I've been thinking a lot about this in the wake of the guy getting clocked on live TV, Richard Spencer-and the resulting fallout of people in my immediate circles openly cheering this behavior on.
Having long considered myself a moderate "leftist", the people I grew up thinking were the ones who stood at the vanguard of "Supporting free speech". I'm wondering what kind of road we're putting ourselves on where pre-emptive violence is acceptable in the face of uncomfortable ideas and disturbing information.
I recently lost a very near and dear friend on the topic of Spencer, not because we disagreed but because despite all attempts to talk about the matter reasonably with someone that I've had numerous spirited and intense, but always reasoned and respectful debates with-took the "go fuck yourself" route in response to my "I disagree with his ideas, but I also disagree with bestowing physical violence upon him for having those ideas". His response could be boiled down to a paraphrasing from the TV show Archer: "Do you want Nazi's? Because that's how you get Nazi's".
And I'm seeing this mentality echoed across multiple circles. It feels like the evolution of some of the things people talked about early on when they would call people "SJW's". Of course a reasonable person wouldn't be against social justice, but it's hard to critique some of the hostility the people that moniker is attached to without someone invariably coming along and accusing you of being some sort of -ist as if your critique of behavior is carte blanche critique of progress.
It wasn't our disagreement that made me walk away from the friendship, but his hostility toward the disagreement. Is this what the left is turning into?
I think you'd like Richard Rorty's book "Achieving Our Country" where he defines the Cultural Left vs the Progressive Left. It was written in 1998 and may very well have predicted the "Left will eat itself" state that we're in.
Regarding Spencer, believe what you want about violence as an instrument, but also remember that this guy openly calls for "Black Genocide" and would more than likely carry it out given any sort of power. I don't know how you might combat that without counterviolence, but it's certainly not "engaging" him and "hearing him out."
Thanks for the recommendation, I'm looking for new reading material so I just threw it in the cart over on Amazon.
and would more than likely carry it out given any sort of power
Sure. That's a great thought absolutely; except he has no power to enact such a policy (admittedly not the strongest counter point), and he certainly had no power that day while being interviewed to enact such a policy (probably a comparatively stronger counterpoint).
In the absence of power wielded to actively 'genocide' blacks like myself and others, pre-emptive assault says what about the assailant and those encouraging him?
That said, at the highest level-I don't disagree. I just wonder-again, where this road ends when we're looking for reasons to excuse pre-emptive physical assault at the presence of disagreeable ideas? Where and when do we begin to get uncomfortable with people getting slugged on the sidewalk for wearing a sign that says "I hate niggers?" (http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/5/53...)
I was hoping the image was from Die Hard: With a Vengeance before I clicked.
In regards to Spencer's power - few other people were being interviewed that day, at length. And even less people were making speeches in Washington DC.
All this said, the American legal system has a great history of protecting the KKK, the Nazi party, and the Nationalist Movement's free speech and despite my post is very unwilling to
Also, a Nazi shot an anarchist at a protest (https://twincitiesgdc.org/2017/01/22/seattleshootingpr/) soon after somebody punched Spencer. Why aren't people defending the anarchist on Twitter, at length, ad nauseum. It's just really... weird, I guess.
Not presupposing any conclusions here, just trying to further the discussion.
IMO it's the weakest of the series not including the reboots in the 2000's which I don't even consider canon and there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise :P
I hadn't heard about the shooting, but I think you've asked a pretty interesting question-one I will admit just looking at the reaction to Spencer alone I'm afraid to find an answer to.
Regardless of which "side" is more in the right or alternatively (see what I did there?) wrong about it, however you want to define "it", things are escalating towards a weird place and the terminus doesn't look pretty just by how we've gone about the last few weeks.
Having long considered myself a moderate "leftist", the people I grew up thinking were the ones who stood at the vanguard of "Supporting free speech". I'm wondering what kind of road we're putting ourselves on where pre-emptive violence is acceptable in the face of uncomfortable ideas and disturbing information.
I recently lost a very near and dear friend on the topic of Spencer, not because we disagreed but because despite all attempts to talk about the matter reasonably with someone that I've had numerous spirited and intense, but always reasoned and respectful debates with-took the "go fuck yourself" route in response to my "I disagree with his ideas, but I also disagree with bestowing physical violence upon him for having those ideas". His response could be boiled down to a paraphrasing from the TV show Archer: "Do you want Nazi's? Because that's how you get Nazi's".
And I'm seeing this mentality echoed across multiple circles. It feels like the evolution of some of the things people talked about early on when they would call people "SJW's". Of course a reasonable person wouldn't be against social justice, but it's hard to critique some of the hostility the people that moniker is attached to without someone invariably coming along and accusing you of being some sort of -ist as if your critique of behavior is carte blanche critique of progress.
It wasn't our disagreement that made me walk away from the friendship, but his hostility toward the disagreement. Is this what the left is turning into?