Ask HN: Why don't we all take care of ourselves?

[devinc_heyo]

Does anyone else observe really high variance on how dedicated peers are to their health?

I work at a very fast growing startup and we all aim to work super hard and efficiently.

If we look at the team, approx. ~50% are working out constantly, eating clean, meditating, etc. But then the rest are often dragging themselves as if they couldn't care less about where their long term health is going.

As an anecdote, one founder must be like 10% body fat, does marathons, meditates constantly and probably doesn't ever sleep less than 8 hours. At the same time, the other founder has admitted not making it to the gym for years now, is always sleeping less than 6 hours, and isn't at all on top of eating right.

Do we ever really gain in productivity by sacrificing these things? I've found myself plenty of times skipping the gym because I feel I "must" get a particular PR out or make sure a project hits some arbitrarily-dated timeline.

I've always imagined that at a certain point when you've "made it" that this becomes a healthier balance. But, from what I've seen in peers a few steps ahead of me, it looks like as success grows this only gets harder.

What about you? What's your relationship with your health/wellness/choose-your-own-term and how has it evolved with your career?

[techorange]

I think there’s a lot of variance in essentially people’s constitution. Marc Andreesen used to say the ideal lifestyle was like 12 hours of coffee followed by 6 hours of alcohol daily. That would kill me.

But for the first I dunno 25 years of my life, I didn’t workout, smoked, drank 2 liter mountain dews and ate like crap, and I felt and looked great. I basically just kept doing that until I couldn’t, and I think some people that goes on for longer than others.

One of the happiest people I knew was a total hedonist, who dranked, ate and smoked himself to a heart attack in his fifties. And he had much more energy than me, a guy who ran marathons. He used to run circles around me at work(a physical job, catering) and would often ask why I worked out for energy/strength. He didn’t understand the point.

[p_ing]

Are you in these people's homes when they go home from work to see what the environment is like? Are you looking through their pill bottles to see what medications they're on?

Why would you assume everyone is going to do Gattaca-style exercise daily, have the same mental fortitude, etc.?

Maybe Jane or John is just completely wiped out by work and then goes home to their 10 kids and spouse who drain them further.

Yes, variance is the spice of life. If everyone lived the same, we'd be ants.

[devinc_heyo → p_ing]

Totally totally agree. It's completely valid that many folks have much more challenging home lives that demand so much energy.

I wonder though if there's a path where sacrificing some amount of time at work could eek out net-positive output over the right timeline.

It's just hard not to feel for seeing folks stuck in the spiral of trying to manage so much. And I just wonder whether -- if, say, their employer gave them the space to do so -- if spending just some time on getting "healthier" could help.

Sitting here on a keyboard in abstract though I'm obviously oversimplifying and can't deny at all how hard things are for folks balancing both a demanding work and home situation.

[giantg2 → devinc_heyo]

"if, say, their employer gave them the space to do so -- if spending just some time on getting "healthier" could help."

Maybe for a few, but most home issues aren't easily or quickly solved. Some really can't be (kids are a lifelong commitment whether you can handle it or not).

[p_ing → devinc_heyo]

You could start by pushing for a 32 hour work week with your Congress Critters with heavy OT penalties for employers, even if the employee is salaried.

[giantg2 → p_ing]

"Are you in these people's homes when they go home from work to see what the environment is like?"

Yeah, my first thought was one of them sounds like they're married with kids.

[giantg2]

I feel like what's the point of trying to live a longer healthier life when I'm treated like garbage at work and nothing ever gets better. I'll eat my burger topped with oil disfuised as cheese and continue to live my mostly sedentary life until I find some peace (likely in death).

[speedgoose → giantg2]

If you take care of yourself, you will improve and feel better. Physically at least.

[runjake]

At least from a traditional American viewpoint, there’s a lot of shame in putting yourself first for work and family.

It took me a long time to realize that taking care of myself is crucial to being able to take care of others effectively.

Is it the same for any other western cultures?

[unfixed → runjake]

Southern europe, that shame may happen if you dont prioritize family, but it doesn't happen with work.

In fact I'm prone to belive that informing others that you exercise/meditate/others instantly increment the perceived "value" and successfullness. Just like dressing good, but with actual health improvements.

[dgunay]

Lots of reasons I've seen. Some have injuries that aren't obvious. Some have no fun or satisfying outlet for physical activity. Some grew up socialized by their family and friends to eat poorly. Some are already in a deep rut mentally/physically and that's a self perpetuating condition. Some have too many responsibilities to their job and/or their loved ones. Some are addicted to their work.

I have been a few of these things at various points in my life. I am healthier now but I will not judge anyone for not being in great shape.

[not_your_vase]

Most of my life I have been fat, and didn't care about my diet - I ate what I felt like. I also smoked heavily more than half of my life, and I'm way too familiar with bierbottles too from a previous life.

About 6 or 7 years ago I stopped smoking, and I couldn't find any more excuses, and got myself a gym membership. After being scared to actually go to the gym for about 3 more months, once I took a deep breath, and made my first visit.

After 15 minutes I almost died, I was so exhausted. I was very disappointed, and went to the burger king next door. I paid for my order, and when I got it, I got disgusted by myself. I threw it to the trash without touching it, and next day I went back to the gym.

I continued doing so for months, until I eventually got a 4-pack (I never got to a 6-pack, grrr).

And at this point an old colleague sent me an email, with a job offer, out of the blue.

The job was very good - the guy knew that I would love it, and I did, too much actually. I pulled 16 hours long workdays (which I enjoyed, mentally), started to eat crap again, and in a year I couldn't button my shirts.

At this point I quit - I felt that my physical health was deteriorating, my body was begging to stop. It took over a year to get back in form again. My job is worse than it was, but I couldn't control myself when I was having way too much fun.

[devinc_heyo → not_your_vase]

Tons of respect for making the right call - that's hard to do, but you know you'll never regret it in the long run.

Do you think those 16 hours would've really been more productive than if the environment/culture allowed for, say, 15 hours and you'd have 1 hour more for just "life". Or even as far as 12.

Curious whether it really becomes net positive productivity. I feel like it really doesn't work to push past a certain point so I'm wondering more and more why the hell do we all do it so often haha?

[not_your_vase → devinc_heyo]

Oh, I wasn't forced to work 16 hours. It wasn't crunch-time, or anything. The company and the team was reasonably supportive about work-life balance.

But the project I was working on was very interesting, my tasks were also pretty interesting, the team was mostly assembled of competent people, and I enjoyed every second I spent on the project - I actually tried to spend as much time on it as I could. Was almost like an addiction... I just kind of neglected many other things.

[devinc_heyo → not_your_vase]

Woah that's funny I feel like your putting to words something I've felt many times haha. The addiction/interest + neglect of other stuff has happened to me more times than I care to admit.

Funny world.

[marshughes]

I've noticed this huge variance too. From my experience, sacrificing health might bring some short - term progress in work, but in the long run, it's a big loss. For example, I once stayed up late and ate takeout for weeks to rush a project. The project was completed on time, but then my body broke down. I had to take sick leave, and my work efficiency plummeted. It took a long time to recover. The founder with 10% body fat might have found inspiration for efficient work in exercise and meditation. While the other one may need to re - evaluate the balance between health and work. Have you ever tried to find an easy - to - follow healthy habit during your busy work, like taking a walk during lunch break?

[Trasmatta]

Taking care of yourself is hard, especially if your mental health is struggling.

Of course, not taking care of yourself is a negative feedback loop, because it makes you more depressed which makes it harder to take care of yourself which...

[devinc_heyo → Trasmatta]

100%

Have you ever witnessed someone come out of this loop?

[codingdave → devinc_heyo]

While working overly hard in a startup? No.

While stepping back from work to make their own life a priority. Absolutely, yes.

[devinc_heyo → codingdave]

Yeah that resonates.

It just feels inefficient though to me a bit. There's been plenty of times in my life where I've been in "grind" mode and sleeping less, eating poorly, not working out, etc. in order to be "more productive".

But in all cases, looking back, I feel like I was really just spinning my wheels. Like if I were to take those months here and there and work 1 hour less each day to just eat a salad, take a walk, sleep more -- I feel like I'd probably have made better contributions to our goals.

Hard to know since it's all a bit of a retrospective exercise.

[Trasmatta → devinc_heyo]

For sure, it's often a cycle though

[t-3]

> the rest are often dragging themselves as if they couldn't care less about where their long term health is going.

You answered your own question. It's usually not about maximizing productivity or anything else, it's just not caring or not thinking about their future health. We all have different priorities.

[Gooblebrai]

Does one of the founders comes from a wealthy background while the other doesn't?

Sometimes, knowing that you have a cushion helps to take things in a more relaxed way, which can lead to focusing on health, food, etc.

Maybe the unhealthy founder is risking more with the startup and that creates stress.

[idontwantthis]

Our behaviors wear grooves in our minds that make it easier to follow and harder to change. Care begets care, neglect begets neglect, and changing is difficult and must come from within.

[devinc_heyo → idontwantthis]

Where does that change come from you think?

[idontwantthis → devinc_heyo]

It has to come from within. A person has to decide to change. That realization can come from a shock or external motivation but that wears off pretty quickly and people can always rationalize things. I’ve lost 8 kgs since september and have gone from over weight to normal weight. I’ve tried that many times over the past several years without any success. I honestly don’t know why I stuck with it this time. I did develop a personal strategy that helped, but it takes determination more than anything.