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Google Stories (stories.google)
273 points by simonsarris on Dec 10, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 242 comments



Am I the only one who, after reading the landing page, still has no idea what this is? I’ve been watching “immersive” websites for quite some time, mostly marketing-ish websites but also sometimes some special purpose pages from National Geografic or NYT.

What exactly is this? A JavaScript/CSS framework? Something like AMP? Or is it a social network like Snapchat?

I’m genuinely confused what I’m looking at and feel old right now.


> Something like AMP?

This is literally AMP [1]. The feature was launched as AMP Stories, which has now been rebranded to Web Stories. They are throwing everything at the wall to increase the use of AMP.

[1] https://amp.dev/about/stories/


This seems to be more focused on the distribution. The screenshot makes it seem like it'll be shown on Chrome's new tab page. So in some sense it is closer to Snapchat stories. It's basically stories in Chrome?


> This seems to be more focused on the distribution. The screenshot makes it seem like it'll be shown on Chrome's new tab page.

Yes, the point of AMP is for Google to control content distribution on the web, and they entice you to give up control over your content by offering you exposure, for now, just like they did with the Top Stories carousel in Google Search.

The irony of Top Stories is that it forced publishers to use AMP in order to regain the search results placement they already had, before Google took it away by pushing down search results to make room for the new carousel that featured AMP pages.


How are you "giving up control"? Having stuffed published in literally any sort of journal, newspaper or anything has certain formatting and layout requirements. Just because you format it in the "stories" layout doesn't mean you're giving up control over your content.

AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics, and in some cases can be hosted on caches you own, but even if not, having it hosted in a different cache is also not giving up control.

At no point in this process are you losing control of your content. If you don't want to participate, then don't. Creators decide to put their content on TikTok, Youtube, Instagram, Twitter, and now this is yet another avenue they can put their contents on. How is it any different?


> AMP also still properly directs both ads and analytics metrics

Only if the ads and analytics are AMP supported and in the list of AMP approved vendors I think, for example: https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/optimize-...


You make it sound like it's a very limited list. I count 225 ad networks under amp-ad [0] and 80 analytics vendors in the very link you sent.

[0] https://amp.dev/documentation/components/amp-ad/

That should cover basically every user, but it's also open source so you can contribute any you think is missing.

Also, how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or TikTok? The latter didn't even have an creator program until very recently, so you were literally posting your content for free.


> You make it sound like it's a very limited list... 80 analytics vendors

80 out of thousands of analytics platforms and custom analytics scripts is a very limited list.

> how many choices for analytics and ad networks do you have when you put content on Snapchat, Instagram or TikTok?

But that's the thing with AMP, I still would expect content to be served as it was on my site, it's not like I am creating content for AMP and get an audience on AMP.


> out of thousands of analytics platforms

Do you have a source on that? Also what % of websites use an analytic provider not included in those 80? I don't have a source either but my personal experience says it'snegligibly small, probably below 0.1%.

> it's not like I am creating content for AMP and get an audience on AMP.

But I think it actually is. Look at this front page screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/HEjjXqm.png

Google is pushing these stories to their users on the discovery feed, so it actually is all about getting an audience from AMP. Yes, it is still being served from your own site, and while there are some limitation, you still have orders of magnitude more control over the content that you would on literally any other platform.


Riding those "Web" coattails real hard on this one, if I do say so. Seems quite confusing.

Facebook, to competes, rebrands as "Web Social Network". The technicians can slice hairs over who deserves it or no, but the distinction would be faint, in comparing similar name-grabbing exercises. Ok, Google, maybe you deserve it a little tiny bit more, maybe a smidge, but hardly.


It’s pretty cool. If you make a url return data that is visually aligned with “a story protocol” google will put it at top of relevant search results.

Think of it as a mini-html site that follows a specific set of visual JS and CSS protocols so that consumers have guarantee of its behavior (will not have crazy ads, gifs or third party content) and behaves consistently.

Kind of interesting avenue for publishing content on the web that isn’t tied to any specific platform.

I’d even go further and say the web needs more of these kind of things. All websites behave differently. Maybe we need a visual protocol also for general web apps (just like this web stories) so that we have consistent behavior. I dare to call this protocol Web Apps.


So, another AMP-style thing where Google uses their platform and network effect to further encroach on the open web and turn it into the Google web?

The quote you see at first is: "Stories meet their widest audience ever."

Given that the widest audience is anyone who wants to search for something, this seems like a massive anti-trust bait.

Also, hard-pass on the continual dumbing down of content to contribute to the phenomenal attention deficit modern social media has introduced.


> AMP

it's Google one AMPing (heh) Amazon's alexa actions.

You develop content they can shove in their Voice/Phone "AI" Assistants, and they throw some organic search scraps your way.

The end goal of those companies (goog, amz, appl, fb) is to be the new AOL. And the plan is the same as AOL in the 90s: controlling the new browser (the App du jour used to run searchs and scroll mindless content)


They'll rank you higher as well for supporting their initiative but they'll tell you it's because of 'the users' but it's basically pressure on companies to adopt it.


There really should be some kind of federated crawler + search platform. There's no reason why it should be reasonable that a private company (Google) succeeds in attaining its goal of organizing all the world's public information. Unfortunately it's very hard for me to see a revolution in people's choice of search engine..


I know this comes up every time Google/AMP is involved, but .. what's the argument that AMP is anti-competitive? It's and open protocol, you can make your own AMP crawler, content-maker, parser, etc?

I agree that the continued increase of "shiny"-ness of "content" is basically hacking people's attention and it should be drastically clamped down - but still, I don't see the argument for how Google and AMP and the "open web" and competition interact together. What are the relevant consequences and "market forces", whose responsibility is what, etc. Could someone explain it? Thanks!


It's a protocol pushed by one company that wants to bend the web to fit it's purposes. To do that, Google ranks AMP pages more highly. And that's anti competitive and breaks search.

One reason Google wants the whole web to be "standard" is so they can scrape all information more easily, show users rich content by stealing your website's traffic, and create an internet information silo.


I hate this argument, but here it goes: Google is a private company. Do they have a duty to the open web?

A bit more constructively: Who are the stakeholders here in the "open web"?

> show users rich content by stealing your website's traffic

Agreed. AMP allows ads, so when the users open the site the original site can receive ad revenue. But the snippets Google shows on the search results page likely deprive the original sites from traffic.

However ... it's not like Wikipedia wasn't already "stealing facts".


Why is AMP worse than Facebook's "instant articles", or whatever it is that the Apple news app does?


Prevalence. Not GP and I don't use Facebook, but for what it's worth I hate recieving Apple News links too. No it's no worse than receiving bit.ly links to articles, but that doesn't happen to me.


> If you make a url return data that is visually aligned with “a story protocol” google will put it at top of relevant search results.

Seems like it would be a magnet for low-value SEO content and outright scams.


It already is. The worst part about this is how google sends you a notification to check new stories they found. You need to disable that.


> Kind of interesting avenue for publishing content on the web that isn’t tied to any specific platform.

Except that the protocol will be designed not for the benefit of the web in general but rather for Google to maximize its ad revenue.

I'm all for sites doing new and interesting things, but just like AMP I'm wary when these innovations are being driven by a single company that has monopolistic power over website discoverability and profitability.


Nope! Don't need this, don't want it. Google finding new directions to continue their search and ad dominance.


"isn’t tied to any specific platform"

er, isn't it explicitly tied to google?


> All websites behave differently.

That's the point, isn't it?


It's pretty "cool"?? Is that how Potsie and Ralph Malph feel about it too? Are they on Google's payroll?


God this sucks. Last to the party and with the worst version.


> What are Stories?

> Web Stories are a web-based version of the popular “Stories” format that blend video, audio, images, animation and text to create a dynamic, less formal consumption experience that goes beyond a simple play button. This visual format lets you explore content at your own pace by tapping through it, or swiping from one piece of content to the next.

It looks like a format to let Google put small web pages with mixed media into search carousels.


Vomit.

The web is turning into Entertainment Tonight, the show my mom used to watch. Ads disguised as content.


>Ads disguised as content.

Sure feels like the final evolution of ads will be indistinguishable from content.


Hey, that is contrary to our entire newsroom's ethics and policies. It's called a native, uh, something-or-another, and we promise that we stand behind our journalistic integrity.

On an unrelated note, we thank our sponsors and benefactors for bringing us drafts and notes we occasionally might use to augment our impeccable news coverage.


Absolute trash. For most searches these days alternative search engines are proving much more effective to me. Can I just get a simple list of results please??


Already predicted by Silvester Stallone (Demolition Man).


From what I gather with a cursory look, it's basically making a Snapchat/Instagram/Facebook story under your own domain as an extension of AMP.


Yes - a blog in other words!


Blogger but in the style of tumblr (shortness) but with AMP and nice publicity.

Wait five years. It will not be there.


The show cases make things slightly more clear.

It seems like a framework for creating short vertical-orientated chaptered videos with fancy captions and that play mute by default.

Why anyone would want this? I do not know.

https://stories.google/showcase/


Congrats, we are all old!

Snapchat and Vine started it, and now TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook are all neck-deep in it. Every single one is dominated by this content in 2020, with perhaps the only area where text is still a main thing being Discord (although voice-chat is the attractive bit for gamers) & the streaming world (Twitch comments, youtube comments, niche Twitter communities).

Whether we like it or not that's where the users are, and for Google that means it's where the ads and indexing should be.


Yikes, I'm so out of touch. It guess it's the modern equivalent of flipping through pictures in a magazine, but I never really understood the entertainment value in that either.


Fwiw, it's the only way to post something on Youtube/Instagram/Facebook/etc. that: doesn't have a like count, has no comments, it's ephemeral, and anyone who responds to it basically is just sending you a private message than writing something everyone can see.

It's much better than posting the content normally and having to feel somewhat like a loser when nobody even likes/comments on it.

On Instagram I have like 6 photos uploaded the normal way. For years I've only used the "stories" system to engage with friends. It's far more personal. Don't knock it too quickly, you may find it's a step in the right direction.

I don't want it at the top of Google search as a marketing apparatus, though.


Everything you listed sounds like something that should be handled by permissions or settings, not a completely different media format.


> although voice-chat is the attractive bit for gamers

Join any big Discord gaming group and I guarantee you'll see more people chatting via text than using the audio functionality.


Discord attracted gamers because they could sync up during games, raids, etc (and on top of that you can advertise it through your status too). Otherwise it's Slack for people who don't want to feel like they're at work, in line with the spirit of the last few generations of gacha games (boost this server by paying, get more emojis for yourself by paying, etc)

I agree that the text is the major activity going on at any given moment because text remains a good asynchronous repository, but if they hadn't basically integrated mumble/teamspeak to slack I'm not sure the glitter would have been enough to stick, because gamers (and some groups of discussions) definitely do rely on those voice lobbies when actually being present.


I’ve seen this format aped by the NYTimes and I loathe it.


I looked at the money showcase: https://www.refinery29.com/stories/how-stuff-is-made-money/

So... it's like watching a YouTube video, but every 10 seconds, it jumps back 10 seconds and repeats that 10 seconds, so you have to keep pressing "next [slide]" (at least Instagram/Snapchat progresses seamlessly)

God fucking damnit, people...


The subscribe button at the end doesn't seem to work either.


Tell marketers/SEO experts that stories will be shown prominently on Google search results, and they'll be selling that stuff as "You must have this!" to their clients.

I imagine Google's search results will look like Instagram's Explore tab soon enough (https://icdn6.digitaltrends.com/image/instagram-stories-expl... ) showing "trending" clips which are mostly video snippets stolen and re-posted to carry ads from the re-poster...


> Why anyone would want this? I do not know.

its product manager at Google, looking for a promotion (and then let it rot)


> Why anyone would want this? I do not know.

I would imagine some portion of the 1 billion Instagram users that are familiar with this style of storytelling.


I can assure you that it is the children who are wrong.


This is one of the more humorous threads I've read in awhile. Instagram stories are among the most widely used social media features, and it seems like the majority of commenters here are completely unfamiliar with the format.


I know what stories are on the other apps... I don't know what this is: it sort of looks like it might be a library I can put on my website to make something that looks like stories, but it also sounds like it is on Google's website? Some people are saying it isn't on the website but is actually on the new tab page of Chrome? I'm seeing people say it involves AMP somehow?

Google should have 1) showed the context in which these show up and then 2) showed a snippet of code or metadata or whatever it was that made it work for some particular site, and then I feel like I would have gotten it; instead they threw up some marketing site that fails to answer even basic questions about what they are doing :/.


The cognitive dissonance is from Stories being marketed as innovation. HN users are aware of stories (Snapchat has had them since 2013), but since they're not innovative in any way shape or form people aren't making the connection.


People know what stories are, they make sense on Instagram or other similar platforms, but I have absolutely no clue why everyone needs to make stories now. Linkedin? Youtube? Netflix? And now Google with stories in search? What do they bring in all these cases?


> it seems like the majority of commenters here are completely unfamiliar with the format

I would be guilty of this. I don't use social media, so this is new to me. It is difficult to see the appeal at first glance.


This is designed to compete with Instagram/FB/Whatsapp Stories: https://www.pocket-lint.com/apps/news/instagram/138416-what-...

Basically mobile-first tappable web pages. Design-wise it's distinct from most web links as they require you to scroll to read. Here you just tap through pages, like you would on an ebook.


Completely agree with this sentiment. Dug slightly deeper and founds this. Stories are part of APM, adding the ability to create the 'stories' pages by conforming to Google's format like including a link to their stories JavaScript.

https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/start/vis...


> Something like AMP?

“Like AMP”? Well, if you follow the links to get to the dev docs, you land at:

https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/?format=s...

So, yeah, it is very much like AMP.


Yeah, Google has been trying to make this happen for a while:

https://developers.googleblog.com/2018/02/amp-stories-bringi...


I clicked the learn section after, like what you said, learning nothing from the landing page.

After reading through the learn section, it looks like a clone of facebook or instagram's story feature or whatever that will appear on google search results.

At least from the info they've provided.

I've always disliked those...it's the one thing on facebook that shows the other person who looks at it at when. Something I've always been secretly terrified facebook does with everything.


> clone of facebook or instagram's story feature

Which Zuck blatantly copied from Snapchat.

Google's version should be called Gnapchat...

And what do we think? Google Graveyard by 2022, or later?


I think they are just trying to make it easy to make a story-like webpage (as you mentioned nat geo or NYT do this at times). However someone with no web experience who just wants to tell a story can't make a complicated site like that.

So, it seems like this is just a tool to assist with that.

Which is interesting.. however their landing page sure doesn't make it at all clear as to what is going on.


The key part is that it’s hosted by google, and can appear on other google surfaces. So pretty soon google will just show this at the top of the search results, instead of directing you to the website.

At least they’re generous enough to give you some ad revenue from it, unlike featured snippets.


It feels like instagram/facebook-like stories, but searchable on the web. These interactive stories definitely work great as advertisements on Facebook and now Google wants to monetize from them too.


Google stories is a dad trying yet again to look hip. We're not the ones who are old. Google is.


I think they are taking Snap's stories and atomizing it so that they can be placed anywhere on the web. Then they are monetizing it by putting ads over it.


Interactive advertisements similar to those that already exist on snapchat/instagram


At first I thought it was a feature for webmasters to add “stories” or “cards” within the search results. Then I guessed it is a web publishing platform. No idea yet!

I came here to read comments about more details.


Based on the description, I think it's like a web page, but you host it yourself, can embed media, link to other web pages, and it can be found using Google.


> I’m genuinely confused what I’m looking at and feel old right now.

Another "social" attempt from Google.

Anyone remember Google+?


Could be worse, you could remember Google Buzz.


google++

That's what popped in my mind when the title ("Stories meet their widest audience ever").


I also remember Google Wave.


This feels like some kind of satire. Is Sasha Baron Cohen doing a new project?


I came to make the exact same comment - what on earth is this?


A slide show


I’m getting angry just trying to look at the page that describes them.

We get it, you figured out how to do clever CSS animations tied to scroll position. Thanks, I hate it.

I’ve tried 3 times and I can’t manage to stay on the page for more than a few seconds without getting frustrated and closing the tab.


Let's take a moment of silence in solidarity with all the engineers who will now have to make their company's blog support this.


And let's take a moment of silence in solidarity for all engineers who worked on this when this gets scraped.


And let's also take a moment of silence for everyone who invested time and energy into creating stories only for Google to just not be bothered anymore and switch it off.


Maybe a moment of silence for people who read and write long form content and like to immerse rather than skim... ~ sigh ~


Maybe also one for blind and vision impaired people, this looks like just a sequence of videos.


If we changed these moments of silence into shots of tequila, we'd really get this party started!


But having to turn pages is better to serve ads, as you need more effort to dodge them


It reads like you can host your own stories, but since it’s in a “story” format I’m having trouble following the details...


Or a moment of noise in solidarity with the engineers who got promoted for shipping the shiny new thing.


Bang !!


"It's been an incredible journey, and we would like to thank all those who have shared it with us."


I have the unfortunate inkling that this is here to stay. In hindsight it seems obvious that Google Search will implement the most successful and ubiquitous features of social media. I don't like it, but the pressure this will create for companies to compete in this space will be huge.


But does Google Search have an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of CommonLisp yet?


Well, GMail does read email, fulfilling jwz's law, so there's only one more law to go.

Maybe something like emacs, but AMP-based, and we'll have the worst of two worlds!


no but there is dart


But they can be happy for their manager, who'd get promoted for pushing this out. Maybe they all will even get some bonus!


I wonder if Google’s turnover is such that when this does inevitably get shuttered, those who worked on it are still at Google.


If stories posted here on HN are to be believed, and I overall do believe them, then they are probably mostly still at google, they are just onto a new project. Google seems to prioritize and reward project completion (aka "shipping") more than long-term project successfulness. Also it's more advantageous to do whatever it takes to get a leg up and get promoted than it is to care about the long-term viability of a project.

So to answer your question, probably still at google, just not associated with the "stories" team anymore. It's a game of hot potato where you don't want to be stuck on a team not shipping/innovating since those are the same teams that get spun down (though to be fair it sounds like they just get absorbed onto the "google blob" instead of being let go most of the time).

It's sad that people that are the most passionate are the ones who suffer the most (suffer in terms of not getting funds/time/etc to expand a product they care deeply for and for their troubles get shifted to some other team when Google loses interest in their "baby").


This definitely rings true in my experience, but I have to wonder what a better system would be for Google. Their leadership just isn't top down which means rewards have to hit some kind of decentralised target, launches being the most impactful.


They released a Wordpress plugin a few months ago[0], so this is designed more for content teams and marketers that would prefer to focus on producing stories rather than dealing with developers' objections. Google Tag Manager has the same raison d'etre.

[0]: https://wordpress.org/plugins/web-stories/


That's what engineers do?


Wow, I guess this is what FOMO looks like when taken to the b2c megacorp level.

It feels like a safe bet that this is Google+ all over again, and it'll fail just as badly. But hey, set a 5 year reminder and I'll happily take the "I was wrong" on this if I indeed am.


An interesting hot take I read a while back (that I can't find) was that Google's strategy is generally "compete with every company on every product in order to build a moat, so that no one can touch search, which is the actual castle." And if you think about it makes a lot of sense -- Google competes with almost every other tech company on something, but no one competes with Google on search. The exception, perhaps, is voice search where Alexa / Siri are truly competitive.


Amazon has been aggressively eating into Google's search advertising market share, which is actually the biggest threat to Google's model today (aside from general obsolescence as activity drifts away from the open web).


And this seems to be about providing Google-only search result content that no competitor could equal since it's literally built on google's tech, RE: "Your story can then be surfaced in relevant Google Search results and Discover."


Microsoft Bing competes with Google Search.


I have yet to meet someone that uses bing, but maybe that’s just because I’m in the Silicon Valley bubble


Interestingly. There's bound to be more people using Bing in the Silicon Valley bubble than outside it. This is because duckduckgo, the famed privacy focused search engine uses Bing as the back end.


I have yet to meet someone that uses bing, but maybe that’s just because I’m in the Silicon Valley bubble

You might be surprised what Joe Average uses. I run into people who not only still use MapQuest, but use it as a verb.


Yeah, but ppl were using Mapquest for years before Gmaps came out. People were using Google before Bing came out.


MapQuest directions printed out at home before the trip?


I see people recommending DuckDuckGo a lot here which is basically just Bing without personalized results.


Bing is unmatched when it comes to searching for porn videos.


I use a mix of Bing and DDG, about 50/50. I also know multiple people who use Bing, mostly people not in tech as it’s just “there” if you use Windows.


I'm very far away from that bubble and I have yet to meet anyone who uses Bing either. And I know several people who still use Hotmail/Yahoo.


I use Bing... sometimes. They literally give you rewards points (that can be redeemed for Microsoft/Xbox gift cards) for searching. Pretty funny, the lengths they go to get you to use Bing...

https://account.microsoft.com/rewards/


Seems like Yahoo just uses the Bing API these days.

> Yahoo! Search is a rebadged version of the Bing search engine owned by Yahoo!, headquartered in Sunnyvale, California.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Search


Given that they put it in the same category as Hotmail, I assume that they mean Yahoo Mail, not the search engine.



That is exactly the article I was thinking of! Gotta love the internet.


The non-cynical take is that "stories" is the first content format since the "feed" that is really sticky and opens a new avenue for user interaction. Everyone is adopting them because is now clear that it's not a fad. Consumers understand the concept of stories and actually engage heavily with them so nobody wants to miss out.

Of course not all the implementations are good or useful, but from a user interaction perspective the functionality is becoming so widely familiar that it makes sense why everyone is adopting this format.


I don't think the fact everyone is adopting them makes it not a fad. People have jumped on a lot of fads over the years. Hell, even animated gifs are losing a lot of popularity now; can you imagine thinking that 10y ago?

More importantly, this is still driven by one or two big players using this format. If those players decide to innovate with the format, it could radically alter how people feel about it and it could lose in popularity, or it could change enough that Google's implementation becomes irrelevant unless they alter it significantly as well (which then gives more work downstream, which could make publishers stop bothering with it if they ever did).

This feels super fragile and tbh looks more like a desperate play from Google than an adoptive one.

In fact, you know what an adoptive one would look like to me? Having google start seriously indexing stories and be able to show them in rich media results.

I think the difference is: one approach is ad driven, one is search driven.


When the discussion thread abounds with people who have no idea what this "stories" concept is about, and none of them seem to care to find out,... that's the first hint that you might want to question some of your assumptions.


> It feels like a safe bet that this is Google+ all over again, and it’ll fail just as badly.

It feels a lot more like it is AMP all over again (because it is literally AMP). And I don’t recall that failing.

AMP is the Google thing it is trendy to complain about taking over, as opposed to almost everything else, where it is trendy to complain about it imminently failing.


google plus meets amp fo sho


When I see things like this I laugh and laugh and laugh about the naive view usually presented in HN that the "best minds of our generation" are all in FAANGs. Move over Peter Scholze, Terry Tao and Magnus Carlsen, the Google(TM) kids who just copied TikTok/Instagram have just arrived.


Well, that's the complain isn't it? That the technical skills are being wasted on glorified marketing companies.

If you hire Frank Lloyd Wright to design your bathroom, you can't use the fact that you end up looking at a toilet as proof that he's not great.


Well, they did come up with that "innovation", didnt they?


Not really, I don't think anyone's claiming that Google's managers and product owners are the geniuses the world is missing out on. It's the engineering skills that are considered wasted.


Ah geez, I really don’t want to derail this, but Magnus Carlsen is not one of the “best minds of our generation”, he’s remarkably good at a game that rewards memory and pattern matching.

I don’t think even Magnus Carlsen thinks of himself in that way, no one in the chess world does, as far as I know.

Most serious chess players don’t make the mistake of thinking their skills translate very well.


I mean, what does ”best mind” even mean though? For some definitions he might fit the bill.


For sure, a very good question. It's definitely a rabbit-hole that doesn't feel very productive to go down beyond, "here be dragons".


Your argument just boils down to "I think not". Saying Magnus Carlsen doesnt have one of the best minds of this generation because he is "just" a chess player is like saying Erling Haaland is not one of the best athletes because he plays "soccer" not football.

If being the indisputable number 1 player for almost a decade and being in the conversation for being the GOAT of one of the oldest, most studied, more competitive mental sports in the world does not qualify you for that nothing does. I could hardly ever think of a better example.You can count PhDs in the hundred of thousands, SV engineers in the same range.There are 36 2700+ players in the world, there are 2 +2800 players.There has been only 1 WC in the last 7 years.

I have no idea also what you meant by "transferring skills" or do you think a a "genius" CS kid in Google can quit and tomorrow become a neurosurgeon? All people are specialists. Ironically is Magnum, again, who has demonstrated flexibility by topping Fantasy Football, a game played by millions.

It's you who doesn't seem to grasp anything about the world of chess. From the time commitment and skill needed to get to the very top (Some people has argued is equivalent to the effort of getting 2 PhDs)to the esteem and reputation they have in the society at large.People like Bobby Fischer, Gary Kasparov and Vladimir Kramnik, are considered veritable geniuses, in the same league of Fields Medals winners. Almost nobody in FAANGs is in that league.

Chess is not "just" memory and pattern matching (Although those are pretty impressive,many Nobel-worthy discoveries have been that),it is mental and physical stamina, imagination, ability to perform under heavy time pressure , creativity and almost all the qualities heavily linked to any intelectual work.


Like I said, I don't think it's productive to argue about this, I just think it's a trap to think of chess performance as any kind of leading indicator of general intellectual aptitude. The skills are simply not transferrable -- the things that make you good at chess don't make you good at thinking generically.

From the man himself:

"I’m not saying that I am totally stupid. But my success mainly has to do with the fact that I had the opportunity to learn more, more quickly. It has become easier to get hold of information. The players from the Soviet Union used to be at a huge advantage; in Moscow they had access to vast archives, with countless games carefully recorded on index cards. Nowadays anyone can buy this data on DVD for 150 euros; one disk holds 4.5 million games. There are also more books than there used to be. And then of course I started working with a computer earlier than Vladimir Kramnik or Viswanathan Anand."

Another quote from that same interview:

"Carlsen: I’m not a genius."

Some sources:

    https://www.chess.com/news/view/-misconceptions-about-chess-players
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/does-chess-make-you-smarter-1479403551
    https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/05/31/do-chess-players-have-higher-iqs-11366
    https://en.chessbase.com/post/magnus-carlsen-on-his-che-career
    https://www.chess.com/blog/RoaringPawn/magnus-carlsen-a-genius-or-automaton
    https://gardinerchess.com.au/fm-stojic-is-magnus-carlsen-a-genius/


> Like I said, I don't think it's productive to argue about this

And yet here you are.

Find me a quote of a really accomplished person calling themselves a genius.


I just tried a few things. Sharing notes here incase anyone wants an overview. I tried visiting a few sites that had stories:

* https://nowthisnews.com/stories/paralympic-swimmer-builds-ma...

* https://www.lonelyplanet.com/stories/5-destinations-to-see-w...

What I don't see:

* I visited the home pages of those sites. I'm not sure how to open up stories if I were an internet user just passing by.

* I don't see a way to exit the stories experience other than clicking a link/article

* How to open a story from any web page on a desktop (It is called "Web Stories" so I assumed a few things)

This seems to be build on top of AMP:

* https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/start/vis...

* https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/integrate...


> I visited the home pages of those sites. I'm not sure how to open up stories if I were an internet user just passing by.

That's probably by design. The stories are meant to be discovered while searching on Google. Of course a site owner should have the common sense to include a separate section on their site for stories. In most CMSs, It would be as simple as setting a 'web stories' category, then adding a link to the navigation that takes them to a dynamically generated page, something like "example.com/web-stories/"


Part of AMP (1) is a web component library grounded in the extensible web manifesto (2).

The plan was that the browser vendors give developers deeper access so that they could test new elements/standards through web components and polyfills.

The AMP component library is one example of this, and stories are one of their forms. So basically if you use their tags to structure your content, it creates a ig/sc style Web Story.

The structure that they have is (3): Story -> Pages -> Layers -> Elements

Each page represents a tappable screen, Layers occupy the full screen, stack and have layout defaults like fill or lower-third and Elements can be regular html elements or other AMP components.

I think that it's a neat way of organizing pages of information and made a clojure wrapper around it here: https://github.com/rainbow-bamboo/sargam

1. https://amp.dev/about/mission-and-vision/ 2. https://github.com/extensibleweb/manifesto/blob/master/READM... 3. https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/start/vis...


Looks interesting, seems like an AMP like format (or AMP extension? Unclear.) for publishing stories that can be picked up by other platforms (likely at this point only google). I realize people hate AMP, but this seems like a strictly better alternative than a closed platform like snapchat, instagram, etc., present.

Edit: here's the technical documentation, https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/?format=s...


I think the comments about how this is yet another google wave/orkut/+, etc., are kind of missing what this is (probably because of bad branding overlap with Snapchat/Instagram stories).

I think this is a content marketing and blogging platform for small startups, "influencers", and the like. Think of NomadList, Thrillist, food review websites, blogs, etc.

That doesn't mean that this will be very successful, obviously, but I don't see an individual person making much use of this. Seems like a fine thing for a startup to do, Google will probably not get enough out of this to keep it alive.


I'm actually planning to use this to create a web version of the music zines I post on Instagram. I used to create them using the Swiper slider library, but you have to build the entire HTML+CSS structure yourself, which is very time consuming. Something GUI-based and mobile-specific will greatly increase the speed of production.


Why do all of these landing pages make zero effort to say what the hell the product is


I imagine the people who thought the stories UI was acceptable also signed off on the landing page.


The Google app on my iPhone enabled this a few weeks ago (The home section shows news below the search bar.)

The UX was extremely confusing as there was no scrolling, swiping changed stories, and tapping went to the next page. The content was 90% image and 10% text and was extremely annoying to read.

It was also inconsistent from other content, as unlike the other "non-story" items, I could not change preferences (ie ignore the content from a site or ignore the topic). The same set of stories showed up for a week before I just turned the whole feature off.


> The UX was extremely confusing as there was no scrolling, swiping changed stories, and tapping went to the next page. The content was 90% image and 10% text and was extremely annoying to read.

Yup, as much as I also hate the format, that's the format of stories as popularised by Snapchat/Instagram/TikTok etc. Keep it all very slick, but devoid of content.


Also, the image moves slowly behind the text, somehow inducing motion sickness without forcing the user to sit in a car.

It’s like the blink tag, but instead of being the result of a drunken bet on Castro St in Mountain View, it’s the result of $1,000,000’s in engineering effort and focus groups.


Looking forward to how this will clutter simple Google search results!


Are they copying Facebook 4 years after they copied snapchat?


No, they're copying Twitter 4 years after they copied Instagram 4 years after they copied Snapchat.


I have no doubt pretty soon these stories will be in a carousel at the top of google.com search results, just like featured snippets. And like AMP, this will bring you higher in the search results, so everyone will be making these. Another way to keep people on Google instead instead of proceeding to the host website...

(It looks like they already do this in their mobile app)


Future todo: Check if this can be blocked via an ablocker or some kind of greasemonkey script.

I wish google would just index the web. This is getting out of hand.


After scrolling for what felt like forever... I finally got down to:

"It’s amazing what you can do with a story. Web Stories can take many forms. The best-in-class examples below provide just a taste of what’s possible in this engaging format."

They have a bunch of examples, so I watched several, hoping to understand how this thing works, and why it's as good as they say. I guess it's a clone of Facebook stories? You somehow piece together a bunch of REALLY short videos or images, and then it makes a little movie. The best-in-class examples were hard to watch, and I can see no reason why I'd ever prefer this format over anything else. Ever. I reallllly don't get why they did this or why anyone would use it.


When can we expect to find Google Stories here?

https://killedbygoogle.com/


If there’s any site I’d like to see converted to Google Stories, it’s killedbygoogle.com


At this time, killedbygoogle.com has become critical infastructure to remember us of the things that went wrong with the internet. Don't touch THAT running system!


It'll be dead within 18-24 months.


I think it is a new attempt at AMP? AMP 2.0?

But I also think this one will be killed in a few years. A big point with stories is to have you publish them to the friends _who care_ in a network. A social network.

A user googling to get to a website isn't the same kind of user. That's not the user who wants to engage with you on a more personal level: that user would instead befriend you on Instagram. The googling user is likely rather after information, contact details or the like.

So I think Google will be a victim of the "distanced" users of theirs here. Google has users googling things with a purpose, whether it's a recipe, a review or to shop things. They aren't looking for feeds there -- they already have (too?) many ways to get that. They want distilled information. You know, what Google's search engine is designed to get. What they built their brand on: finding information fast.

I think people are moving away from the "generic web" to engage on a personal level, not towards it, because a smartphone's social network app is more intimate. But sure, if the price is right, I guess some might adopt this, if not only as sort of a SEO tool. But I think the value as a product won't even be on the same chart as what stories provide social networks.

Personally, I think stories are a terrible format to engage with users in the way Google aims for here, actually trying to take this format seriously and not just memes and simple ad hoc stuff. Just look at VICE's example here: https://www.vice.com/stories/inside-my-mind-oliver-tree/ What in heaven's name? Multiple clicks about god knows what just to finally get more of it in my mail?


"Visual stories that feel like yours, because they are."

Well, at least until the product doesn't gain much traction and Google kills it.


These you get to host on your own domain, so Google can't kill it,


As a user, what I really want is just high-quality information. No click-bait headlines, auto-play movies, or hijacking standard browser scrolling. Images are fine if they actually help to convey useful information, but beyond that less is more. I'd also prefer to see less opinion-based content out of Google News and more factual reporting... and a lot of times I feel like these "story" type articles tend to cherry-pick the facts to fit into whatever narrative they are trying to tell.

I understand that other people might have different preferences, and I'm sure Google has a bunch of data that proves this stuff improves click-through rates and engagement. But I have been checking Google News several times a day out of habit for years now, and I think it's time to break that habit. Much better I think to just frequent a small number of high-quality sources than to try to drink from the firehose of crap on Google News.


Am I the only one that thinks this is kind of nice? I was just putting together a personal portfolio website and thinking about adding a feature like this. But I hadn't yet because of the work involved. This will make it a lot easier.

If you don't like, you don't have to use it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I'm making small startup about Stories: https://storista.io and my first impressions was "Oh, no", but when I realised that Google again using AMP.

P.S. Feel free to ask about longer trial or discounts!


I read the page, not sure what is about it yet.


When I searched for few athletes on Google, I remember seeing a stories+AMA like feature. It looks like this has already in use for internal Google search products. It looks like a content publishing platform and Google crawler will aggregate these stories across the web to show the most trending stories on web.

If executed well I do see this being successful. But it's Google, the team which developed is may very well be working on something else and this will most likely not get marketing budget and support needed to succeed.


The concept of Stories does not seem very complex to implement from a technical point of view. This makes me hope that someone feels inspired to make a open source Stories-project that can be self-hosted and integrated easily anywhere on the web – without AMP and Googles tracking tentacles built into it. Maybe make it part of the Fediverse?

I know that Pixelfed has their own Instagram-inspired Stories functionality – ephemeral stories that disappear after 24h. What Google has built here seems to be a b2c-focused product.


this is from like 2-3 months ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24700491


> A Web Story is a full-screen visual storytelling experience that conveys information with images, videos, graphics, audio, and more. It's perfect for users who want bite-sized, visually-rich content.

Better Intro: https://amp.dev/documentation/guides-and-tutorials/start/vis...


What are people getting out of stories? I look at them sometimes on Instagram and I don't understand how this is better than just putting the same images in a post. I guess I'm old now and I don't get what these wacky kids are doing.

For this, how is it different than a webpage? Why would I do whatever this is instead of just making a webpage with the same content?

Is it just the interface where you swipe from one to the next? Is that supposed to be some amazing innovation?


I think it has something to do with the fact that posts are permanent and stories aren't. It's used to share "smaller" moments


99% of successful Instagram stories are hot girls doing things, anything.


Classic Google and social. Last on the scene, overdoes it, no users+

Social is Google's Moby Dick haha. You'll get it one day big G.

+ This last one's a bet. I'll check back next year


Someone in Big G is making mashup between Instagram Stories and Google Amp. Nice effort but it will sink as a rock to the bottom if left alone. Sadly they will try to integrate this in Android, if is not already integrated. "Kind of interesting avenue for publishing content on the web that isn’t tied to any specific platform." - It's tied kid, to Google search with "a story protocol" as you sad it.


Spiegel's Law: Every program attempts to expand until it can support Stories. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.


I can already draft a PR to killedbygoogle for this.


Seems like a good format to follow a recipe online!


This is like Google found those click-bait stories about the person who discovered a hidden room in their house, where you have to keep clicking next to read another sentence of text because it generates more impressions.... and Google was jealous of the engagement stats and decided to copy it.

It would be really, really funny if it wasn't so horribly, horribly sad.


Is it April fools day?

What's next GitHub Stories?

Stack Overflow Stories!

Hacker News Stories?


Actually, VS Code stories. [0]

Also LinkedIn has them now. Which I would argue is still better than LinkedIn's other new addition, an entirely new black hole for event invites. As if the signal-to-noise ratio for these weren't bad enough on Facebook...

[0] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=bar9.sto...


All the world really is becoming a stage. John Maus was right about "the stage" being the only place where people can transform into different subjectivities.[0]

[0] https://youtu.be/A4b0c7bdzfg?t=40


This is silly.


I hope when they put this on the search results page, it’s gonna be in a single easily to block div.


This is getting silly at this point.


I agree, BUT one thing that has blown my mind and forced me to reconsider a lot of this stuff that that women make 70-80% of consumer purchases. So, if you are advertising, you are pretty much advertising to women. The ruination of Reddit made no sense to me, Facebook made no sense to me, Instagram, etc. all that nonsense made no sense to me, until I realized that ALL of that stuff is for women. Seen in this light it seems to make more sense and not be so "silly" after all.

[0] https://www.inc.com/amy-nelson/women-drive-majority-of-consu...


True and now imagine that 70% of the web is accessed through mobile devices today. The format of these web stories is basically identical to a vertical phone, I think they exist so mobile users browse through more content more quickly. These decisions may not seem to make much sense for us now because browsing on a desktop always feels more efficient but they aren't designed to be efficient for us, they are supposed to be efficient for a somewhat desinterested mobile phone user who was going to click away but now he or she sees a flashy little story and thinks "eh ok, I'll watch what they want". Google may even envision a future where the normal search list results are an advanced feature and regular users all prefer to click on stories because that's where all the offers and gimmicks and easy to digest information is in. Ever since I underestimated TikTok, I am a little more careful to dismiss these new developments. In a way, these mini stories are another variation of tiktok mini stories.


Another example of how Google just doesn't make exciting technology anymore.


They still make exciting technology. Google's search is still far better than the competition. The Pixel computational photography app is cutting edge. Their translation and speech synthesis are great. They are still good at "organizing the world's information".

They fail when they try to mimic their competitors. Their cloud services trail Amazon. Their hardware trails Apple. Their social media trails... everybody.

You can see it in their intranets. Google uses personal web pages, forums, and search. It is similar to the internet in 2004. Facebook uses a miniature copy of Facebook.


> Google's search is still far better than the competition.

Bing now gives me results from the customer intranets kind of like an improved version of the old Google Desktop Search.

Google has, despite us telling them again and again, "improved" search to the point where it can find thousands of pages that contains something somehow similar to what I searched for, yet completely irrelevant.

I.e. not worse than the competitors, just equally bad.

Except maybe Google fails in more spectacular ways on search thanks to AI: some of the irrelevant results feel uncanny, like: I can see how they got there, but seriously: it doesn't match what I searched for and it utterly irrelevant.


> Their social media trails... everybody.

While it still existed, Google+ was far better than any other popular social media site around. I'm sure I don't need to offer any critique of Facebook, and Twitter's UX was an absolute disaster before they implemented usable threading.

Sure, our grandmothers weren't going to start using it, but I've seen what they're posting on Facebook and as far as I'm concerned that was an extreme positive.


Yep. Google+ became brilliant a couple of years before ot shuttered.

It had working pseudonymity.

I could also post to different contexts from the same persona.

It was easy to read.

I experienced little spam and next to no politics.

Probably more.


Somebody at google is pushing for a huge salary bump and career boost, I guess.

That looks like the perfect thing outside of google's core business that's going to be killed in like a year or something.


If I could host “stories” on my own personal blog/website - with a permanent link on my own domain, instead of a 3rd party platform, I might finally use that “story” format. Probably not, but maybe.


I guess stories will go down in history as the perfect example of a feature that was perfect in a single product (Instagram) and everyone tried to copy it in its own product, failing miserably.


Instagram copied it from snapchat.


And it wasn't even Facebook's first attempt to copy it - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/10/snapchat-...

Though the best quote in that article is Kevin Systrom:

> Just like when Facebook invented the [News] Feed, and every social product was like, ‘That’s an innovation, how do we adapt that to our network,’ you’re going to see stories pop up in other networks over time, because it’s one of the best ways to show visual information in chronological order.


I actually think that this is nice.

Stories are a quick and easy way to consume light content. And that's really it, you wouldn't be using this for Wikipedia-style articles.


This seems to be Google’s response to Apple News+. Nobody has faith in their ability to long haul things. Especially as niche as this.


THANK YOU TITLE for calling this Google Stories. 100% yes. Google Web Stories, if you must include the Web part of the proper name.


The sole reason this is called "Web Stories" is because the AMP team believes their proprietary fork of the web constitutes being part of "team web", as opposed to apps.


I will say they have done good, good work. I don't think they think their specific tech fully consititutes the web: I don't think they are so delusional, mad, misguided as that. To the teams credit though, the web was doing bad. Performance was bad. Sites were bad. In way too many cases. AMP has done better. But they still need to show some modesty & humility & recognize the web is a wider thing, not their personal domain, which titles like "Web Stories" fails to show. Plenty of other folks also do excellent web.


Google trying to get back into the social media game. because they have been so successful at it in the past.


Will probably be closed in a few years;


I'll be honest: I don't know what this is and I don't want to know. I want nothing to do with it. Google needs to give up on this.

They failed with gchat, they failed with google wave, they failed with orkut, they failed with google+.... They can't seem to stop trying to worm their way into social tech.

They just don't get that their brand doesn't work for this and nobody is buying it.


It seems their brand is "socially awkward media"


I guess that explains why I keep getting hooked by it.


So they should take the Google name off it?


I don't know how to solve Google's problems and I don't pretend to. If I did I'd write a carefully thought-out Medium post and get claps and reshares and so on.

All I know is that as a user I can only describe my emotional reaction as "revulsion" whenever they unveil one of their new cash-grab copies of someone else's platform.


Here's how I view the Google brand in a nutshell: Half-assed crap that will fall out from under me, with bright colors.

That's it. There's more to it, but that's the primary view I have of them. Gmail was good once, then got bloated and slow. Search was good once, but is now Search for Stuff to Buy. All sorts of other things were good once, and now don't exist.

So when you said, "I don't know what this is and I don't want to know", I'm right there with you. I feel like I already know the part that will make me ignore it, so I'm not going to spend another minute on it. (Other than to trash it here, of course :)


Its fine to keep trying, its just that they keep forcing it down your throat by either tying everything to search, or not standing behind a firm commitment of support. As much as I dislike Google, if Google created a non-advertising, non-surveillance paid product that was quality, I'd definitely consider it. Heck I still buy Apple products when they're good, even if I don't like their anti-repair stance.

Anywho, as it stands now, Google seem to be finding new ways to set up toll-booths on the internet via search lock-in. That's their new mantra. Whatever happened to organizing the world's information? Even their "About 2,800,000 results" is total BS. I can't go past page 20 on almost all queries.


Hacker News, March 2023: Google Shutters Google Stories, encourages users to migrate to Google News


September 2020!


So good job Google, the page is unreadable on an Android phone without having an epilepsy attack!


What is this? Is this a substack + instagram mashup? Or an Apple news+ clone?


I often forget that everything and anything that Google does is to sell ads


for anyone in your circles


Web is now hot garbage.


another "stories" wannabe... how creative. It seems for google it wasn't enough to have this copycat feature with Youtube now also Google itself.


Stories are popular because they can be quickly viewed. I don't know anyone in real life who has the attention span to read anything more than a 500 words article without graphics in it everywhere.

This is a natural extension of web.


Yikes, that's sad. Sounds like you need to meet some new people.


Holding out for Google to reintroduce Flash Player next.


This isn't new. This has been there for many years.


Looks like Microsoft PowerPoint got an upgrade


How long before this gets killed by Google ?


I’m patiently awaiting McDonalds stories.


I give it 2 years before they deep-six it.


(crickets...)


oh cool! another google product that's going to be deprecated in a couple of years


Damn, Google is lame as fuck.


Because it was there.

What ?

Domain name.


"When TicToc gets banned we'll be the next hot thing" -- Alphabet execs, probably.


Everyone:

Google: Stories are cool now, no?


did they just steal the idea from snapchat and make it their own?


Oh god no


Seems like a TikTok ripoff


Wait, wait, what is it?


would be fun if they feature Timnit's story


* lost it


I know we're in December, but I still made sure to double-check the date...


Google Story will become History in a year. Why bother?


But seriously, why would anyone be an early adopter to Google tech anymore. There's a good chance that whatever it is will be killed in a few years, so I tend to just not bother anymore.

I used to be the first to any new Google tech. Android, google Fi, google play music, and on and on. Now, I'm working towards degoogling entirely.


God damn it Google need to quit trying to make their own social network happen, it wont happen


This is not a social network. It's a way to deliver content.


Every social network is "a way to deliver content"


IMO this just as evil as AMP, sounds silly but its a sign that Google remains dedicated to kill Open Internet standards and replace them with proprietary formats. Hopefully HN community will help to debunk this.

Another take away: Lots have pointed that the design is `silly`. Well I think is was intentional and in the context of what Google is trying to achieve well designed. The layout of Google Stories is a sign that modern users don't read anymore. All stories are pure images, conceptual images with little text as possible.


> IMO this just as evil as AMP

That's because it is AMP

https://amp.dev/about/stories/




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