I can hear the whoooosh as that article went straight over your head. I think you need to take a step back and do a little introspection. Also that type of comment does not belong here on HN News.
Nope, it actually is funny. The subject herself thought so - seems like that part of the article went straight over your head.
I do not think it makes the world better when you obsessively avoid saying anything that might possibly offend someone, let alone try to police everyone else.
Tell me something, where do you draw the line? Do you think it's okay to make offensive jokes online? In the workplace? Just with close friends? What, if any, kind of offensive jokes are too offensive? Jokes about being overweight? sexist? racist?
Or is having to think about any of this too much trouble; your definition of "obsessively avoiding". Maybe you don't bother at all drawing a line? Perhaps You just say what you feel like to appeal to your/friends' sense of humor?
Given that offence it taken and not given, I think you'd best define "offensive" first. Then decide if you left any room for humor.
IMHO, there is humor in weight, gender and race. The point is, is one trying to amuse or deliberately offend.
Aside form this specific issue, I notice a huge cultural difference between the US and the UK in this. In the UK, we "take the piss". Its what we do. We sort of use it to equalise each other. In the US, it seems different. I am reminded of a situation a UK comedian found himself it. He's in the US, eating out with US friends. A man walks in with a awful wig on. UK bloke instinctively takes the piss out of him. The US lot are not happy. Apparently when a ridiculous looking person walks in people are supposed to be some how supportive of the attempt to better himself. In the UK, its cause for a lot of micky taking.
Back to the case in point, even the subject is not objecting to the humor, she is objecting deliberately nasty comments specifically meant to be nasty. That has nothing what so ever to do with humor.
The line? Well, IMHO, the line is intent. Is the comment meant to be funny or nasty.
Lastly, have to ask, is obesity a specific US sensitivity? Seems from my POV that there is a hell of a lot of excuse making for obesity in the US that does not happen else where. Any suggestion that its the persons own doing, eating badly and not exercising, is stamped on like its some sort of heresy. Where as here its pretty much the accepted reason.
>Lastly, have to ask, is obesity a specific US sensitivity? Seems from my POV that there is a hell of a lot of excuse making for obesity in the US that does not happen else where. Any suggestion that its the persons own doing, eating badly and not exercising, is stamped on like its some sort of heresy. Where as here its pretty much the accepted reason.
Well there are a lot of obese people here. They even get handicap placards at this point, its recognized as a disease etc. They're 1 step short of becoming a protected group.
The line seems rather clear. "Haha, you're fat" phrased in a witty way isn't too bad, and can be amusing even to the "victim" if they have a healthy self-image. But "you should do everyone a favor and kill yourself", or "do the right thing and don't share such pictures of yourself" are hateful comments that have nothing to do with wit.
Digging deeper, personal offensive jokes are acceptable when then joker knows the target well enough to know that it won't be taken as an actual offense. That's what makes them risky e.g. in workplaces where people don't know each other as well. But on the internet, such jokes are not personal to begin with.
You could replace the OP's picture with a photograph of any other overweight person and it wouldn't make a difference. It's only for people that recognize the person (including themselves) that the joke takes on a whole different meaning. As such, I don't have a huge problem with these jokes.
The hateful comments are a different story, but I find that it helps to remember that they are written by children and other people who simply lack the development of empathy, and should neither be taken seriously nor held completely responsible. They just don't understand, just as a toddler wouldn't understand the repercussions of firing a gun.
> The line seems rather clear. "Haha, you're fat" phrased in a witty way isn't too bad, and can be amusing even to the "victim" if they have a healthy self-image.
Are you serious? Fat people have a tremendously difficult time with being ridiculed for even existing, so no this joke was not acceptable.
> But "you should do everyone a favor and kill yourself", or "do the right thing and don't share such pictures of yourself" are hateful comments that have nothing to do with wit.
This joke and fat hatred go hand in hand. There are not separate entities, they are a part of the same continuum that made the joke a reality: fat people are lazy and have no impulse control and deserve ridicule.
> Digging deeper, personal offensive jokes are acceptable when then joker knows the target well enough to know that it won't be taken as an actual offense. That's what makes them risky e.g. in workplaces where people don't know each other as well. But on the internet, such jokes are not personal to begin with.
> You could replace the OP's picture with a photograph of any other overweight person and it wouldn't make a difference. It's only for people that recognize the person (including themselves) that the joke takes on a whole different meaning. As such, I don't have a huge problem with these jokes.
The amount of shit fat people get from close friends about being fat is just as bad as a society from a whole, so why exactly would it be OK if it was just someone you knew personally hating you vs. a stranger on the internet?
> The hateful comments are a different story, but I find that it helps to remember that they are written by children and other people who simply lack the development of empathy, and should neither be taken seriously nor held completely responsible. They just don't understand, just as a toddler wouldn't understand the repercussions of firing a gun.
People are fully aware of what they post. Racism, sexism, transphobia, homophobia, fat hatred, etc. are the basis for many memes and the comments that go with them. There are not separate, they are a part of the same underlying thoughts and stereotypes that people actually believe in.
I don't agree that the joke and hatred go hand in hand. I'm not fat (which perhaps somehow disqualifies me from having an opinion), but it doesn't come for free. This is the case for majority of non-fat people. Most people understand that although there are exceptions (e.g. the OP), being fat is a result of circumstances that you or your parents have control over. In the majority of cases, it's very different from racism, sexism, transphobia and homophobia.
Now, you are right that this doesn't mean fat people deserve to be ridiculed. Neither do smokers. But I'll happily jest with my friend's smoking, because I care and it would do her good to stop it. Poking fun at such things is a good motivator (I've been at the receiving end of this), you just have to be careful to use it only when you know it won't hurt the person's self esteem. That's why I think it is ok when you know the person well.
> The amount of shit fat people get from close friends about being fat is just as bad as a society from a whole
If you get shit from actual close friends, perhaps you should explain to them that's how you feel about it. Perhaps they are unaware. Seems more of a communication issue.
> People are fully aware of what they post.
No, they are not. I reiterate my analogy of a toddler with a gun.
Funny enough, I wasn’t even angry at first. I was actually kind of amused. Who doesn’t laugh at unfortunate shots of poorly dressed strangers? I’ve certainly done it before; the Internet runs on this kind of anonymous scorn.
If you read the article, she was more unhappy about the extremely negative comments from people, not the original picture and joke.
I draw the line where a joke or statement would be recognized by a third-party observer as hateful and/or intended to hurt someone. You know, like the comments that Ms. Seida actually said "took my heart with it".
And yes, that's not an objective binary distinction, because that is not possible when you're dealing with language and feelings.
My point is that it's not the topic that makes a joke offensive. You can have jokes about sex and race without them being sexist or racist.
That enough thought for you? Or do you prefer not to actually think about this and just wallow in self-righteousness and assume that anyone who disagrees with you must not be thinking?
> Perhaps You just say what you feel like to appeal to your/friends' sense of humor?
Isn't that what everyone does? If a joke is too cruel or personal then it won't be funny; I trust my friends' judgement enough that I don't think stupid stereotypes would amuse them.
"Offensive" is a red herring, like "unprofessional" - it's what people say when they can't come up with a real reason for why what you said was wrong.
Everyone draws the line in their own place. I think some people will draw the line too far one way, I think some people will draw the line too far the other way, and other people will think the same thing (both ways) about the place I draw the line.
The fact that one cannot come up with a universal rule that always works in all circumstances doesn't mean no one is allowed personal judgment.
It's quite clear that a whole class of humor is offensive but is still funny. And no, there shouldn't be any lines drawn - there are jokes that is both funny and also obscenely offensive to various races, religions, nations or ethical viewpoints; but there is no such thing as too offensive, even if they are about, for example, the funny habits of babyraping [$ethnic] priests of [$religion].
There definitely are (a lot of) jokes that are inappropriate to a particular situation and impolite to a particular audience, where it would be hurtful and/or incite conflict - but all of them are suitable in other situations and audiences.
Given that the holocaust has been fair game for humor for close to 50 years, as far as I can recall, I think it's allowable to make a joke about pretty much everything.
Perhaps you need to take a step back and realise that making a joke does not mean misunderstanding an issue. I for one certainly found it amusingly ironic that in an article supposed to be sympathetic to a fat girl had an "Enlarge" button on the picture. Not to mention that the article it's self in fact propagates the image even more.
Also, are you really saying humor has no place on HN? I see nothing in the FAQ about banning humor.
I can hear the whoooosh as that article went straight over your head. I think you need to take a step back and do a little introspection. Also that type of comment does not belong here on HN News.