative to the “not trying to signal” crowd, yes. The vast majority of websites don’t use monospace, and publishers in any medium try to move away from it as soon as it’s technically possible.
I like it and don't think it's ugly. If you don't like it then disable custom fonts in your browser so you don't have to see other people's "ugly" preferences.
That doesn't work; the problem is not that it specifies a font but that the CSS specifies "font-family: monospace"; I just verified that setting gfx.downloadable_fonts.enabled = false doesn't change anything. (Deleting that from the CSS works, as does using Reader Mode.)
But regardless, deliberately setting prose to be monospace is a poor styling choice, and it probably is a choice because that's usually to give the typewriter aesthetic.
Ah, yeah good point. Haha, for the worst hack ever you could override the font the browser users for monospaced font, at least in Firefox[0]. Obviously that breaks other legitimate uses of monospaced fonts. As for it being a poor styling choice, we'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
I actually prefer monospace, even for reading, so I wouldn't suggest it's just a matter of wanting to seem "quirky". I understand the frustration with disliking the font/style someone uses, but people have different preferences. (I could, for example, mention the preference for dark/light mode, or high/low-contrast.)
This happened to me four times in four months. Every time, it appeared one of the microphones was broken, because I would hear a buzzing, rattling, or clicking noise when in transparency or noise-canceling mode. The current set have both been good for a two or three months.
At least Apple has great service. When the Apple store was open I could just walk over there and get the broken AirPod swapped in minutes. After lockdown I needed to call Apple support and get them to mail me one, which would take a few days to show up.
Wow, so thats what it is? My Siri hasnt been working well and I just assumed the two were unrelated. Roughly every other sentence I dictate to Siri has the word 'Play' at the start of it as well, which must be related. I can wait 5 seconds after triggering siri to begin speaking and it is still prefixed with 'play'. No idea why but all these together sound like a support call is in order.
I had this problem with both left and right AirPods. I got a replacement, and a confirmation that it is a known issue. I currently live in Czechia, and there’re no official Apple stores here, but this hasn’t been a problem. I just had to wait a couple of days for the replacement.
Interestingly enough, I had a very similar issue with my Sony WH-1000XM3. They would click and pop whenever I moved my head, touched them, or simply when a door or window would open or close and produce a small change in air pressure. They would click several times in a row, every time with less intensity, before stopping. Extremely annoying. Just like with the Airpods, it would only happen with ANC on.
After a failed attempt to repair them in warranty, I just insisted on getting a new pair or my money back.
I am fairly confident that in both cases it was a hardware failure.
I have some friends that live in CZ and they still all call it Czech Republic and hate the new Czechia name. This is my first time hearing anyone refer to it by that name before.
I lived here before and after the official name change. Everyone I know still calls it "Czech Republic" - "Czechia" feels weird and unnatural to me.
Additionally it sounds quite close to "Čechy" - what in English we call "Bohemia" - which refers only to the western half of the country (see [1]). So it reminds me a little bit of when people call the UK "England" - so as a Scot living in Moravia I sympathise a little with some locals who feel a bit irked by it :-)
I read recently that one of the leaders of .cz likes the name and one of the leaders hates it.
I'm not a fan because to me it's too similar to Chechnya. In fact, that's what I thought the parent poster was talking about until your comment was posted.
The clicking/popping is a well-known issue for the Sony WH-1000XM2/3, and my wife had her XM2s refunded because of it. The pair of XM3 on my head has, so far, not shown any problems even while riding a bike in windy conditions.
I had this problem with my AirPods Pro, too. Funny thing though... I have intermittent tinnitus in my left ear, and it took me a few weeks to realize it wasn’t my ears making the noise but rather a problem w the AirPods. I had been switching between noise-cancelling and transparency mode, swapping ears, etc to see if it would go away. It didn’t, so I assumed it wasn’t an audio processing issue. Then one day I realized I hadn’t tested on “off” mode (since you only get to this mode through the UI I had forgotten it even existed). The noise issue went away instantly. Called Apple and they replaced it without hassle.
Still kinda blows me away that this issue sounded so identical to my tinnitus that I literally couldn’t tell the difference.
Wow! I'm in the same boat. I've had tinnitus for a while and at first I thought it was just my ears being weird. It got way worse though (the rattling) and I was able to tell the difference.
I always wonder with "gates" like this: how many people (what percentage) are affected?
For example, I never had an issue ever with my AirPods Pro since I bought them six months ago. Does that make me the outlier? Or is it just that 1% have issues, but they are very vocal about it (for understanable reasons)?
Something I learnt many years ago when I worked in sales was that a happy customer might tell one or two people but a pissed off one will tell everybody.
That said it doesn't negate the underlying issue if it's a real one.
A Reason why Apple is affected relatively often is the huge volumes of products they ship. No other manufacturer ships that many identical phones and probably no one has shipped that many identical headphones over such a short time frame.
Even a problem affecting only 0.01% has a sizeable number of affected customers if you ship 100 million devices. If you only ship 1 million, that same problem is much less likely to find public support. Apple already has good quality control (my opinion) but to reach the same level of public complains as other companies, they need to be several magnitudes better.
There is also the expectation of quality, given the branding, price and the presentation. If a $50 pair of headphones break, it's not a big deal. If a $300 pair of headphones break (repeatedly, it seems), you start to talk about it.
This would be an explanation if most people wouldn't report that the replacement had the same issues, which points more to an engineering problem than a 0.01% rate.
Quality is a broad concept. Warranties are probably more about durability and cost of replacement. Two manufacturers giving the same period of warranty (no matter how long and no matter the number of items they sell) probably expect the same failure rate or service costs as % of their margin. The functionality can be much different though.
Apple sold over 60 millions AirPods. Even if 0.01% is affected - thats 6,000 negative complaints for you. The page that is linked to the post has about 200 quoted complaints.
Most people won't post about it though. I had this exact issue (replaced the left airpod 2 weeks ago) but hadn't posted about it. Until this post, anyway!
> It seems this is very widespread. Just a quick internet search turns up tons of people having the same issue. Sadly, most people think it is specific to them, that they've done something wrong, or they're waiting for a firmware update to see if that fixes it.
That doesn’t really answer the question. They’ve sold tens of millions so a rare and obscure problem is going to turn up tons of people.
I’m sure there’s something going on, but it’s very hard to tell how widespread it is. Apple knows, but won’t tell world. If they start an out-of-warranty replacement program, that will be a hint.
Well thats a bummer to hear. I finally pulled the trigger and upgraded to the Pro after a pretty happy/successful run with the originals (1G).
Actually my revelation that the Pros are inferior came on the first day before I even popped them in my ear. You can tell just by holding the 1Gs and the Pros in your hand: note the clearance between the lid and body on the 1G is almost non-existent compared to the Pro - a sign of better build quality. When you pop open the lid on the Pros, you note they dont fit snugly in the case. You can easily wiggle them around making me wonder if the charging contact will be a problem later on.
Given the speed with which I had charging problems, it surprises me that I don't hear more people complaining about it. The metal contacts inside the case of mine don't seem to protrude enough. I can usually get it to work again with a q-tip... but not by cleaning. I kind of put it down and swirl it around until it catches on the metal and pulls them out again a bit. Without that, no amount of jiggling or pressing will get charging contact. Then it happens again a few days later. The right side started doing it first. The left one followed a few months later.
But, i just had my own 'rattlegate' around the time of this post, and apple replaced the case under warranty for me with the bad pod, at least.
I'm on my 3rd or 4th pair. The current ones need to be replaced as they rattle, first appearing in the left now the right are progressively following suit.
They are convenient and work well, however the fault rates are incredible. As soon as apple store opens back up I'll be replacing them for 5th time. At this point, I have given up and probably go back to SoundMagic in ears or something with noise cancelling that I can use while riding my motorbike.
PS: I didn't purchase apple care, and my friends/colleagues haven't had any issues.
Antidotally I am a heavy airpod pro user, averaging seven hours a day. I have two pairs so one is always at full power. I have not experienced this problem.
Is there a hardware piece physically rattling inside? Or is this a software issue?
I have the new airpods but haven't had any issues (besides a single airpod sometimes not syncing with my phone at first). For what it's worth, I rarely ever use the mic.
EDIT: other sources are saying it is actually a hardware problem. But there's nothing actually "loose" that's physically rattling as far as people can tell (specially since noise cancellation off minimizes the problem)
It's hardware 100%. I had that thing on my left one first only in noise cancellation and close to max volume. But then I dropped it onto asphalt and that thing became loud af in any mode on any volume. Doubt that the drop affected the software.
Aren't the AirPods pretty tightly packed and full of glue? You'd think there'd be very little tolerance for something to rattle about in there (not that I know what it sounds like).
I don't think it was something physically coming dislodged, at least in my case. When in noise cancelling or transparency, and I spoke I would get static in the right AirPod. If I wasn't speaking or hearing any other external sounds coming in, the speaker was fine.
For me this issue persists even in all the other "modes". The support chat advised me to take off the rubber tips and try them without for testing and it didn't make any rattle noises then. I don't really understand how that can be the reason.
There is a middle option? I've only been able to find out about the 'NC' mode or transparency, switching between them is holding the 'stick' of the Airpod for a few seconds.
I just dropped my left airpod pro replacement in the mail today. Fingers crossed this works, I had the right one replaced just three months ago for not charging. The "seal test" never works either for both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I do agree these have by far been the most needy/buggy pair of wireless headphones I've owned in the past 5 years (Beats, Bose, Sony, Anker, B&O). Yes, I own a lot of headphones
I have replaced my right AirPod (1 in 3 months), but as yet, these don't hold a candle to the PowerBeats3. I think I went through 5 replacements in 1.5 years.
With PowerBeats, I had to send in the headphones for warranty repair, losing any use (in the couple of cases they maybe, kind of kept working). For the replacement AirPod, at least Apple sent the replacement before I had to send it back to them.
Oh wild, I didn't know this was widespread. Happened in my left airpod pro, and went through Apple Support to get a replacement mailed out. Hasn't happened to the right one yet, though I _did_ notice a real difference in audio quality between the new left and the old right. I'm kind of hoping it starts to rattle so I can more-easily get a replacement for it, honestly?
Up until the other day, I had only needed to replace my AirPods twice so far. But then the microphone died on the right one and now I will need to replace them yet again.
I love my AirPods but this is so incredibly frustrating.
Pro tip: Use the Voice Memo app to determine which microphone is failing, and then go into the Bluetooth settings. You can make the microphone default to the side that isn't broken.
Sheesh, this is a big reason why I dislike Airpods. They've turned headphones/earbuds into a piece of disposable tech.
Apple wants to be normalize the purchase of a new pair of earbuds every year. It sounds like you're about to be on your 4th pair since 2017. Even just having to replace them twice seems excessive.
I'm on my second pair of corded over the ear headphones since 2008. My current ones still work, but one of the ear cushions is starting to fall apart. Instead of throwing all the electronics away, I can just get a new ear piece on eBay for $3
I hear this a lot, but headphones and earbuds are distinct products, and earbuds have always been semi-disposable for me.
I've only ever had one pair of headphones, which are on their third (fourth?) cable and needed muff replacement on one side.
Earbuds? The corded ones last me 2 to 6 months before the thin copper in the cabling work-hardens and breaks.
Airpods are semi-disposable as well, and much more expensive, but convenient and nice, while lasting quite a bit longer than corded earbuds. My first pair lasted 18 months, and the battery was fine, I just blew out the speakers. I value not being tethered to my phone.
Your mileage may vary, I'm kinda hard on my stuff.
You can buy earbuds with a metal faceplate and replaceable cables as well as excellent audio quality for around 40$. They aren't disposable at all, it's just the cheap ones we get pushed.
And when you open them, the wires are color-coated, and the connector is held in place using screws (!)
That's fair, in general I wouldn't expect small earbuds to be as repairable or durable as full on headphones.
OTOH, I've been able to keep a pair of wired earbuds going for another year with heat shrink tubing. Even though that isn't great, just that new lease on life I've been able to give them sounds like it's comparable to the Airpods MTBF.
I can't recommend getting some good quality earbuds from China, with metal faceplates (or entirely metal) and replaceable wires, enough. Cables cost 4$, you can buy a second one off the get-go, and if the connector breaks at least for mine you can simply unscrew the connector, replace it (it's a standard), and resolder the two wires.
The key is to spend a bit more and do your research, mine cost 40$ and will probably last a decade. To name them, the model is KZ ZSX - the sound quality is absolutely excellent too, and there are impulse response files to make them sound almost completely perfect.
There are also other more reputable brands such as Shure, but AFAIK none that will make headphones with metal faceplates for under 150$.
I love buying gear that I can take care of and otherwise maintain. This includes a fountain pen - a Lamy 2000 that writes wonderfully and holds plenty of ink - and a pair of wired Shures.
Previously I had a great pair of earbuds from MeeElectronics (now MEE Audio) that lasted a couple years. The sweet spot for me is to buy quality gear that satisfies my needs; not too cheap and not too expensive.
I fully expect to lose my Shures or my Lamy before they break, and I like it that way.
Edit: maybe I'm just really careful with my gear, but I always coil my cables nicely - over/under or a similar method, and I let them fold the same way each time. My cables last forever, including earbud cables.
I mean, professional in-ear monitors have always been disposable tech, because they’re used by performers who treat them very harshly (which is most of the point of the product category in the first place.)
Insofar as AirPods Pro are “Pro” in that sense, I would imagine their target audience is used to it.
The author calls out Apple for the ecological implications for replacing faulty AirPods every few months, but accepts no responsibility for purchasing the AirPods himself-- the product is designed around an embedded battery that can't be serviced and has a limited lifespan.
If you want ecological headphones, you could buy ones with no battery or a replaceable battery.
I had my faulty Airpod replaced via mail after calling them. They ship you a working one with a return label and you have a few days to send your broken one back. They also put a hold on a card as a deposit.
No idea why Apple, one of the richest companies in the world, and "all about the customer" needs to place a hold on my card for a warranty replacement. I've exchanged a faulty $3,000 camera on Amazon and they overnighted the replacement, and said that if I didn't return the faulty one within 30 days they'd charge me. They didn't pre-auth or hold funds.
In order to get the replacement, I needed to know the serial number of the AirPods but didn’t need to provide any proof of purchase (I wasn’t the original buyer of the AirPods). This suggests to me that anyone who can get AirPod serial numbers could get free AirPods sent to them by contacting customer service. Absent the credit card hold, it seems like a good way to steal a lot of AirPods. I would guess at Apple’s scale, someone probably has done this scheme in the past so they need to find a way to prevent it (even if it never happened with AirPods, it probably happened with iPhones). Asking for the credit card hold upfront is a little unfriendly, but a lot better than dealing with a bunch of anti-fraud/collections work. It’s also much more friendly than requiring the customer to send in the broken AirPods first to get a replacement (this is the most common repair service I’ve experienced from other manufacturers, and it’s painful enough that I usually just try to fix the thing myself or throw it away).
I’d say the credit card/mailing method is also not Apple’s preferred means of exchange - it’s the backup for when the Apple Store is unavailable. At the store you hand them the AirPods when you get your replacement so there’s no need to provide a deposit.
I contacted apple support and got a new pair. Free (with credit card hold until I sent the defective pair back).
So far so good.
But if it happens again... yeah not sustainable.
My guess is that the damage to Apple's brand name that occurs with each replacement is larger than the cost of replacing the product.
I once had an expensive brand of computer mouse. After eight months the mouse failed. Later I bought another mouse from the same brand. The mouse failed after 14 months. I stopped buying from the brand. The same thing can happen to Apple, and they need to be careful about the quality of the products they sale when they charge premium prices.
You'd be very wrong. Component cost (not including any assembly cost) for any modern flagship smart phone is well north of $100. North of $300 on most phones.
Same here I had both replaced, but they would only let me replace one and later the other. Replacing was great at first, I observed that the first few days the sealing test was perfect, but already the test is not passing. I m pretty sure it’s a hardware problem, could be shock resistance could be wax could be humidity but it looks like the mic (or many?) who is needed to do the noise cancellation gets faulty somehow. If it’s a design issue I guess the only option will be to wait for the next gen, apple might offer a discount if you bring back your pro but I’m pretty sure they won’t do a thing unless this becomes a public issue (maybe the European Commission or some class action) too bad as I love this product hopefully the next gen will fix it
Apple will replace your AirPod Pros if you have this problem. You can submit the request online and they will just send you a new pair. Most likely you fall under the support warranty period, and it will be at no cost to yourself.
In the article the writer says that they've had to do multiple replacements so far, and having to get replacement AirPods every several months isn't sustainable or convenient.
Writer here: Yes, they replaced them twice and currently in the process of replacement number 3. I'll just see if I can get a refund though. I'll wait for the next generation.
Question for everyone with the Rattlegate problem: Do you brush your teeth with an electronic toothbrush while you hear something with your headphones? My theory is that various micro vibrations cause the problem :D
I noticed that the rattling was most noticeable when I brushed my teeth with my electronic toothbrush. Not sure if the toothbrush caused it or not. I eventually got the faulty AirPod replaced.
I have the problem since a few weeks, and no I’ve never done anything with microvibrations while wearing them.
I do wear the case close to my body, so it may be adhesive weakening caused by heat. That would explain why some people don’t have it at all and some see it happen 4 times in a row.
I had a 'rattling' issue, but mine correlated with moving my head. If I held very still, the sound was fine. This didn't happen at first, it developed over time. I wondered if the issue was either loose/dirty silcone tips, even though I was wearing the best fitting size (and they passed the ios ear tip test). Cleaning the tips didn't make a difference.
So I bought some new foam tips from www.complyfoam.com , and to my pleasant surprise, the rattling stopped.
Not sure if this is different from the vast number of other reports, but fyi.
The over-usage of the "-gate" addition to anything that people take issue with is getting old as fuck. Seriously, can people not come up with something better? Also, is it truly a conspiracy? That's what an association to Watergate is... that or just breaking the law. neither of which is what is going on. I really, seriously doubt that Apple is conspiring to have their earbuds rattle.
Please, for the love of everything sane, stop using "-gate" to catch eyes with your clickbait captions and titles.
Does anyone know a workaround for having to switch microphone to Internal on MacBook Pro every time you connect AirPods Pro to avoid terrible sound quality?
That's just Bluetooth being Bluetooth. You can either have good sound quality but no mic or shit sound quality and mic.
I'm surprised and disappointed that Apple, despite the proprietary W1 chip in the AirPods didn't build a custom protocol to work around this limitation.
1. Open Utilities -> Audio Midi Setup
2. In the left pane click + and add a new aggregate device
3. Add your internal mic to the aggregate device
4. Go to System Preferences -> Sound and select the aggregate device as your input
Unlike the 'raw' internal mic device this one should stay active when you disconnect / connect your headphones.
I've never found a better solution than this :( Kind of shocking that this is required - but it works.
Oh boy, at least it's only annoying. Not sure if this is just because I use 3rd-party bluetooth headphones (bose QC35) and inadequate Apple software testing, but if I try to use headphones for audio and switch to the internal macbook mic, Facetime either freezes or crashes every time.
OK, they did BSOD every Windows 10 machine I've tried them on after a few minutes. But when I only have them paired to my iPhone (and only my iPhone), they're perfect.
Bluetooth has many modes. The regular audio one is A2DP which sounds good but has no mic support. Then there is HSP which sounds like a tin can microphone broadcast over AM radio. I imagine apple has something proprietary to do 2 way audio on the airpods tho.
I've had the same issue. And another, more important one: the noise-cancelling/passthrough features have gradually ceased to work entirely. I replaced one bud when this started happening and was making things asymmetrical (super annoying), then noticed the new one was noise-cancelling more than the "still good" one, indicating that the other one had started degrading too. Eventually both of them stopped working for anything but basic playback.
I've heard theories that the outer mics can get clogged with ear wax over time, and I tried several different strategies for cleaning them. I even bought entirely new rubber caps, just in case that contributed. Nothing I did worked. Eventually I just gave up and bought another pair of the regular AirPods, which had always worked reliably (I gave away my first pair as a gift when I got the Pros).
It's honestly shameful that such an expensive product can be so problematic, but I got weary of being upset about it and just wanted to get on with my life.
I had connectivity issues on mine. One or the other would stubbornly not go into NC mode, or you’d see iOS say “Noise Cancelling” but it would actually be transparency mode, and had not fully shifted. Haven’t had too many issues since I had the entire set replaced, but it was multiple calls and a fair amount of headache when juggling returning each of the AirPods shipments and returns. Two of the boxes, the case and left AirPod Pro arrived one day, the right AirPod Pro was stuck at FedEx and would ship the next day. Why couldn’t they be replaced in one box the way I bought them, I wondered... Overall, the AirPods Pro are impressive but hardly foolproof... yet?
Started a couple of weeks on my pair. Called up Apple. The support representative didn't ask me a lot of questions and said I'd get a replacement Airpods for free.
Then I got quoted for a £75 deposit held until sent back the broken one back and no clarity from the representative on when the deposit would be repaid. So I just issued a replacement request with Amazon instead.
Wow. I have the same problem. I just got my left AirPod Pro replaced at the Apple Store last wednesday because of rattling. (It appears to only happen in noise canceling mode. When noise canceling is off it doesn't rattle).
A couple days later I started to notice the right airpod is rattling.
I've used up my warranty now so would have to buy a new pair if I want this fixed.
I've also been dealing with rattling and buzzing noises in my airpods pro. Usually (but not always) turning noise cancellation mode off fixes the issue, but that totally defeats the purpose of having the pro model. Not to mention they are nowhere near as comfortable in your ear as the base-model airpods. Definitely a disappointing purchase
This might be off topic or overly pedantic but why must this be referred to as 'rattlegate'? How is this a 'gate'? In what way does a line of rattling heaphones resemble an incident where the president of the united States was caught incriminating himself on tape in a hotel? Why must this term be used for everything?
About a hotel break-in, while in the White House. Not in a hotel.
But -gate has long since genericized into a suffix for scandal/coverup, it's not going back. Maybe someday it'll be replaced by something better – but that'd require some affirmative new coinage that signifies the intended meaning(s) even better.
As it happens, the situation described in the article hardly counts as a scandal or coverup, either - about the worst allegation that can be drawn from it is poor QA or process engineering.
Unfortunately, it's Apple themselves who effectively expanded the meaning of -gate when they refused to acknowledge the antenna issue in an iPhone version (5, iirc). They were trying a coverup ("you're holding it wrong!"). Antennagate transitioned -gate into "large-scale hardware manufacturing problem that company won't admit", and here we are.
I totally agree that it's a bit annoying, but considering the number of minor quibbles that have now been suffixed with -gate [1], the battle is probably lost and it's best to just accept it and move on.
I agree, there has to be an active cover-up or scandal for it to be a "-gate".
But more importantly, your summary of Watergate is wonderful. It reminds me of John Mulaney's line about the NY Post: "It's like you're talking to someone who heard the news, and now they're trying to give you the gist."
I'll let the other pedantics on HN correct you, I'll just encourage you to go read up a bit on the topic so you get the bits in the right order.
To reify something you have to name it, apparently.
I see nothing wrong about it. Apple spends billions on R&D yet still manages to push crap designs to the market (as evidenced by Louis Rossmann).
If naming something *-gate will make a dent in the public's "premium" image of Apple, I'm all for it. They sell the same crap as others, just overpriced, maybe with software that's better in some aspects.
Apple almost never owns up to their mistakes when it comes to defective product design.
Apple has an excellent warranty, takes care of their customers, so they totally cover defective products out of their own pockets. and Louis Rossmann is clueless about good product design.
It also doesn't seem like Apple is simply ignoring the issue. They aren't advertising issues with the AirPods pro, but there are support documents which discuss the issue, possible solutions and to contact support if it continues.
Based on my experience and anecdotes presented here, it seems people having this problem are getting it replaced.
Lots of words lose their original impact and become widespread. Decimate was originally used to refer to killing 10% of a company's soldiers as collective punishment or something like that, but today we use it for much less serious events (and usually ignore the actual percentage magnitude).
It does seem silly. The name of the hotel where the break-in occurred was Watergate. If it had been a Marriott Courtyard I suppose we'd be calling this "Rattleyard".
I like to think how everything must be so right in the world were this people live that what makes them the most active and angry is their pieces of cheap consumer electronics not working perfectly.
And yeah your Airpods are cheap, $250 for a wireless noise cancelling pair of headphones that fit in a pocket is wonderfully cheap and Apple can only sustain that pricing because this fashionable products are almost a loss leader.
Is there a source for that? Similar products are only a fraction of the cost of Airpods. Granted, they don't work as well, but that's to be expected as Apple has complete control over the device.
Accessories like this are generally where Apple has enjoyed huge margins.
I'm kind of surprised so many people are having issues in this thread. This is probably the only apple product that hasn't caused problems for me. My iPad constantly has weird internet disconnect issues, I have the faulty keyboard on my macbook pro that's just unnaceptable, but never had an issues with the airpod pros.
I had my left AirPod Pro replaced in the past few weeks. It was straightforward and effortless to get support via iMessage, and I got a replacement in 2 days. It seemed a bit too easy, to be honest, so I figured Apple knows about this issue and is trying to solve it as quietly as possible.
Am I the only one who prefers the original Airpods to the Airpods Pro? I have both but I haven't used the Pro ones in months. I find the NC to be a little finicky, but more than that, I just don't like the way the ambient environment sounds when I'm wearing them. This is especially true when I'm not listening to something. With the Airpods, I'll often just leave them in my ears for hours whether I'm listening or not. With the Pros, I feel like I have to take them out if I'm not actively listening to something. I also don't like that I have to squeeze them for controls instead of just tapping (but maybe there's an option for that somewhere).
I have good over-the-ear headphones for when I really need noise cancelling, and the rest of the time, the Airpods are perfect for me.
Yep, I'm having the same issue. Got my left replaced, then about 2 days later my right started. I haven't gotten around to swapping the right yet as I didn't want to do them to close together and have them be like, HEYY!
Same happening for about 5 weeks now with my left and now a little bit on the right. Had the right replaced earlier because it kept randomly buzzing.
It's actually really helpful to see that it doesn't happen when Noise Control is Off, since I failed to notice that. That gives me a mode that works temporarily.
Had no real issue getting replacements(for both sides since I think it's starting on the right too) in the mail just now (since my local Apple stores are closed). Do need to provide a credit card hold / deposit until you return the old ones. Last time my replacement included fresh ear tips too so a small bonus for the trouble.
> Support agreed that this is a problem and sent a new AirPod.
I've had this problem with companies, too.
I owned a Belkin router. If the microwave was on, WiFi devices "connected" to the router would lose the connection. The router's front panel LED would go from green to red.
When the microwave was done, sometimes the WiFi would recover … sometimes it wouldn't.
Support agreed that this was a problem and sent me a new router.
It, of course, had the same issue. I sort of understand the WiFi and the microwave interfering. I do not understand why it should persist even after the microwave is off.
Oh well. I later changed to Comcast's router. If you enter in WPA2-PSK key (not a password, an actual key) and you power-cycle the router (which happens automatically on occasion) the router will reset the key to the factor default password. But only the password/key changes, not the SSID or any other settings.
Support agreed that this was a problem and sent me a new router. (I… actually didn't want a new router, I just wanted to make them aware of the issue, but okay.)
And yeah, that one of course does the exact same thing because it's a software bug, not a hardware one, and I'm the only person on the planet choosing a key by random generation.
So now I feed the output from urandom through base64 to make it a password, which goes through whatever KDF (at least, I hope it's a KDF, but my gut doesn't trust WPA2 that much) WPA2 uses just to get random data into more random data. Or, IDK, perhaps I should just give up and declare WiFi patently insecure and just craft a nice riddle for the password.
It is sort of along the lines of something else I've noticed: there are a ton of companies, who, in one way or another, sell software, but have absolutely no public-facing bug tracker, and doom their support agents to just fielding the same bugs all day, which, practically speaking, they likely just /dev/null those reports, and in the same breath, their marketing department will shove the words "valued customer" down your eyeballs.
Yah this sounds like a leaky microwave interfering with the 2.4GHz band. I've had it happen with older microwaves in university housing interfering with the ubiquiti APs that they had on site.
I don’t know if it’s still “a thing” or whether showing my years here, but wouldn’t you be better served by setting up a RADIUS-based authentication system?
I used to have one at home (2011-2016), using nothing but a Mac Mini Server (which was mainly deducted to other tasks) to serve as the RADIUS authority and a perfectly normal Apple AirPort network.
Worked perfectly for years. The only reason I retired the system is that a home server and systems such as those are a bit of an overkill for somebody who lives alone, used the same three devices regularly, and basically just wanted to go home and forget about enterprise IT-type stuff.
I've also had mine since early November last year, and also use them many hours a day, mostly at my desk. Never dropped. Either left on desk in case or carried in a trouser pocket with nothing else except my iPhone.
They were absolutely perfect until about ~6 weeks ago, when the right bud started to make an awful tinny noise (which I thought was imperfect cancellation, and a software bug of some kind) when I coughed, which it had never done before.
Yesterday, I started getting the rattling sound when walking, right earbud only. Goes away for a couple of steps if you take it out and reseat it, then comes straight back. Rattles in time with footstep.
Since it's an impulse thing for me (force of cough, force of bouncing when walking), I'm guessing defective connection (defective solder joint?) that is misbehaving when stressed?
dont have AirPods but had over the ear headphones that had similar rattling issues that were just the result of a small hair getting through the mesh and interacting with the driver
My regular airpods, which are now three years old, are tanks. I use them now exclusively for running/exercising and they won't die. My new ones are better for the sound isolation/listening to music, but they rattle now and do migrate out of my ears when I talk too much, so the latter part of meetings is usually a little annoying with me needing to constantly re-adjust them.
My old AirPods went through the washer on accident and wouldn't power on. After dunking them in some rubbing alcohol and charging them, they still work flawlessly to this day.
Same here. The battery is obviously not what it was (I get about 90mins of phone calls before I have to start the 1-in-ear-1-charging dance), but apart from that, and despite my typically abusive treatment (fell on tarmac and tiles multiple times), they still work great. I was considering a switch to the Pro but after this post I'll have to reconsider...
Does anyone have a problem with their AirPods (not Pro) suddenly seeming dead silent? I've cleaned my AirPods very carefully and they are spotless. I've also had my ears cleaned out, but my AirPods seem to be whisper quiet. I've done all the tricks of trying to reconnect and disconnect and checked all the volume settings. Any advice here would be really welcome.
I used an ultra fine point and covered it in a tiny hard wax ball to clean off my AirPods. I bet they're cleaner than even new ones at this point. No clue why they still sound so faint.
Only sort of related but I hate how I sometimes get the impression that review sites do not take the date of review into the account when presenting a final rating.
For example I got an Instant Pot once. It worked fine for a year. Then one day I was steaming some lentils and it just shut off. No error or anything, it just shut off without a sound and never turned back on.
And because my continued existence was basically contingent on that Instant Pot I began to starve.
So I bought another.
Two weeks later it was dead in exactly the same manner.
And I went back to starving.
Then I went back and read the most recent reviews on Amazon and realized that if I had paid attention I might have noticed that so many other people were having the same kind of problem and various other mechanical failures and leaving one-star reviews. But because the reviews section was swamped by five star reviews from years ago that got highly upvoted, I didn't notice. At least, that was my impression.
I think it might be hard to change the public's mind if you have a large group of people leaving reviews saying "it works great" in the first few months of the product being released, and you build up this false credibility. Then suddenly a defect occurs that only appears after a very long period, say a year or more, and people don't bother to update the five star review and figure it's time to buy a new pressure cooker anyways.
If there were some way of verifying this were the case it would certainly be frustrating.
Do all the people who wrote those five-star reviews years ago that haven't been edited still use the product and never had it break on them after a few years?
Eventually I got a Yedi and it's more convenient since the pressure valve never clogs like it did with the Instant Pot all the time and is automatic release. I get the impression that it's just better engineered and Instant Pot was just overhyped garbage. But still that's my impression because I've had it for only a month and can't judge if I'll be able to keep using it for another year yet. Maybe I just got lucky.
Look at how Steam does reviews. If a developer releases a patch several months after initial release that improves or breaks something, you have a better chance to know about it since they have a separate rating for only the most recent reviews. And sometimes the difference between the two is stark. I would say this is innovative. More sites with review systems really ought to follow suit.
I had this exact same thing happen with the Powerbeats Pro. A buzzing that would change in intensity relative to head movement. No music. Annoyingly I noticed just before I packaged them to return that they were working normally again. As expected they came back untouched. They’ve not done it since but now I feel I own a pair of time bombs.
I’ve got a similar problem a couple of months ago - so had around 6 months of problem-free operation, and then it started out of blue in only one headphone. Rattling or static noise is added only to certain sounds, looks like depending on their frequency, and is very audible when noise canceling mode is on, otherwise it’s almost inaudible,
I had this after I dropped my right earbud ~3 feet. There was a click every time I took a step with noise canceling or transparency mode. The outer grille on mine was very barely dented. I think this caused the external mic to pick up unexpected noise and try to cancel noise that wasn't there.
That article is so ridiculous and over the top I have a hard time even taking it seriously:
"People in working or impoverished economic classes are responsible for the life-threatening, exhaustive, violent work of removing their parts from the ground and assembling them. Meanwhile, people in the global upper class design and purchase AirPods."
Admittedly not tiny little wireless earbuds, and costing twice what airpods do, my Sony XM3 noise cancelling headset had 30 hours of battery life when it was new.
After 1 year of full day usage during the work week, they last 24 hours. Kinda surprised the Airpods battery dies so quick.
Are AirPods any worse for the environment than any other electronic device? You could argue that they are unnecessary but they don't seem to be any different than older bluetooth earbuds or any other device that is plastic with a rechargeable battery.
I had this problem; Apple just replaced the affected earbud. Hasn't recurred, it's been a few months.
But, I mean, I've had problems with most of the IEMs I've ever bought at one point or another. It's just that you don't get to the top of HN with a post about a pattern of Shure product defects.
I was just on Apple's support page for this exact issue. I ordered my pros on launch day so I was hoping it was a quality control issue from the first batch.
One thing I've noticed is that the rattling noise goes away if I disable noise cancellation. It seems to be an issue with the NC microphones.
I've had two replacements on my AirPods Pro so far because of this issue.
First time the issue started after 6 months of use. The second time was within a week of the original replacement. All good so far after the second replacement (about a month).
Fortunately Apple makes the replacement process easy.
Had the same problem, spoke with Apple Support over text, got a replacement sent overnight to me with free return shipping. The only thing that could have gone better is it never happening in the first place, but overall, I'm pleased with how it was handled.
I had this problem with my left AirPod Pro for a few weeks and it was super-annoying. I chatted with Apple support and they replaced it in a couple of days. But it was annoying having to try a bunch of random things that clearly weren't going to work.
I've had my pair replaced for this too. It seems to be an issue with the NC mics. When neither NC nor Transparency are on, I didn't get the issue. Apple will do an Express Replacement (2-day new pair, _then_ you mail old pair back) which is nice.
Possibly. It started out with just the "rattle" in noise cancellation or transparency mode. Then I started noticing it any time I talked on the phone/zoom/etc... (I have a deeper voice) then it started without the mic being used at all (NC completely off, just music or podcasts) ... Now the other pod is doing the same thing.
My left AirPod pro began rattling. It's obviously annoying/upsetting that this is an issue, but AppleCare+ support was awesome. I chatted with Apple on a Thursday and on Friday I had a new left AirPod Pro via overnight mail. No cost to me.
Yes! This has been driving me insane. I spent an hour on support with Apple, was sent to Best Buy, but do to COVID-19, cannot get an "appointment" for a replacement for 2 months... I should have opted for a mailed replacement. :/
> It also started to behave weird as soon as there was a bit of wind.
Heh evenmy sony mx3s do this in the wind.
So is that the problem? Noise cancelling failure? Generally noise cancelling has problems with wind, air pods are the kind that probably see a lot of use outdoors.
I'll add that my Bose headphones have also always have trouble in the wind. That's to that there not be something wrong with the airpods/bose, but Sony's have a distinct advantage
Haha I just received a new left AirPod Pro. I was wondering why they send it so fast and I thought maybe they know this problem, send me a replacement so I don’t ask any more questions. Rattlegate seems to be an appropriate name for this!
I just got my AirPods Pro replaced last week due to the same issue, it started with some squeaking sounds, but eventually it became a loud rattling sound and it became unusable.
Stopped by the Apple Store and they just replaced both he left and right one.
I had a different issue. My right AirPod Pro just flat out refused to connect. It was still “hissing” from the NC and making the click noise from the pause gesture. But it wouldn’t connect to my phone, even after resetting the Airopds.
Yep this happened to me too after a few weeks of owning them. Luckily a trip to the Apple store and they replaced straight away. It made me question them at the time though. The guy said it wasn’t common back then
I had this same problem. One of them rattled so loudly I couldn’t hear anything else while walking. Had it replaced and then noticed the other one is doing it, but much quieter...for now.
Had this issue on AirPods Pro, first with the left ear approx. 2 months after purchase and then with the right ear approx. 6 months after purchase. In both cases Apple replaced at no cost.
This has happened to me with both my left and right AirPod, Apple was pretty good about replacing them but it was obviously still annoying especially since they’re $400 earbuds.
I didn’t reply to any comment that was talking about the price in the USA, state or suggest I was talking about how much they might cost in the USA and the article was not discussing anything USA specific.
> "Dollar (symbol: $) is the name of more than 20 currencies, including those of Australia, Brunei, Canada, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Liberia, Namibia, New Zealand, Singapore, Taiwan and the United States." - Wikipedia
When you talk about the price of pacemakers, penicillin or Wifi do you expect everyone to talk about them in AUD just because they were invented there?
Just because you (presumably) live the USA doesn’t mean the rest of the internet does.
I don't have this problem, but a lot of times my right airpod pro does not connect, so i have to put it back to the case, wait a few seconds ant try again.
> The first generation of the AirPods was generally regarded as a perfect product
If you don't care about sound quality, isolation, noise cancelation, mic quality, or using it with a non-apple device of any kind, sure. In other words, if you primarily care about form and only peripherally about function.
The first generation was never advertised as having a noise cancellation feature so I'm not sure why that that should be a negative point. They also work well with non-apple devices as they can just be paired via Bluetooth like any other wireless headphones.
A perfect product would be a product which has all the features you would want. How do you adjust their onboard eq from your Android phone? Change their settings in any other way than volume?
Unless you use the word perfect to mean something other than "having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics".
They didn't advertise any isolation or noice cancelation features, did they?
> if you primarily care about form and only peripherally about function
Well yeah the form was the revolutionary bit about the AirPods. I'm sure I could get a longer list of fancy functionality squeezed into an ugly pair of baubles if I didn't care about form, but what I want is something tiny and simple for daily use. I think that's what most people want outside the tech bubble.
Yet again Apple showing that a genuinely well-formed product is better than something that looks better technically on paper from the list of functionality.
Creating a great product isn't about functionality Top Trumps as you think it is.
The standard for something to be perfect isn't just that it only has the features which it is advertised to have. Lots of terrible cars aren't advertised as having very low road noise; that doesn't make them perfect cars.
Lots of people don’t want isolation or noise cancellation, only need them to work with Apple products, and find the audio quality more than acceptable. It has nothing to do with “form” over function. In fact the original Airpods are quite superior in function to any similar product at the same price point.
Never need to worry about charging them, soft replacable rubber cups fit into my asymmetrically-sized earholes, they're always there waiting in my bag on the rare occasion I want to use them, I am gonna be so sad when my 6s breaks and I have to replace it with either an Android phone or an iPhone with no audio jack, maybe I'll just get one of those lightning⟷audio adaptors and keep it on the earbuds forever.
I still do not see how the Airpods are an improvement in any way.
Cables. It's fair if they are not a problem for you, but they are for me and getting rid of them is a gamechanger. I move around a lot all day, most days. They were constantly getting caught in things throughout my day and pulling at my ear in a very unpleasant way, or got caught snagged on something like ladder I'm climbing and would go flying out of my ears. Hatred.
Airpods (not pro) are fantastic for what they are. They last for hours, charge in minutes, pair reliably with my iphone 11 and sound very ok. Not great, but not bad. Ok. Perfect for podcasts, audiobooks, lectures, and calls I have to take throughout the day.
The famous photography advice "the best camera in the world is the one you have on you when you need to take a picture" definitely applies. It lets me listen to spoken word and a little music very comfortability throughout the day, and I have big cans at home for everything else.
Chiming in to agree -- the original AirPods made a serious difference to how much I listened to things. I was skeptical before I tried them, but the subtle inconvenience of cables turned out to be a huge subconscious factor to me. The convenient case (and not having to deal with wrapping cables up to put them away in it...) also helped, of course.
I'm luckily one of the people that isn't suffering from this rattling issue and I own both the AirPods and AirPods Pro and I think both of them are fantastic. Based on what I'm seeing online, it's gotta be a small percentage of people that are experiencing this. My family and friends have about 6 pairs of the Pros between us and none of us are having this issue.
Just grab a regular Bluetooth earphones then. Those $20 ones may seem to be too good to be true, but they work and sound great, and you can replace them on a whim if they do die.
I worked for an electronics testing lab for several years and used about, um, maybe 20 pairs of different headphones. Bluetooth sucks and most people’s implementation of it sucks even more. Maybe I have bad luck but almost all Bluetooth devices I have used have been absolute garbage without apple’a OOB pairing.
I've always been curious of picking up a pair of bluetooth B&O buds, but as an Apple user - the W1/H1 chip for constant pairing with no interference in high traffic areas (subway, city streets) is huge
Are airpods really universally agreed upon to be a "perfect product"?
Are we forgetting the price tag, the limited use time, the fact that they add 3 disconnected parts to your phone/headphones setup, or the fact that they were released along with the removal of a headphone jack, preventing users from opting out?
> add 3 disconnected parts to your phone/headphones setup
This is a pro in my experience. I think they were intentionally designed so that they earpieces would only ever be in 2 places: in your ear or in the case.
The success of AirPods continues to astonish me. I was gifted a pair, and they're sitting at the bottom of a drawer somewhere because I find them so irritatingly bad.
Mine rattle too! Man, I hate that. I assumed it was just my bad luck, and since peaceful protestors looted my local Apple Store I wasn't able to bring them in.
The parent commenter was making a facetious reference to the way the protests were reported in the news media. They surely know there’s an actual difference, which was the point.
Maybe, or maybe they're one of those that use protests as a scapegoat for everything from the Apple store being closed to new instances of coronavirus. You just can't tell, so it's not worth engaging.
Especially when you don’t have a clue. I had to call mall security to find out that it was closed because 20% of the mall was looted. No local media coverage, and the police wouldn’t tell me why. Can you think of a better way to get the information? It took me quite a lot of work.
This thread shows the absurd level of Stockholm Syndrome between Apple users. Year after year of user hostility and people still write "at least Apple has great service" (which is clearly not the case for a noticeable part of users here).
No it doesn't. Apple has shipped an insane amount of AirPods and even if a minuscule amount is affected by the hardware issues, thousands of people will still experience them.
The same goes for Apple support: you won't read online complaints from people who got their laptop immediately replaced or who were sent a new keyboard without question.
You will read the bad experiences where potential factors such as own fault or shitty behavior are not mentioned, further skewing the picture.
Apple can have very shitty service - no doubt - but what really is the overall experience of support when Apple ships many millions of hardware devices every year?
You insinuate that people are too stupid or too Stockholmy to apply consequences after continuous bad experiences and also that Apple just doesn't give a shit about customers which is absurd.
You are literally the example of what he's saying.
Any kind of headphones that are $150 and over are expected to work PERFECTLY. It's a fucking high end product, there is no company in the world that would survive having it returned 4 or 5 times without being blasted all over the internet. Except for apple and its mind controlled apologists...
That's a nice straw man you've built there. This is a mass produced faulty product, not a fringe case where some guy got unlucky and ended up with a subpar purchase.
You're complaining about straw men while simultaneously arguing that Apple customers have Stockholm syndrome when only a small fraction of them have issues. Right.
Not your analogy, but it's a terrible one. If 10 customers buy a product, and 1 has an issue, and that 1 chooses to repeatedly buy and also have repeated issues, that 1 person may have Stockholm syndrome (I mean it's still a childish argument, but sure, why not?). I fail to see why the other 9 would. I'm personally in the 9. I've had phones replaced easy peasy. I've had them replace a keyboard without a receipt. I could have found the thing in an alley for all they know.
Are there problems with the AirPod Pros? Yeah, probably. I don't have them, but I've had my share of issues with their other products. "Keyboard gate", etc.
As for the price tags, their products clearly have enough of an design or feature edge somewhere that people are willing to pay. Some people either don't have that money, or aren't willing to pay. That's it. Otherwise, we'd all be driving cheap econoboxes, because they all get the driving task down pretty well.
> Wow. I've had this same problem for months. I spent over an hour on the phone with Support just trying to describe the problem, until they came to the conclusion that there was absolutely no way to send me new ones or to have me send them my broken ones...because I live in Puerto Rico. The week prior, Apple had sent me a new cable for my phone in 2 days flat, yet when I had a problem, there was nothing they could do about it.
> A couple days later I started to notice the right airpod is rattling. I've used up my warranty now so would have to buy a new pair if I want this fixed.
edit: instantly double downvonted without any replies for demonstrating anecdotes that shine a bad light on Apple. Stockholm Syndrome exhibit A. This is why people take any Apple user input with a grain of salt. They tend to try to shrug problems under the carpet as if these facts would cause them physical pain.
“straw man” isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free-card for any argument. You’re the one who put “perfectly” in all caps.
The reality is sometimes products break or have other flaws, regardless of how much they cost (I don’t think $150 is that high-end for headphones either). Nobody wants that to happen, but when it does, it’s good to know the manufacturer will do something about it.
Also, it’s not clear right now how widespread this issue is. This might be a fringe issue or it might not. I don’t know that and neither do you. (I do know my APP don’t have this issue. I use them heavily and not gently, so I know not everyone gets this issue easily.)
I have had nothing but bad experience with Apple with MBPs battery swelling twice in few years, bad pixel on screen, dead SSD (again twice in few years). And I had to pay ridiculous money for it the second time. Surely it wasn't Apple's fault, right!
I don't insinuate anything, I'm as straightforward as it can be: There's a very specific type of relationship between Apple, their users and their non-users that's very interesting from the point of view of behavioral economics, psychology and cultural studies. I'm not sure every side is at win there, to put it mildly.
I'd also like to read any studies on this topic, if they exist.
I've been an Apple user since the G4 days, and always have had great support experiences with and without Apple Care. I'm sure there are people who have bad experiences, but I don't think that is the norm. Apple routinely earns top support marks.
It is the same but way worse with Tesla. People are forgiving horrid QC. From panel gaps to doors painted the wrong color and it raining into a brand new car.
Don't know which data mining algo you did apply on this thread in order to come to that conclusion. To me it looks like most of the users got their faulty airpods timely replaced, exactly what you would expect from a decent customer service.
Apple has the most impressive astro-turfing service out there. It's honestly scary impressive. Most of Apple's issues seem to be erased from the history of the internet and people's memories.
Do you remember iPad naming memes and jokes? Now it's one of the most iconic names in the world. Remember iPhone's antenna issues? People still claim it has always been phone with best cellular connection. Bendy phones? iPhone build quality is unmatched!
Cyberpunk corporate culture is here just without all of the neon aesthetics so no one has noticed.
The CPU throttling issue (battery gate) was the worst one for me. So, so many people defended that, and still do. Apple being against right-to-repair is an ongoing issue that people love to defend.
That’s kind of ridiculous. If it shows anything, it might show a disparity in how Apple handles repairs in different regions of the world. It doesn’t mean that every Apple customer is experiencing Stockholm syndrome. That’s just outlandish hyperbole and such nonsense is not fruitful.
Can you name a company whose products have literally zero problems?
What do you use? I bet I could dig up a bunch of problems and complaints about your championed company with a quick search even if I have never heard of them, and twist that into an “Stockholm Syndrome” for you too.
Microsoft? Google? Samsung? Digging up negative stories about them would be too easy, without even leaving HN.
Your comment shows the absurd level of Tall Poppy Syndrome that Apple has to face because of the position they’re in, which they got to in the first place by winning literally billions of users.
The problem with this kind of reasoning is that one does not need to champion a product to use it. Almost anything has issues, on the other hand not many brands have such a strong following claiming it's the best thing since sliced bread.
My point is while Apple won millions of users (I very much doubt it's billions) it's a result of a much more elaborate strategy than just making and selling superior product, which is a claim I hear often. I question the implications of that.
>But you're perfectly fine with the kind of reasoning that pooh poohs the preferences of billions of people as "Stockholm syndrome", oh please.
I never said all the users have it, I said the level is high. This comes from observations and experience, of course, not research, so I can't generalise to all users and I didn't.
> iOS alone has a billion users, and Apple has been around since 1976.
Billion of devices ≠ billion of users. C'mon, do you really think each 8th person in the world has some Apple device? Also, you said billionS, that's laughable.
Maybe that's you who ought to show any numbers? You said billionS first. The only number I know is "1.5B active installations" which is not even an independent estimate but Tim Cook's boasting in Apple's quarter results. Even if each US and Canada citizen including toddlers had one Apple device (0.365B) I claim it still wouldn't drive the total number to 2B.
More numbers: Apple's market share for smartphones in China is estimated at 9%, so again, even if the market was all the population, it's still just 125m.
Judging from your submissions and posts you're heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem. It's easy to be biased in this situation and I don't blame you for that. Hope you're happy with their products and they truly make your life easier.
You can easily look for independent estimates (or cold hard visitor/usage statistics) for the total iOS userbase.
Billions, billion, millions, million, thousands, thousand, hundreds or even just a hundred:
You came in snarling with the accusation that many people whom you don't even know, have Stockholm Syndrome, which really just hints at more of a problem on your side.
So, no hard data to support your claims, as expected.
>You came in snarling with the accusation
I just shared an observation. I may be wrong, and you have all the rights to disagree. You can't accuse a person with things done unknowingly and/or unwillingly, so no accusations here.
I've started to notice a tremendous "herd mentality"
I watched a school of fish the other day, how they just all swim together and suddenly thought "Apple Users". I probably do the same thing and someone could say "Apple Detractors".
Is this new or am I only just now paying attention?
Consumer electronics are usually a letdown. The solution should be to buy fewer of them.
Many of these consumer electronics don't actually save you time, but instead save you impulse control. There's nothing wrong with traditional headphones, except you have to think about putting them on, and wrapping up their cord when you take them off. This doesn't actually take time to do, mind you, but instead requires the consumer to exercise some impulse control, or to ignore some inconvenience.
We're a long way away from something like the invention of the washing machine, which saved countless women hundreds of hours a year. Prior to a washing machine, you'd be stuck next to the laundry for the duration of the laundry. Laboring the entire time. The washing machine automated a monotonous task, and allowed women to do nearly anything else while the laundry was going. It was an enormous game changer.
Compare that to something like Google Home. What does it do? It prevents you from having to type in your phone? It's not as if the voice prompt takes a meaningfully different time than typing a query into a phone. And for that matter, it's not as if walking over to a traditional computer and typing in your query takes a significantly greater time than either alternative. No, what the Google Home does is prevent you from having to think about switching your task, and that's about it.
Are AirPods any different? Corded headphones don't prevent you from doing anything, they just require a small amount more impulse control: to wrap them carefully every time. And in exchange, you get a product that is: expensive, has a short shelf live (due to using a battery), and apparently sometimes has reliability issues.
You've picked a remarkably poor example to make your point. My Airpods (not the Pro, intentionally) are easily one of the best consumer electronics purchases I've made in the last decade. And it has little to do with not having to wrap the cord up. It's that they're so light and unobtrusive that I can wear them for hours at a time, whether I'm listening to something or not.
I can see I have an unpopular opinion here. I really disagree that this should be a game changer for anybody, and I think it fits my original example quite well.
But please know, I don't mean this argumentatively. It's just a difference of perspective I suppose.
I downvoted your comment because you didn't present it as your personal perspective, but almost as a moral judgment that anyone who buys or enjoys consumer electronics just lacks impulse control or something. Sorry, but no longer worrying about snagging my headphones cord on workout equipment isn't a sign of a moral failing :)
The Google Home enables my parents to use Netflix and Spotify without me. They're unable to remember the complexity of connecting to a Chromecast manually from their phones, but asking Google to play X show or start Y playlist is well within their capability.
I don't know how I feel about these types of threads... the airpods are something of a technological miracle, I frankly can't believe how reliable they are despite the shortcomings (I have the Pros and have experienced occasional rattling issues, as well as connectivity issues, but still less issues than on similar devices from other manufacturers I had previously)
I kinda feel like overly nitpicking these types of extremely advanced pieces of technology risks discouraging Apple and other companies from experimenting on cool new technology.
Can't we just all agree that the Airpods Pro give an awesome experience to 95% of people, and be happy with how great that is? :)
>Can't we just all agree that the Airpods Pro
>95% of people
Seems like at least 5% of people would disagree with you.
And this is coming from someone who absolutely loves both my AirPods and AirPods Pro and doesn't have the issue described. I'd be pissed if I had to swap out headsets every 2-3 months.
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