Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Can eating less beef and dairy help save the Colorado River? (npr.org)
14 points by rntn 59 days ago | hide | past | favorite | 10 comments



Well, NPR has one view. I posit another, substantial amounts of these crops are exported to water/land poor regions (Asia / ME). I view it more akin to exporting water than hay.

NPR:” But for much of the year, the region’s primary crops are alfalfa and other hay crops, which have one primary purpose: feeding beef and dairy cows in the U.S. and around the world”

1: amounts doubled from 2007 to 2017. ”US is the lead exporter, and exports are now greater than the equivalent of 17% of the alfalfa and 41% of the grass hays produced in the 7 western US states. “

Per this USDA report (2) looks like numbers peaked 2021-2022, good overview of who’s buying here.

Our hay exports have risen 2193% over 10 years to Saudi Arabia (3)

And not exactly related to my argument, but it’s not far off, here’s a fun number: exports of beef to China has gone up over the last 10 years by 593949% (4). Obviously cherry picked for the large number, but dannnggg.

If I were doing more research I’d be including soybeans and corn as well.

I’ll admit my views are in part due to living in AZ and driving through wonderful desert areas littered with alfalfa fields and other water intensive crops. Never made sense. (That and lawns, having a rock front yard was great. Oh and the multitude of world class golf courses.) At the time I was told a lot of those fields were owned by Saudis who exported it.

(1) https://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=2920...

(2)https://hayandforage.com/article-permalink-4700.html

(3)https://fas.usda.gov/regions/saudi-arabia

(4)https://fas.usda.gov/regions/china


The Center for Investigative Reporting dug deep (and yet in many ways barely scratched the surface) into this large scale resource redirection in a 2022 documentary The Grab

Well worth the watch.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21820452/

https://revealnews.org/the-grab/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXyy_xMk_YE


Really great info, thank you.

I'll also add that NPR's argument is "this water is used to grow crops which feed beef/dairy, therefore if we reduce beef/dairy cows, these crops and the corresponding water will be reduced proportionately".

Their conclusion is not grounded in microeconomic logic. If the demand for alfalfa and hay decrease, that will affect only the marginal farmer/seller, not all alfalfa/hay farmers/sellers equally. In other words, the most expensive seller of cattle feed in the market may no longer have a buyer, but other less expensive sellers will be totally unaffected.

Imperial Valley farmers are likely not the the marginal seller in the cattle feed market (ie the most expensive sellers who still have buyers), so this argument that reducing beef/dairy consumption is flawed.


Let's stop expanding cities that were built in the middle of the desert first.


You can recycle residential water as Vegas does, but you can't with irrigation since it picks up salinity from the land.


1 year of no flying ==10 years of beef. So if you dont flx for 10 years ,worryfree meat for life.


Betteridge's law of headlines: if a headline is framed as a question, the answer is usually "no".


I was curious to see:

INSKEEP: OK, so now the bottom line. After doing all this reporting, did you conclude that one less hamburger a week really could save the Colorado River?

STONE: Honestly, Steve, it's really hard to say. The food system is so complicated, and it's not just beef. Actually, yogurt and cheese is what's driving more hay to be grown in the Colorado River basin. But it is true that if we shift our diets just a little, that can have a long-term impact.


From reading the article it's pretty clear that diet changes can help so it's definitely not just "no" here


You read what you wanted to read. The article was not clear on that.




Consider applying for YC's W25 batch! Applications are open till Nov 12.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: