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As a former social media analyst, I'm quitting Twitter (madrox.substack.com)
113 points by madrox on Nov 1, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 123 comments



I think what most fail on when it comes to Twitter, is following the right people.

Personally I follow a bunch of vendors of products I like, a whole ring of C++ and developers, as well as a few game developers. So I have a quite pleasant and informative Twitter experience because I am selective.


Yeah, and I also wish there was a way to filter out content from select people who I follow for their subject matter expertise, and I'm not interested in reading about their takes on politics. I don't mind that they're wanting to share those views, but I wish I could follow just their subject matter content. And by the same token, it would also encourage people to be able to post those non-subject matter tweets, if they knew that people wouldn't have to unfollow them if they preferred to avoid politics. Allowing people to choose to bifurcate what they follow a person for enhances the network, I think.

And I should say, it's not even necessarily about politics. I'm not a huge sports fan, and in the same way, I would like to be able to unfollow posts about sports, etc of friends on Facebook.


Reddit is great for subject matter. Not perfect but actually gets better and better every year.


As long as you’re okay with politics leaking in. There isn’t a sub of any significant size that doesn’t become a reflection of the leftist echo chamber of the larger community.

Mods can surely delete comments that outright state anything political, but they don’t control the fact that the votes are controlled by the community and the votes favor things that fit in with a particular political world view.

All this to say, a vote-driven platform with an overwhelmingly one-sided user-base is not a great place to host a community.


This is not my experience with the specialized subreddits I follow (mostly reading, health, and tech related, all on the smaller side). However, I have noticed that people who like to label things as "left/right echo chambers" are extremely sensitive to what other people say and often read political intent where none is intended. Could this be what's happening to you?


> political intent where none is intended. Could this be what's happening to you?

Nope. You’ll notice I didn’t say anything about intent. It’s much broader with entire classes of ideas being oppressed and other bad ideas being accepted with refutations shunned.


A comment that reveals more about your leanings than anything to do with reddit.

Are you sure you're sufficiently equipped for a discussion about echo chambers and politics? Doesn't appear so. A moment of introspection might serve you well.


> A comment that reveals more about your leanings than anything to do with reddit.

It can’t be both. Either Reddit is biased and I don’t lean the same way or my comment said nothing about my leanings. Figure out what point you’re trying to make before throwing vague statements out.

> Are you sure you're sufficiently equipped for a discussion about echo chambers and politics? Doesn't appear so. A moment of introspection might serve you well.

Says the person who was incapable of actually engaging in a discussion about echo chambers and instead engaged in a personal attack.


Personal attack? Try again.


It's more likely that you're sitting on the far end of a normal distribution, and what you see as an enforced echo chamber is just the vast majority of users sitting in the middle of that bell curve doing their thing.

In other words, if everyone is sitting to the left of you, maybe you're just sitting really far off to the right.


Nope, Reddit’s political bias is very well-known.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalDiscussion/comments/3e897a...

https://social.techjunkie.com/demographics-reddit/

It’s not that there is anything particular about Reddit that attracts leftists, it’s just dominated by a young demographic that generally skews far left of the wider population.

> other words, if everyone is sitting to the left of you, maybe you're just sitting really far off to the right.

It’s not “everyone”, it’s just a simple majority of the users on reddit, which demographically is sitting to the left of the wider population.

So (setting aside the fact that a two dimensional political spectrums is bullshit) yes, I’m sitting on the right side of the curve in Reddit’s user base. But so are most professionals, parents, etc (I.e. folks over 25). And you only have to be sitting slightly to the right of the median before the vote ratio steam rolls you’re world view.

> and what you see as an enforced echo chamber is just the vast majority of users sitting in the middle of that bell curve doing their thing

That’s literally a fucking echo chamber. A community that has a voting mechanism that reinforces the views of the majority and suppresses anything unpopular with that majority group.


And yet plenty of right wing echo chambers exist there too and have for a very long time. They continue to host communities on reddit which are all, one sided. What exactly are you doing here on HN? Injecting politics, how are you any different than the folks you're complaining about?


Talking objectively these days is a very political act.


> And yet plenty of right wing echo chambers exist there too and have for a very long time. They continue to host communities on reddit which are all, one sided.

You’re confused about what I’m saying. I didn’t refute that some group can gather in a special sub for right-wing topics while carefully banning thousands of wider users.

What I’m talking about is hosting a non-political community. The entire user-base of Reddit, on average, is leftist and those views leak into your community in the form of votes against/for particular topics.

> What exactly are you doing here on HN? Injecting politics, how are you any different than the folks you're complaining about?

Again, you’re confusing explicitly discussing politics with the effect of an echo chamber enforced by votes. Do you need me to explain the difference further?


Have to agree. 280 characters is not that much better than 140, and what good ideas are compressed into that format. Sure you can link to a blog post, but then you might as well use rss.


Yep. I do follow Reddit via daily emails but rarely go there and comment or post.


I think something we don't want to hear is that maybe we dont need non-curated, non peer approved, non verified contents and comments in life.

If newspapers have not evolved before the internet into just readers sending their mails it's because of the ultra low quality of nobody's view on anything.

Social media made us believe they were helping us share opinions to get the conversation started more directly, but in fact they just wanted to sell us toothbrushes while we were addicted to the fast food equivalent of journalism. Then it influenced journalists as well who dont know anymore how to lower their quality to get us to read them, now. Again to sell toothbrushes so they can survive.

And yes this comment itself is obvious, low quality, self contradicting too


You could try keyword blocking, but this wouldn't extend specifically to individual users. User specific keyword blocking would be cool.


On Twitter go to:

Settings/Privacy & Safety/Muted/Muted words

You can put in all your political words like “Trump” “Biden” to remove from your feed

This has improved my Twitter 10x. IT people can be so annoying on Twitter, they basically all have the same political stance. I have a lot more respect for the people who just tell people to vote.


This isn't a solution to your exact problem, but I find that muting specific keywords helps


Twitter needs a way to subscribe/follow a dynamic list of mute keywords, as mind viruses trend, spread, mutate and fade.


Oh yea, I wish I could block the whining that happens here on hacker News, it really turns me off the platform. Many threads I open and the top comment is just some tangential moan about something barely related to the subject matter.


This comment is either skillfully ironic or blindingly unaware.


Woosh


From my start on Twitter, about 8 years ago, I have striven to keep my brand professional, mostly exchanging messages with other techies and micro-blogging. I also mix in some of my other interests, but above all I try to stay out of politics. This is hard to do when so many people I follow for professional networking are compelled to tweet and retweet really unhinged stuff. It's nothing but virtue signalling, almost never any content, mostly slogans, links to rants by thought leaders, and really hate-filled messages.

I've broken my rule recently to tweet covid-19 data and science. I try to make these tweets especially factual, but I have allowed my own views, which have changed over time, come through. This has become a political arena I cannot stay out of. I've been insulted by people I previously respected in the professional community, just ad hominem attacks, no data, no science, really no objective content at all.


My secret sauce of using Twitter is simply

* blocking popular and/or controversial political figures

* blocking whole list of controversial or outrage keywords

* training myself to skip tweets by outrage machine when they succeed to sneak through above two filters

* unfollowing anyone who has poor signal to noise ratio. More tweets about outrage than about anything I find useful.

With all these my twitter experience has been relatively pleasant.


>unfollowing anyone who has poor signal to noise ratio. More tweets about outrage than about anything I find useful.

I find this to be the most frustrating part of Twitter. There is a significant contingent of subject matter experts that freely co-mingle personal commentary on unrelated topics with their 'thought leadership'.


The really really frustrating part is that a good alternative existed.

It was know as Google+, allowed people to post under different topics from the same account and also create multiple pseudonyms that one could easily switch between.

Besides, for some reason the most annoying people from Twitter and Facebook never "got it" so it was mostly just photographers, electronic enthusiasts, Linux people and gardeners (at least that was my bubble).

Edit: also frustrating: for some reason the focus of Mastodon and ActivityPub seems to be on Twitter-style interactions, at least that was my impression last I checked.


That is a bit of a narrow view.

Twitter has escaped Twitter. It is now everywhere, intertwined with other 'social' media, with other Internet forums, with traditional media.

You (we) cannot escape Twitter's nefarious effects any more, it doesn't matter who you follow directly on Twitter, it doesn't even matter whether you are on Twitter or not. Your 'timeline' may be clean and interesting, but you're still exposed to Twitter's virality.


Indeed. This started in the Arab Spring, and made it very clear that Twitter is a political accelerant, the fuel to everyone's Molotovs. However, because it's so determined to be content neutral, it offers no guarantee of the results of your revolution.

Changing who you follow won't clear Tahrir Square or Kiev Maidan.


Agreed. Twitter has an impact on your world whether or not your personal feed is ok.


Or if you're on Twitter at all.


I believe the word is society as opposed to Twitter. Anything dealing with people either changes nothing and is useless or it influences society and its effect cannot be escaped. Beanie Babies technically fall into the same category as they became a generational touchstone and every speculator who went bankrupt by affected services usage and tax revenue. It is sensationalized but I fail to see anything new.


There are two challenges with this - first, following people who focus on one thing, and second, focusing on one thing yourself.

When people tweet about a professional interest like code, and their other interests, and family things, and random fun stuff, your timeline gets noisy. Likewise, if you follow people because you like code, and more people for your other interests, and you follow your friends, and fun stuff, then it gets really noisy too.

I follow a lot of people for frontend dev things, but also some more people for wildlife photography, and local Northeast UK tech scene stuff. I had to cut down from following about 1000 people at peak to 300 because I couldn't keep up at all.

If you can focus who you follow and what you use Twitter for then it's good, but for most people who have multiple interests it's not. Lists help a lot, but you need discipline to use them well.


You used to be able to do the same thing with Facebook. It requires a lot of discipline there, because Facebook is always trying to douse you with a hose of poop.

On Twitter it’s easier. I follow baseball, ancient history people and museums, local topics, and some tech topics, and a tight list of COVID sources due to my job. But 2020 is a crazy year and even very typically narrow focus nerds are political and upset.


I moved almost entirely to lists for this reason, but with mixed results.

I follow too many people to categorize all fo them, so my hack is to wait until someone tweets into my main feed. Then when they do I add them to a list and then unfollow them. Ideally that means my main feed is empty.

The problem with this approach is that a lot of smart people are political right now. I'm political and so I appreciate this and know where they are coming from. But it does make it hard to have a single-purpose reading experience. For example, my feed of basketball twitter accounts is great when there is a game on, but it actually not all that different from my list of political/news accounts the rest of the time.

But overall, I think this is the approach to take.


The article isn't saying "my feed is boring", or even "my feed is full of extremists". I have a feeling the guy knows how to choose who to follow.

The problem he's raising is that at a social level, extremists voices spread much faster that sane ones because the way Twitter (and others) are built. The the tool of virality, once used for marketing, is now used to cripple down society. Sure you can pick who to follow, but as you can see from stories like pizzagate more and more people are having hard time choosing the right people to follow, and that makes our world a dangerous place.

He's not leaving Twitter because he didn't his experience. He's leaving because he thinks it's harmful to society and he doesn't want to be part of it.


This. Very well put.


> I think what most fail on when it comes to Twitter, is following the right people.

The right way to follow the right people on Twitter — bookmark/remember link to their profile & newer clicks on "Follow" button.

[0] https://twitter.com/app4soft/status/1085349414192009216


Same experience here. If you exclusively follow smart, interesting people, it's pretty great.


I do something similar.

I am on vacation now for a few days, but normally I have the Freedom service open a window of access for Twitter and HN briefly twice a day. Anything useful, then I paste URLs into my todos list.

Twitter us about just following very interesting people.


The problem is that almost everyone seems to dabble in politics or current events or argument which leads to you having to watch them throw a tantrum on the internet.


Much the world is in the grips of multiple overlapping political crises, many of which have existential consequences for the communities they impact.

Expecting people not to talk about these crises is like expecting Europeans living through WWI not to talk about all that ugly trench warfare business.


Most know better than to scream. When they scream, they get cancelled.

Don't scream.


I hate how if you do something like quit using Twitter after being a user or quit working for Facebook after working there and you get cred, but don't use it to begin with or never apply to places you think are sketch and people will just roll their eyes, even it you aren't the one bringing it up.


Are you familiar with the story of the prodigal son from the Bible?

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15%3A11-32...

Background: a man has two sons. He gives half of his wealth to each. The older son is a regular hardworking fellow who stuck around and helped and obeyed his father. The younger one squandered all of it away and after falling upon hard times, realized the folly of his ways and came back to his father, full of repentance. The father threw a large feast for him.

“The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

“‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”


The father mentioned his reasons, but still did not do anything to make it just and fair for the older brother.


The point of the story is that loyalty to authority is its own reward, and that to submit to authority is the only life choice that ultimately matters.

The context is a religion where faith in an ultimate authority- adopted at any point in life so long as it is judged sincere- is rewarded eternally after death. (And in less gentle interpretations, lack of faith is punished eternally after death.)

It's internally consistent as a tool of indoctrination, but a good example of how religious tracts are a questionable basis for systems of morality.


I don't get that at all from the story. It teaches that you should stop worrying so much about yourself and celebrate the success of others, even when you think you are "better" than those other people.

And it's a rather precient parable because jealosy of a sibling is a common thing.

When others overcome something difficult, like addiction, I try to celebrate with them. I don't sulk and complain that i'm not getting enough adulation for never getting addicted in the first place.


Super cynical interpretation, but an interpretation nonetheless.

A more positive view: The story is about celebrating the good (his brother/son came back!) and not focusing on perceived injustices. In other words, gratitude.


Here's my take: It's good to be good to others, we should all understand that.

So when someone who didn't understand that before sees the light it is a great reason to rejoice. Now we have one more person who sees the light.

The brother who stayed at home should feel the same, if indeed he too has seen the light too. But if he didn't he didn't. I think that part of the story is really simply saying yes there are people like that too who do things only to gain a reward without understanding the intrinsic value of co-operation and love.


Most of the story, in fact, focuses on the disproportionate and unexpected response of a father welcoming back a son who left while saying "I wish you were dead."

The son came back out of desperation and didn't even get his pre-planned speech of apology out of his mouth, he just showed up.


> "everything I have is yours"

You must have missed that part of the story. The hardworking son who stayed home has been working on the family business, growing it, and is set to inherit everything including all the growth that has happened. He's still getting his half plus interest basically, which is worth far more than a single party. Meanwhile the son who wasted his half isn't going to get anything else now. The party is a one time thing. The hardworking son is set for life.


Yeah that's how I read into it. The son gets a one time pitty gift.

The older son has it made.


I think implicit in the story is that the eldest son is set to inherit everything in time.


He explains why it's just and fair.


Significantly, the younger son asked for his inheritance before his father's death.

To the elder son's complaints,the father merely responds (in the present tense) "all that I have is yours." Has that son perhaps not understood what he was in possession of?


yeah a story to teach people obedience to the "authority"(i.e. father or religious leader) even if the authority is treating you like shit. Stop bitching about unfairness/inequality! Your reward is awaiting you in a parallel universe!


This story is why people celebrate when someone beats addiction but don't give a shit about your day job. Everyone loves a redemption story.


Don't you think throwing an epic/unaffordable party is a bit too much?

1. He came home empty handed. This doesn't really mean he won't leave again nor that he will make up for the damage he's done.

2. Why the other brother has to work like a slave with no reward? Not even a promise to change the current affairs. Just the old empty/vague encouragement "what i have is yours <but not now, later...>, we must all work <but actually you work and I watch.. >".

Let's make this a modern story about the financial crisis in 2008. The party guys get bailed out by the hard working people. Big Party?

Fast forward 2021: party guys will be rewarded even more.


Inheritance is central to the story. The older brother is working to increase the value of the estate, because he’ll inherit half one day. The younger brother asked for his half up front in cash and wasted it. The older brother is pissed because he cares about doing the right thing, and he’s not especially rewarded for doing it when others don’t.

There’s another story in the Bible about this, the vineyard workers. Workers are hired for the day with the promise of a day’s wage. Some are hired in the morning, others at noon, afternoon, and an hour before dark. The morning workers are angry because everyone got paid the same, and the vineyard owner reminds them that they were paid fairly, and that they should not let what others receive damage their contented-ness.

Christianity’s emphasis of forgiveness and full welcoming has been criticized by many austere and rigorously just religions and philosophies.


"A deal is a deal, no matter how raw you realize yours is."

Seems like a useful philosophy to keep your workers (or, by analogy, a populace) in line.


I didn’t downvote you, but think about whether that was actually being said.


You are taking the older son at his word but not the father. That's not the only way to read it.


No, it is a tale about our nature. Think about it, say you lost 20 bucks but later find it, aren't you happier that you found it than when your predictable paycheck arrives every month?

You might be so happy as to celebrate and use that money on something frivolous. Does that mean you should treat all your money this way all the time?


This parable has nothing to do with obedience to authority.


I think it would have been fairer if the father threw a party for the other son too.


You missed the entire point.


Could be because like most stories in the Bible (or religious texts more generally) that the lesson learnt is often vague or implicit, and therefore may not even exist.


Could be that the lesson is that the person who never picks up Twitter or works at Facebook in the first place is never celebrated because they were never lost to begin with (in this context). But the person who quits Twitter or resigns recognizes a sort of lack of direction, and that is what is celebrated. Not the person. The process


Good point. These stories were not designed to teach us something. Maybe they often do. But they are just stories which people like (to hear and tell) and therefore they have survived in the memic evolution.


No, the point is tediously clear, as with most religious parables. I merely disagree with it.


> this brother of yours was dead and is alive again

So don't bother trying to not die, since you can respawn and have a feast thrown for you.


Of course the father was happy to get his other son back. Which father wouldn't? It is his right then to throw a party. It is not to celebrate the son who came back, but to celebrate the fact that the father and more properly the whole family got one more (grown up) member. And think about the network effects. The whole is bigger than the sum of its parts. I think the other son just was a kind of grudgy person


You don’t quit social media for “cred”. You do it to improve your life (less anxiety, less misinformation, more meaningful interactions with friends, etc). If you are expecting the approval of others for quitting social media then maybe you are better off being part of it.


True, but I think if someone quits social media and then writes a big post about it and submits it to HN that could suggest they want some kind of recognition for it.


I think you mistake my opinion of Twitter for my opinion of all media and all social networks. Virality of the kind Twitter relies on is not essential to the definition of a social network. I do not quit out of a desire for some ascetic lifestyle or asocial tendency. I like to discuss ideas in the comment threads of HN as much as anyone. That's originally what drew me to the service over 10 years ago.

As to why I wrote this, I thought HN readers may be interested in my take on how we got here, having worked in the space professionally. After all, social media tech used to be a big thing on these forums back in the day.

Then again, maybe there's also a lesson in that we expect anyone who writes anything now only does it to farm clicks.


Not really. A lot of people write for the sake of sharing ideas and learning from replies. I understand that social influence is a powerful currency today, but not everybody is farming it.


I feel similarly.

People designed these things, and today feel guilty about doing so.

Fine, no one is holding you to not thinking it through, I can personally give someone a pass for this.

But to make a routine about your lack of foresight, when others clearly worried about it? Worse, were such an argument to be successful, it would be a statement on the rigor of the audience, and not the people trying to clean their reputation.


I don't think you need to be so cynical about it. People have been writing and sharing what they wrote for thousands of years.


Interesting point. It sounds almost like a relapse of social media use at that point.


This was my experience (You do it to improve your life...), and I'm very glad I did. It's almost the same feeling I had when after quitting smoking for a month, almost elation - I had really done it. The space that twitter occupied in my life was in amazing disproportion to the actual point of it. "Cred" doesn't come in to it.


Never used any of it before. In my opinion, so called "lurking" is usually more productive on the internet than directly participating.

Even here on HN, practically anonymous and without an e-mail address tied to my account, I mostly feel that my own contributions just aren't as valuable so instead of contributing I just read.

For almost any service, having to create an account is usually where I stop being interested. Even dismissing the cookie pop up is too much work for a website where I might only be for a short period.

What feels weird about it is that in my generation this seems uncommon. I have absolutely no idea what any of my peers are doing with their lives...


The commentary from someone with tangible experience with a company or service generally is more credible when they make a statement regarding the thing in question than someone who has not.

This is entirely situational, of course, but may help explain what you described.


Imagine how an environmentalist from the 70s feels!


I was just thinking about that too this AM while working on my car. No one is on twitter to have a conversation, it’s a room full of screaming people. I wouldn’t walk into that room physically, so why am I walking into virtually? It’s time to quit


It would be funny to get a bunch of people from Twitter that have been shouting at each other together into a room and ask them to re-enact their 'conversation' in person.


That would make for an interesting youtube video! Realistically you could get actors to read the lines. Although the text that someone wrote could be orally said in many different ways; it might be challenging to accurately portray the conversation.


It's been done for YouTube comments before. There's a series about it: https://youtu.be/MxrWuE5qC5c


people from Twitter that have been shouting at each other together into a room and ask them to re-enact their 'conversation' in person

Mike Tyson says: “Social media made you all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it.”


The format and discoverability are the biggest problem. Any conversation is hidden away in accounts tweets. If you don't know the specific account then you won't know what's being talked about. There's also no community unless your already famous. It's essentially anonymous.

Reddit I think has the potential for the best discussion platform. The people are the biggest problem, and upvotes are a good idea, but doesn't seem to work in practice


IMO discoverability is an anti feature. Having random people drop in constantly means you can never have a real community or users that are even familiar with the rules.

I love things like IM groups/discord servers because they are somewhat hidden and hard to find. You get invited by a friend or see a link somewhere and join and when you do join you tend to stick around for a while.


"No one is on twitter to have a conversation, it’s a room full of screaming people."

It's not a room, but a city. You've clearly been spending time in a bad part of town. Ruthlessly curating lists of people/accounts worth following will transform your experience.


Ruthlessly curating lists of people/accounts worth following will transform your experience.

But who has time for that? The OP said he was thinking about it while working on his car. A real life thing that I expect is a lot more satisfying than staring at phosphor being "ruthless" to strangers.


> "who has time for that?"

Given how many hours of daily television are consumed by your average 1st-world person, just about everyone.


Twitter is certainly more palatable with a ruthlessly curated feed. In fact I think it's a mandatory action or you'll simply stop engaging with the platform. So anyone who's an ongoing twitter user is guaranteed to have a highly filtered view of what's posted.

So in the end the tailoring capability makes itself an obligation, which leads to users floating in their own opinions and information bubble, leads to ... interesting ... outcomes when the real world comes knocking.

This is markedly different to how it has been before with specialist forums etc. There, while there was coalescence around particular topics, the range of opinions and personalities participating was otherwise quite open and the ability to filter was limited (or rather, elective in a way that twitter feed curation is not). There was certainly some self-selection at play but it's intensified massively with the shift in dynamic.

Facebook has the same issue as twitter of course and I suspect many other platforms as well - One mitigating approach is to try and keep conflicting views on your feed but it quickly becomes so tiresome that your engagement with the platform as a whole drops.

I'm not sure there's a good approach other than to go full wargames.


Even most "good" people/accounts aren't really having a conversation.

Tweets are almost always very bold statements with little nuance.


Sure, but that's true IRL too -- and is mostly moot if you enjoy scanning your highly-curated lists of Twitter handles to see what certain smart and/or interesting people have to say.


Twitter's UI is hostile to conversation. It took me ages to figure out how to read replies (vs. make a reply myself) and on mobile navigating around different replies is horrible, even worse than Reddit's attempt to make this hard.


Twitter used to drive me crazy. I had an account but didn't login for years at a time. My use has gone up significantly by:

1. Only following industry people and chefs. Basically just work and hobby. Anyone that strays into politics or social issues is hard cut. Not because they're wrong for doing so, but because with an anxiety disorder I'm not equipped to handle the constant bombardment of that. 2. I got a plugin that blocks the trending topics. 3. I have a keyword blocker for anything politically or socially related.

With that my experience has improved dramatically, but I really only was able to curate that experience because I work in the social media marketing industry. Regular users aren't as well equipped in the slightest. It's great because now I can use it for networking and my interests in a way thats much better than Facebook groups (which is what I formerly used to make industry connections).


I fervently believe that having software "agents" that work to overcome the algorithmic feed and provide us with balanced / beneficial social media. It's going to be a long slog to get there, kind of like our generations fight for safety at work legislation (or pollution legislation).

This needs not only the software to exist (what plug-in do you use?) but the regulatory environment to allow / support / promote it and controversially the default settings - which I suspect will be the biggest political fight - I think we need to explore the concepts of Libertarian Paternalism exposed by Richard Thaler.


This is the plugin I use for chrome. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hide-twitter-trend...

As for the keyword blockers that actually is a Twitter feature now though it's a bit buried. The "hard cuts" I talked about were a combo of unfollowing/muting/blocking depending on how aggressive they were / are.


Can you define balanced or beneficial? Can you define it remotely mathematically?

If no to the second algorithims are flat out impossible. They aren't magical genies regardless of what you believe. If no to the first you can't even make ill-considered laws.

Even somehow having the concept is no guarantee - it could be a largely useless tautology of the Drake equation. If we knew the density of intelligent alien life and parameters of signals they would actually use we wouldn't be asking why we haven't found any yet. If you cannot obtain the information how are you going to tell if it is "beneficial" or "balanced" as opposed to your own assumptions as articles of faith?


Oh hell - this is politics not mathematics. We as humans are being outclassed in a digital fight with tech companies. We need to have software on our side individually. But we also need the political environment for that.

A generation or two ago most of the western world fought wars over the spoils of the industrial revolution - and built a political-economic environment that benefitted individuals and shared the wealth more so than in hundreds of years.

The countries that do this again for the digital revolution are going to benefit as much as the west did last time.

It might not be us.

Writing the software to guide our lives is the easy part. It's not about social media - that's just the obvious part. This is going to be about all parts of our lives - banking software that considers your long term budget and stops you buying the crap item on amazon.

Software that sits down each evening and reviews how you spoke with your wife / child / co worker

I am going to have to put this into a book form to gain any traction - plus it's 1 am so I am likely not making best sense, but this is so inherent in the technology it just seems obvious as a next step. We will be guided by technology - we cannot possibly absorb all the information in the world so something will curate for us.

The political challenge of the 2-C is defining what does the curation and on what terms. Facebook optimising for engagement is wrong on all counts. What is right is politics not algorithm.


I can certainly define "balanced or beneficial" for me, and I read the parent's post as suggesting just that: Giving me control over what feeds I see and codifying my right to individual control with the force of law.


Or something like federated platform which supports federated feeds, federated messaging, federated moderation/spam filtering. The idea is to have all the different aspects of the platform federated separately, and have all the aspects under control by the user, they choose who to get services for each aspect from, and can set up their own stuff as well. The user can move on from a service provider for that distributed platform if they don't like it any more.


Completely agree. Ideally these agents would work as very smart proxy servers, so they can work for everybody in a household without futzing around with browser-specific extensions. And such agents must to be completely outside Twitter's control; i.e. they have to be based on scraping, not some API that can be yanked at any time.


>Yet Another Quitting Twitter Story

Not much more content in the actual piece. Seems to be very fashionable these days to either quit social media or traditional journalism for substack but honestly I feel like it resembles self-advertisement combined with mediocre pieces more than anything of value.

The argumentation like in this piece is usually that there is some bad incentive that these independent platforms avoid, like virality in this case, or being beholden to someone else, but I don't see how this isn't true for independent publishing.

If you run your own platform you potentially still want it to go viral if you want to monetize it (which I assume why people post it to sites such as HN or reddit, read social media), and you're beholden to your readers in a sort of patronage like relationship.


At no point did say independent platforms are immune, but I can see why there might be the appearance of that subtext since I'm using substack. I'm using substack because I can use it without needing to buy into a social graph, and I enjoy writing longform.

I think the messages that are effective on Twitter are true of all media whose goal is to reach as many people as possible. The things that work on Twitter did not start on Twitter, which I mention. Word of mouth marketing was coined in the 70s, I believe. What I believe makes social platforms more vulnerable to it is the user's inability to protect themselves from the messages of its most effective extreme actors.


Platforms are an anti-Web regression.


The most strong signal I get is that substack is putting in a lot of money seemingly to bootstrap content.


> The tools that users have to manage their information intake have not matured as quickly as virality tools. This is mostly because social media's financial incentives are in advertising and analytics, which are at odds with user curation.

The purposeful marginalization of RSS takes on new meaning in this context. RSS consumption enables control. Great for users. Not so great for other more power-hungry entities.


Even Craigslist has dumped RSS:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24840310

:-(


If you are a reader looking for a viable alternative to Twitter and problematic social media in general, take a look at the Fediverse.

I wrote an article explaining the Fediverse, but really you can just search online for it. https://torresjrjr.com/archive/2020-07-19-guide-to-the-fediv...

https://fediverse.network

It's decentralised and federated, and works on sane, standard protocols. It essentially rips out the problems caused by massive centralisation. I'm a big advocate for it, and for good reason. I believe we're currently collectively around 3 million users and growing, so it's definitely not a niche. It's not a magic wand of a solution, but it delivers where it matters the most.


I never really got involved with Twitter. I made an account and followed a few that I thought might be interesting but it just didn't really engage or entice me enough to make it a daily habit.

I'm not at all fannish though and I think Twitter appeals most to those who are. It gives them a connection to celebrities and that's a very deep seated aspect of our cultures.

I'm more into learning and we can learn something from everyone so I spend my internet time more on long form media that dives deeper into subjects that interest me. Sometimes a tweet I've seen will lead me there so I don't think it's worthless, but most of those I see are referenced somewhere other than Twitter.


I don't have Twitter. Where do I sign-up for my piece of blog to lament why I don't have Twitter? </sarcasm>


I wish if there is option to turn of "What's happening". That is where "Today's Madness" comes from. Hashtag feature is hacked by political organisations/bots.

The users's I follow, usually science and tech, mostly post interesting stuff.


Everyone still in their right mind should quit Twitter.

Actual, now is a very good moment to do so. Quit before the election. You're not going to miss anything healthy.


Anyone have a quality the 'elevator pitch' type message on why someone should leave twitter for something like substack?


I don't even consider substack as a competitor to twitter. I'll admit I am biased since I have never seen the appeal of Twitter, and every single time I have used it is has left a bad taste. But Substack seems to mostly be a way for journalists and writers to independently write. The writers I follow on substack write long form essays, and are usually too heterodox to exist in mainstream media. Its the next evolution of blogs really, and more serious than medium. Twitter is 140 characters of nonsense that has produced zero good.


“the endgame of virality is extremism”


Can someone please explain to me how subscriptions work on Substack?

I just spent 5 minutes clicking around and still can't figure it out. How much is it? Where does my money go?

Reading a piece on Substack then clicking "Subscribe" only to have them demand my email address with no additional info is really off-putting.


Apparently, it‘s free at first, but publishers can choose to charge later:

„Build your audience on Substack, or bring them over. When you're ready, you can add paid subscriptions.“




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