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"China's military will impact the nature and breadth of the decline."

care to elaborate?




I am not OP, but suspect he is referencing South China Sea and Taiwan actions. If the PLA is more aggressive, companies will leave more quickly, and the opposite is true.

If you are in a conflict zone, exporting to other countries isn't the way to get rich; selling to the armies is.


I would say it is more about how closely tied to IP sharing (by law AFAIK) of any company doing business in China.

For example, right now I'm helping indirectly build an AI, that is being shared with a sister company in China, and I just recently learned about said IP sharing law and am now concerned that it will be used in military applications (such as autonomous boats or drones, but with lethal application)


If it can be it will be and expecting otherwise when it comes to China is incredibly naive.


"when it comes to"

And when it comes to any country or even the Green Peace's Rainbow Warrior fighting Vessel or even me myself, if I get my hands in the Lex Luthor's new A.I.

Humans are here for profit, or what.

This is Naive: to expect is only from China......

Come on...


That's a really good point honestly. To pretend the USA doesn't use its massive surveillance engine for that kind of thing is silly.


So if you are saying that the N.S.A. or The CIA are coming to kill me, tell them to stand on the line, because the Chinese Intelligence is already on tis job of eliminating me...Ok...Xi Jin Pin is sending His own personal best killers to hunt me and kill me, If you did not read all my history of comments, then you should know it already, PLUS, Russians are already Hate me too, if you read my comments, you will see I have , Hate , the Sputnik News and Other Bullshit from Nazi name Putin. I am brave guy right????? Nothing to fear when you are already Dead, right, and the chinese, the russian and the american , want you dead...So shut up and survive, right? NO , my friend, I am already dead...you are blackmailing the wrong person, cannot blackmail a Dead Person(body)...so...I am waiting for some argument from you that prove that you are smarter then that, my friend, and don't need fucking B;lackmail to make a point.................

SO if someone(from beijing, moscow or washington) Have all the access to my unedited file, and they have it, my friend, believe me....

They know I am , just a old crazy Marijuana smoker who is Jobless recently and is bored and has nothing better to do then write fucking stupid and insane comments on hacker news....

Old people withou a job is the worst thing for this old people Mental health....

I should find a job as soon as possible, even if is cleaning the streets or taking care of public gardens...anything to do but stupid internet comments...

well and I am for hire, and now , the most important, If is for the good of humanity, I will do it, no matter who is for, ok, i said for the good of humanity...

so... I would do it even for free...but i am broke , no money even to buy my marijuana now...so...

Anyway, I care more for the Good-Faith then the money...

I did't go to the obligatory (law obligation) military service because they decided I was physically useless for them, and I didn't had a high-school degree, so i was intellectually useless for them too....But I didn't want to go....

Because they pay you 0 bucks and I was in age of having girlfriends and smoke pot...But also because I believe in Peace. I am a pacifist...

But I fucking admire people who has fucking Balls and people who has fucking Honor, like the guys in the Navy.


Just to add to the point above where I say that beijing, moscow, washington, have all access to my unedited file, I forgot to mention Her Majesty the Queen and the MI-6 have the oldest file on me, since the day I was born, because I was born by the hands of a surgeon doctor that was an agent of the MI-6, who went to fucking west europe and to fucking east europe to fight the fucking nazi . And he had nightmares and could not sleep well for the rest of his life, because he saw the children in Paris packed in the holes of the street, hunger and freezing, covering themselves with newspaper, and he saw that they look exactly like the poor mouses and rats on the streets too. And he remembered his 5 children 10.000 kilometers away.

So...they know I am for peace and pot.

...even forgot to say that he was my grandfather, and there is a street with his name in owr town...

Already lets open the last bit...The street name is actually of my granpa's father, so my grandgranfather or something like this. American (U.S.) family.

The little hospital my grandGrandpa built, where my grandpa was born, and where my father was born, and where I was born...

still stands to this day, unmodified, in his original taste, since my granGranpa opened it.

Dr. Taves Health Home. We accept credit cards. look at Altavista : )


Let's make a Thought Experiment, like those Einstein use to do:

I wonder who looks Silly, Now.

If I was the boss of N.S.A. , Mister arminiusreturns, I would not hire you, or I would fire you now, because you gave yourself up so easily, and you didn't see even who you was talking too...easy research...easy logic...easy "secure" broke with silly comment...you don't know how to even secure, and you are Fired.


As China's military becomes closer and closer to Western standards, supply chain integration and Western business in China will dry up in response. Western companies will not want to do business with direct competition and even if they did, the US govt wouldn't let them.

If doing business in China means funneling new tech to the PLA that could result in theoretical American deaths, then we don't do business in China anymore.

A historical precedent would be the soviet union, where we wouldn't even let ball bearing be exported to Soviet block countries. You can already see this with the current chip wars.


> Western companies will not want to do business with direct competition and even if they did, the US govt wouldn't let them.

The US was a crucial partner in building up the nazi and soviet manufacturing capabilities.

Public US companies care more about the next quarter way more then ant nationalist loyalties.


> As China's military becomes closer and closer to Western standards, supply chain integration and Western business in China will dry up in response.

You and parent are saying different things.

The US has historically had no problem trading with and building up any economy with cash (your point).

But once that economy reaches parity with the US, if they have serious ideological / political differences, the US is quick to lock down legal trade (parent's point).

This observation (in general about the West) was the origin of the "hide our capacities and bide our time" component of Deng Xiaoping's 1990 strategy that Xi (foolishly and prematurely, imho) threw out the window.


Funny story: at the moment, Chinese are using the American market for some of their military R&D. This is particularly visible in the civilian firearm industry, where we're seeing a flood of quality Chinese optics and electronics, including stuff like IR laser designators and even night vision.

Their first products were really crappy - stereotypical "made in China" stuff - but cheap, and it carved out the niche. Then more expensive things started showing up, but they still cost 2-3x less than comparable Western offerings, at similar quality levels. Now, most of the mid-range optics segment is dominated by Chinese-manufactured electronics with American and European brands stamped on it.

And I can't help but think that every time an American gun owner buys another Holosun red dot, he actually buys two: one for himself, and one for a PLA soldier.


"then we don't do business in China anymore."

If that is indeed the case, I think is too late, in my opinion.

The historical precedent doesn't account for the fact that Russia and China are currently members of the WTO and that they have their own group named BRICS.

But I applaud your initiative on thinking on the issue and the Logic of your thinking is Good, and this is the most important.

A bit of information less then the needed, in this case, doesn't mean the Logic was not good. So, the understanding can be good.

And something important I have to say, I think, in my opinion, that is a naive misconception to count non-nuclear non-strategical weaponry in any reasoning, those are just toys to play, to show to the other kids and make poor kids envy, they are not weapons, in the Real Game of the Globe. Count only the ICBC in your logic, and you can have a better understanding.


Non-nuclear, non-strategic weaponry been important in every war fought since 1945.

While not between major powers, these wars have changed world affairs.

PS: You might not intend the way your comments come off. Speaking about another's logic for three paragraphs -- seems more negatively patronizing than anything else.


Russia is a paper tiger long past its prime, China is on the rise but needs US technology and innovation (currently).


Russia has shown to improve the skills of mounting 24 nuclear fusion bombs x 30 mach speed - "snow flakes" On Proton[1] derived Rockets, (those to took the turtles to the moon and will take the turtles to Mars,( maybe.) )

attacking capabilities are believed to have evolved in the last 15 years.

And the Proton are the oldest of their rockets, my friend, and is still up and ready in this very moment....

1-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_(rocket_family)


> China is on the rise but needs US technology and innovation (currently).

China never needed, nor used it. USA is not innovating, nor creating new technology, that's a myth, unless you call somebody creating a 1000th clone of Facebook a "technology."

USA sat on the back of engineering and programming sweatshops in the third world for 3 decades already.

It requires one to have a special level of insecurity, to go so far hellbent on claiming their creativity as to print it in bold letters that "we surely did not buy this off the shelf from OEM in China."

The rich elites in USA are the ones with the strongest "pain:" no Chinese parent in his nightmare will imagine spending 100K+ on dumb "creativity" or "leadership" classes for his child, but in the West... you know the story.


If usa is not innovating, noone is.


What are creativity and leadership classes?


Hahaha, what? The USA created the internet, google, the smart phone, most pharmaceuticals. I could go on and on but why bother.

You must be joking with this.


[flagged]


> Is this a Chinese puppet account?

This toxic trope breaks the HN guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here.


Good catch Sir. Looks like a crazy robot with random-words-generated comments. Very weird.

I mean the one who was flagged.


A disorderly rebalancing of their economy, which increasingly looks likely, will require the military to repress dissent domestically (at great expense). It will also require that same military to assist the state in repatriating and collecting on financial assets and debt that have been sent abroad. I'm still summarizing, but you likely get the point.




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