Am I the only one out there that _doesn't_ think single-page apps are the future? It reminds me of the mid-2000s, "AJAX all the things!"
I might be wrong about it, just not on this bandwagon at all. I still find the true power in the internet is hypertext, and single page apps seem to break it. Of course, I also prefer articles over video and not having a firehose of information thrown at me. Can someone point me to a way to use Node that actually makes sense for something that doesn't have to be near-real-time?
Client side apps are strangely messy, and make it impossible for search engines to index your site. This is exactly why Twitter is largely walking away from their client-side web site.
There is a whole class of web applications where it does not even make sense for search engines to index your site: todo lists, real-time chat, finance, and so on. So yeah, if you think it is important for your app to export content, then by all means don't build a single-page app.
> Am I the only one out there that _doesn't_ think single-page apps are the future? It reminds me of the mid-2000s, "AJAX all the things!"
I absolutely agree with you. In my opinion the mid-2000s AJAX craze has died down into "AJAX where it's useful, otherwise do whatever." I expect the single page app idea will do the same.
I think the end result will be dedicated pages as the "homepage" of some topic that give full access to that thing and partial access to related concepts. That preserves some of the "I just want to fiddle with the kerblob, don't make me navigate away from what I'm doing" idea without throwing out the hypertext/linking/other beauties that make the internet great.
You seem to mix webpages, which almost never need to be single paged, except if they a book or something and webapps where the concept of a page doesn't make sense.
So no, we will properly never see that many blogs that are single paged, but it makes sense for your bank application to be single paged.
I completely understand that, and agree, but for the 99% of websites that are somewhere in-between a "page" and an "app", this sort of punditry is not really helpful. Most websites are interactive in some way, and also benefit from search engine indexing and linkability. Blogs like these seem to think all apps are true apps (DO something on the web), and other think they are pages (CONSUME something on the web. The truth is that most web applications are a hybrid; you will DO something that persists so others can consume it.
the problem is that one page apps are great for delivering what 10 years ago would have been a stand alone desktop app. You're just now delivering it via http.
But no one really qualifies their fanaticism. sure node.js is great! clearly we should use it for our brochure-ware sites too!
> Can someone point me to a way to use Node that actually makes sense for something that doesn't have to be near-real-time?
I'd like to see a CMS+Framework like Drupal built in node. Serving an entire dynamic site (say, a corporate site with customer portal) in node could be extremely sweet.
Edit to point out: just because it's in node doesn't mean it's a single-page, ajaxy app. It's obviously the killer application for now, but as time goes on and we link together more and more with external APIs (that might not answer you right away), the async model will make more sense for even a mid-level webapp or customer portal IMO.
I'm surprised no one considers that single page apps can still work without breaking hypertext. HTML5 history lets you do that and fall back to full pages. Just look at what GitHub does in their repo view.
I started a side projects months ago and the first question I agonized over was: 'web app' or 'api app'.
We went through all the screen mock ups several times before any code was laid down. First thing I knew was it was going to be - for me - a lot quicker to just stick with Rails over node. I played with node before and didn't see my project 'needing' it.
I thought a lot about using Spine. Still hadn't gotten over the Backbone hump, so that was out. And in the end, I just decided that for prototyping and just getting something ready, I needed to stick with the easy and most productive route and just make it a page to page web app. Most of the world still finds this approach acceptable and I was just trying to not get sucked into the technology vortex. 'Real artists ship' I kept telling myself. I did end up using MooTools which seems so old school now, but it totally works fine and I prefer it over jQuery. I felt like a sorta ajax Rails app here and there would be good enough for what I needed to do.
Over the past 8 months, I found pockets of time here and there to put down some code, in spite of a newborn and contracting at a few different startups. I haven't regretted using any of the tech I used and I've been mostly focused on just delivering functionality and getting something ready for people to use. Real artists ship.
Will my Rails app handle 100s of requests a second? Probably not. But, I'm going to love having that problem. It will mean that people will actually be using the app and then I can start thinking about how to scale it up/out.
The shop I'm working with now has a bunch of young kids that are all about node. I think it's great and they even took an old Rails app and rewrote it in node because no one there knew Rails. Ok, dunno if I woulda done that, but it all boils down to - I think - what people are comfortable with.
I'm not that comfortable with node yet. I did see the whole bubbling up error thing and sorta spaghetti code possibilities when i was using it. Like some other posters have said, there are MVC frameworks out there that can alleviate or solve these issues. But at this point I just feel like most apps - most users - will not need or appreciate realtime. I've seen pretty pictures and buttons and ui that have put the sparkle in more people's eyes than if ajax was being used and thusly, realtime.
Is everything going that way (to realtime)? Absolutely. Are we there yet? No way. But I definitely see the writing on wall for Rails as a page to page framework. Maybe they'll come up with something - I've already seen evented php frameworks, so no reason to think this will not get sucked in to Rails somehow. And I've been using Rails as an api platform for years already, so the whole api discussion doesn't surprise me. But for now, I think there's still plenty of life left in Rails to make apps and companies on.
You are certainly not the only one, and as you point out this is nothing new. Web development is incredibly fad-driven, and the vast majority of web developers can't even tell you why they are jumping from fad to fad.
If you are writing a mail client, or chat app or something, then a single page javascript app makes sense. But I don't think those apps are the majority now, and I don't think they will become the majority any time soon.
I'll stop being mischievousness, but basically the single page app replaces the desktop app of the past, this means:
- We build for the browser not the OS, no dependency in an organisation on windows, linux etc, it will even work on your ipad and mobile. This simplifies desktop support.
- server can easily publish updates frequently, very agile and responsive to change
- Takes advantage of the cloud and collaboration, your web app now has an API (your desktop app didn't!) so you can share data, link to other services and other web apps. Think of google docs, why would you create a word document and email it around or save on a share when you can share it in a web app and even have multiple people edit the document at the same time!
I believe the browser is replacing the OS, not surprisingly it doesn't do a very good job and it's a pain to work with but the end result is so much better for your users.
lastly I don't understand that suggestion ajax was a fad from mid 2000's ?? it's used everywhere and to mostly :) good effect !
> basically the single page app replaces the desktop app of the past
Yes, and I am saying this is shortsighted. We went from silos of information and data on a single computer and evolved into creating information in the public internet. Why go backwards? Outside of a small niche or two is there really a need for desktop apps hosted online? If they don't interact with the larger web, then just leave them on the desktop.
> - Takes advantage of the cloud and collaboration
I find this particularly ironic, since single-page apps actually break the standard of collaboration that has been around since the birth of the internet. I should be able to refer someone to a specific piece of information, they should be able to share it to others. And I'm not talking about hashbangs, just good old HTTP links.
> I believe the browser is replacing the OS
I don't. Browsers can't exist without an OS, for one. We're always going to need an OS of some fashion, and it's always going to have opinions and lock us in to certain paradigms. And that's actually a GOOD thing. I sure hope this misguided fad of the OS-less world will fade soon.
I might be wrong about it, just not on this bandwagon at all. I still find the true power in the internet is hypertext, and single page apps seem to break it. Of course, I also prefer articles over video and not having a firehose of information thrown at me. Can someone point me to a way to use Node that actually makes sense for something that doesn't have to be near-real-time?