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A list of donations that Bill Gates has made (youhavetocit.com)
84 points by stevenj on Feb 9, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 62 comments



I'm really confused right now. Over half of that money 18.5 billion, was donated to the "male circumcision consortium" so they can circumcise people in Africa. Is that really such an important issue that it became the recipient of one of the largest donations in the history of the world?

I'm certain that I must be missing something.


A quick Google search turns up this page[1] that lists the donation as "18.5 million to establish the [MCC]". That figure would make much more sense compared to the other figures.

[1] http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-do...

Edit: Try this Google search. The real number is almost certainly 18.5 MILLION, which makes this table total up to about 18 billion dollars instead of 37 billion. It's amusing how people are jumping through hoops to force this 18.5 billion figure to make sense rather than looking for a citation. (But rest assured that lists assembled by Internet blogs are reliable sources of information.) I'm sure we'll start seeing this "fact" start turning up in research essays and other linkbait blogs.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gates+donation+male+cir...


That makes more sense. For 18.5 billion, I wouldn't think there'd be a single person on the continent of Africa that wasn't circumsized.


For 18.5 billion, I'd be surprised if they had anything left.


I am also astonished by that number, but circumcision certainly seems to be an important way of fighting HIV.

"There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%."[1]

"Evidence among heterosexual men in sub-Saharan Africa shows a decreased risk of between 38 percent and 66 percent over two years"[2]

But Circumcision Rates in Africa are relatively high anyways, due to the population's religious background.[3]

Quote of New York Times Article: [4]

"Among those are 14 studies that provide what the experts characterize as “fair” evidence that circumcision in adulthood protects men from H.I.V. transmission from a female partner, cutting infection rates by 40 to 60 percent. Three of the studies were large randomized controlled trials of the kind considered the gold standard in medicine, but they were carried out in Africa, where H.I.V. — the virus the causes AIDS — is spread primarily among heterosexuals. "

"Other studies have linked male circumcision to lower rates of infection with human papillomavirus and herpes simplex Type 2."

" The procedure has long been recognized to lower urinary tract infections early in life and reduce the incidence of penile cancer."

So i guess it just all adds up in a way.

That being said, the number of over 18 billion Dollars (according to the article) being spent on this issue still astonishes me...

[1] http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Sexually_transmit...

[3] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Global_M...

[4] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circu...


> So i guess it just all adds up in a way.

It seems to "add up" only for experts from countries that do it traditionally (USA, Turkey, Israel) and recommend it, while basically no European country deems it medically necessary to recommend it, because there it is not traditionally practiced. In some European countries, like Sweden, Germany and Finaland, recently there were even attampts to legally consider circumcision as genital mutilation.

For me most of those 60% studies seem to be some sort of rationalisation based on a predetermined outcome: Let's find some strained statistical "evidence" that this stone age ritual that we are practicing, is somehow medically beneficial, so we can continue to cut our kids genitals to look like their father's without a bad conscience.

> There is compelling evidence that ... by approximately 60%

Did you ever read one of these 60%-papers yourselves and evaluated their reasoning, at how they arrive at their whopping 60%?

Their evidence is btw, even if published in medical journals, completely non-medical. All of those studies just claim that their strained stats show it, but they do not explain why. There is no established chain of causation and even the correlation is doubtful.

Here is a list of counter-arguments, basically claiming that the pro-arguments have been faked by circumcision proponents, many of them (like Prof Brian Morris who authored sevaral of these papers) being "circumfetishists", engaging in circumcisions for sexual pleasure, or having a Jewish background.

[1] http://www.salem-news.com/fms/pdf/2011-12_JLM-Boyle-Hill.pdf

[2] http://www.circleaks.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

[3] http://www.circumstitions.com/

[3.2] http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html

[3.1] http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html

[3.3] http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA-garenne.html


Is there a chance this is a case of correlation studies reported as causation by the media?

I find it unconvincing that it might protect against HIV. Personal incredulity and the endorsing of the WHO aside, how does that work?


The general theory is that circumcision causes a change in the membrane and "microbiomes" around that part of the penis.

I still struggle, however, to believe that a truly controlled study could ever be conducted and I wonder if the money wouldn't be better spent just providing condoms and sexual education to these at risk groups. We already know that condoms are very, very good a reducing HIV transmission rates, plus they work for both partners (circumcision studies only show reduced transmission to men from women), and also consistent use can reduce the risk of cervical cancers, HPV and unwanted pregnancies. In a way, studies and campaigns that focus on circumcision are unethical if they don't also provide access to this highly effective device.

But going back to the studies, the problem I have understanding them is that there is, as far as I'm aware, no way to perform a placebo circumcision. Any adult who has a circumcision is surely likely alter his behavior or perhaps take greater notice of the sexual education he received alongside the circumcision. Or, perhaps he may have the superhero effect, thinking he can have more unprotected sex? That's the part that makes it hard for me to believe that studies are controlled. And for those studies that look only at populations that perform infant circumcisions, it seems even more likely that differences in cultural, religious or social norms of each population would have just as much influence as the operation.

If anyone has details on how these studies control for confounding factors like that, I'd be interested to hear.


> how these studies control for confounding factors like that

The answer is: they simply do not at all.

[1] http://www.salem-news.com/fms/pdf/2011-12_JLM-Boyle-Hill.pdf

[2] http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV-SA.html


This should get you started: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=circumcision+aids

I'm not an expert on the field, but it does seem a bit controversial.


Some of these studies are contested http://samj.org.za/index.php/samj/article/view/5384/3655

Also, the fact that HIV rates in (mostly uncircumcized) Europe are lower than (mostly circumcized) US is confusing.


The coloring on the Wikipedia picture is horrible and is essentially the equivalent of this optical illusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray_square_illusion.png


It's a typo, and their supporting link is borked.

Try million instead of billion: http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-do...


Easy win for reducing the spread of STDs (AIDS) in a place where contraception is taboo for a lot of the population.


Seems kind of crazy. How much would it cost to cure AIDS or develop affordable treatments? He is treating many of the symptoms from which people suffer in the world. However, accelerating the advancement of science and medicine might be a better goal. There's probably lots of redundant medical research for example. Take some of the money and help fund a new era of open medical research.


Pretty sure he does that too through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

Quick look at the wiki page says that among many global health issues, the Foundation hands out hundreds of millions in grants for AIDS research on condition that findings be public. It's notably also involved in the development of Malaria vaccines like RTS,S, the first anti-parasitic vaccine in history, I believe.


aids


Thanks. I Learned something new today. I had no idea that male circumcision reduces the chances of contracting HIV, but it does.

http://www.engenderhealth.org/our-work/major-projects/male-c...


What about a list of things Bill Gates did to build Microsoft, and the positive results of those achievements? It's a huge list, and it's the one that people should use to assess him morally.

For example, there is huge value in standardization: having one platform that most people use at a given time saves a ton of porting effort. Same with the backward compatibility: I know several people that still get a lot of value from DOS applications. And look at the price of software over the last 30 years, adjusted for inflation. Microsoft helped bring those prices down and make these technologies more available to people.


I have to veto that site's side scrolljacking. I can't view the main table properly on my htc desire, scrolling right switches me to a different article!


This means some major vaccine has been developed, and some major life threatening illness cured, right? Am I right?


That would be a qualified yes. As an example, the Gates Foundation has given a bit over a billion dollars to the Global Fund to fight AIDS, Malaria, and Tuberculosis. Those three diseases are among the biggest causes of (relatively) easily preventable deaths. In terms of vaccines, research is being done to develop a vaccine for malaria (which causes about 1% of global deaths), but vaccination may not prove to be the most effective means of eradicating the disease. Things like antimalarial drugs and mosquito netting may be more cost-effective, and so malaria rates have dropped dramatically despite there not being a vaccine. There is a vaccine for Tuberculosis, but it's definitely not cost-effective. AIDS is no longer a death sentence, though no vaccine exists. So in terms of Malaria and AIDS, the foundation has been reasonably successful (tuberculosis is proving to be a rather more difficult problem).

So the Gates Foundation has contributed to improvements in health, though again, the contribution is fairly limited (as one would expect when talking about a fund with only $30 billion, which is a huge amount of money for an individual but pretty much insignificant on a global scale).


Correction: no FDA approved HIV vaccine exists, yet. However, HIV vaccines do exist and are in, or will soon be in, clinical trials. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will be proven to be safe and effective, but it's not unreasonable to imagine that one of the vaccines in the pipeline will prove to be.


No donations to the victims of Microsoft Windows™?


What's more important is that he produced that much money. You can't give away what you haven't produced.


Before going too far down that road, it might also be a good idea to consider how he produced that much money. It's not entirely pretty.


What, did he blow-up his competition? Murder them? Kill their families? Did he bomb villages? Nuke cities? Did he use slavery? Did he poison people's water? Did he kick families out of the company town with pinkertons? Did he spill oil on beaches? Did he use eminent domain to steal property? Did he pay his employees horribly?

Oh you mean he vanquished other companies without using any kind of force what-so-ever? Oh he bundled! (which every company does) Oh he used market leverage! (which every company does)

Did they use the government + legislation to become successful? (unlike most large companies) No, they made fools out of the largest tech company on earth, IBM.

Netscape lost why? Because of their own incompetence, as proven by the rise of Firefox. Did Microsoft stop the rise of Java, nope, turns out it's slightly common these days. Did they kill Apple? Nope, Jobs would tell you himself that Apple was its own worst enemy. And on, and on, and on. Did they stop the rise of Android or iOS? Nope, couldn't even begin to. Music, movies? Nope, nada. How about search? Har har. Do they dominate tablets (despite practically inventing the field)? Nope. Do they dominate gaming? Nope. Intuit? You know that story. How about Linux? They would have loved to have killed it, they couldn't even touch it. How about Apache? Turns out it's doing pretty well these days. Social anything? Nope. Shopping anything? Nope. Payments anything? Nope. Databases? Nope, at best they're a modest player. It's a really long list.

So... the problem was what exactly? They had market power for a few years (maybe ten years tops), and then it faded.

There was nothing particularly terrible about how Gates produced that money.


I sincerely don't think there is a "pretty way" to make ~$60b. You're going to have to be willing to be a hard ass and take some unethical routes.


I think that's an unfounded assumption.


Name somebody who has made that much money ethically.


Warren Buffett?


Not quite. At different points in his career, Buffett had large holdings in tobacco and coal. Plus, to this day, owns a decent percentage of Coca-Cola - which I would argue is a pretty unethical investment.


I would argue that he is an outlier.


Fortunately, all that was asked for was an existence proof.


I think the onus lies the other way. Go through the list of the 10 wealthiest billionaires and explain how each has earned their wealth either ethically or unethically. Please. Maybe just the top 5 even?


You're right, but I don't think it's a ridiculous one to make.


Which is exactly why people should reflect a bit before lauding them for producing in such a way.


Exactly.

And let's not forget that Microsoft -- as a corporation -- as no responsibilities other than to make money for its shareholders and, as CEO, Bill Gates had likewise no responsibility beyond making money for his employers (i.e. shareholders). So talk about what Microsoft did or did not do is disingenuous since it is people, not corporations, that have moral or social responsibilities.

Therefore, what Bill Gates has done is extremely praiseworthy as he has spent his own personal wealth and it is not diminished by whatever Microsoft may have done to give him that wealth.


Nope. What's more important is that he spent the money on humanitarian causes, to try and better the world. He could have just bought islands for himself.


Agreed, I'm reminded of another SV billionaire, who emphatically chose not to donate to any causes until shortly before his death...and even then, only to causes which would have personally benefited him.


Not just that, he also ordered his company to kill all contributions to charity as soon as he was in power.

This trend has now been reversed since his passing.


You know nothing of which you speak.


Steve Jobs believed that Apple products were better for people than charitable giving like food, clothing, shelter, or medical care. http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-10-11/news...

"Despite accumulating an estimated $8.3 billion fortune...there is no public record of Mr. Jobs giving money to charity..." "in 1997, when Mr. Jobs returned to Apple, he closed the company’s philanthropic programs." http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/29/the-mystery-of-steve-...

"And it wasn’t until after an unflattering media report about Jobs on the subject over the summer, that Apple in September initiated a “matching gifts” program, under which donations to philanthropies made by employees are matched by the company." http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-10-06/business/35277...

This was just the first 3 results of the google search. There are hundreds of more sources to choose from.


Can you cite some evidence to the contrary? I'm tempted to say it's you who may be mis-informed.


I only pointed out that the poster has no idea of truth of the matter. I did not claim that anyone else, other than Laurene, and maybe the IRS, does.

Take note of the poster's wording, and leap of accusation. He has zero basis for his position, but he's not letting that stop him from passing judgement.

There's a word for that sort of behaviour. It isn't complimentary.


Are you implying that a museum dedicated to Jimi and owning the majority of the Northwests' sports franchises doesn't directly benefit all of humanity? Because that sir is something we will simply have to disagree on.


How does one "produce" or "make" money? I was always under the impression it basically just gets shifted around.. yeah, you first have to attract a lot of mass before you can repel it again, but that ain't making mass.


Here's a radical idea: instead of passive-aggressively determing this does "not add to the discussion" you might simply try to answer the question. After all, people (surely on here) say making money this and making money that all day long; and while needed, pointing out how dumb that is will not ever be "on-topic", so I attached the (trick) question to a comment that is sure to remain at the bottom of the discussion. If it rubs you the wrong way it's probably for a reason; good luck with that. I didn't imply Bill Gates never produced any value, any such crap is solely in your head as well.


Creating wealth is not a zero-sum game. So your phrase: "I was always under the impression it basically just gets shifted around" is wrong.

Basic economics, man.

The extension of this is that if you've accumulated great wealth (through the market, rather than through dictatorship or government) then you have also generated great wealth for your business customers or clients. But that wealth will be more spread out.


The fact that wealth is not a zero-sum game doesn't mean that your second claim follows: it is not the case that all transactions are positive-sum. Not all accumulation of wealth produces a multiplier; it's possible to make a fortune by siphoning off money with no net creation of wealth, or even by net destroying some.


Creating wealth is not a zero-sum game.

That's great; "making money" however is, seeing how there is a fixed amount in circulation.


Every bank loan is new money in, at minimum, the form of an interest charge (but more often on some or all of the principal too). The principal+interest paid to the bank is more than the principal alone, even in the simplest case. In either case, however, the bank has "made" money (but not wealth or value) and devalued (inflated) the paper currency in circulation. (You, however, are expected to make value with the capacity to transact that has been loaned to you). In the case of almost everyone else however, I agree: people are largely competing for the pre-existing numbers. But banks get to make them up, and that function is independent of the printing of currency. The actual currency is just printed as needed to facilitate trade, satisfying debts, and hopefully the creation of wealth; hopefully the wealth created is enough to counter the wealth removed, because otherwise there's lots of vacuums running around sucking up value. Oddly, most modern countries accumulate interest-bearing public debt (inflation and interest), employing banks as lenders, instead of just printing the money (currency) to spend on worthwhile projects and to remove from circulation when they're done.


Read this Paul Graham's essay: http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html


How does that work? Back at the big bang, there were 0 dollars, euros, rupees, etc. Now there are many.


Your trolling will work better under a less telegraphic username.

You can give away what you obtain, regardless of who produced it.


irony list:

- most of his donations are for universities. and when you go any university lab all they have is Macs.

- 15 Bi to his own foundation. (August 24, 1999, January 29, 2010)


I'm sure if you check out the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation [1][2], you'll be satisfied that 15 billion counts as money well spent. It's not a fund for him to spend on himself.

[1] http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundati...


> and when you go any university lab all they have is Macs.

No.


Since 1997. Prior to that Bill donated zip, zero, nada to charitable causes. I suspect that Melinda is the driving force behind this.


I suspect Bill is the type of person to focus intensely on one thing at a time. Prior to 1997 his focus was Microsoft. After that, he rode its success into his next endeavor, which is charity.


You should read this article from 1996 - where Bill Gates is talking about his relationship with Warren Buffet. The quote below is pretty clear in that charity had always been his ultimate goal.

"Warren and I share certain values. We both feel lucky that we were born into an era in which our skills have turned out to be so remunerative. Had we been born at a different time, our skills might not have had much value. Since we don't plan on spending much of what we have accumulated, we can make sure our wealth benefits society. In a sense, we're both working for charity. In any case, our heirs will get only a small portion of what we accumulate, because we both believe that passing on huge wealth to children isn't in their or society's interest. Warren likes to say that he wants to give his children enough money for them to do anything but not enough for them to do nothing. I thought about this before I met Warren, and hearing him articulate it crystallized my feelings."

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1996/...


OR he was investing his money in the area that he knew best and that would have the best profit he knew how to achieve so he could donate _more_ later.

Exponential growth is king.

If he had donated all he had in 1997 he wouldn't have even come close to what he's donated today.




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