I think linux became much better in recent years not at least due to things moving into web. Ofc there is a ton of specialized windows only software still, but it became much less relevant for ordinary people.
Just remember all the people struggling with open office (not relevant because of google docs and alike) and video/audio codecs (Spotify, Netflix etc). In general the amount of desktop apps needed to be productive has reduced.
The desktop is just good enough even though App Store apps are quite terrible in both Ubuntu and fedora in my experience.
On the other hand with pipewire we can finally have working Bluetooth headphones and after years of endless shitshow simple things like screen sharing are working again
Just remember all the people struggling with open office (not relevant because of google docs and alike) and video/audio codecs (Spotify, Netflix etc).
You can call me an old curmudgeon if you like, but I just don't trust the Cloud for storage. (Ever since a badly configured DropBox instance removed around a gigabyte of files.) So I insist on keeping all my Documents at home on my main system, along with all of my 'write once, keep forever' files.
In my early days, I tried to maintain the ability to use MS Word documents as they were all that was circulated in the 90s and early naughties. That included the use of WABI and other kludges. But with the later advent of ubiquitous .PDF files, that pressure for MS Office compatibility has disappeared. Consequently, I find I need only Libre Office Calc to do my spreadsheets, and Libre Office Writer to do my text word-processing. They can do everything I need.
When you say "App Store apps", are you talking about the packages managed by package managers like Synaptic which is used on Ubuntu/Debian/Mint/etc. ?
I recently bought a windows laptop for the primary reason that I wanted a full version of Excel, not libreoffice, and not 365.
But yea, aside from the fact that it's a lot newer hardware than my Slackware 15.0 desktop, there's really not much in the way of anything it can do that makes me go "wow, this is what I was missing out on."
Some games that don't play nice with lutris are still around, but honestly, I almost have more fun fighting to get games to run than I do actually playing them anyway.
- KDE crashing so many times in a few hours that I had to switch to GNOME
- Steam randomly crashing and refusing to launch games
- Kernel seems to want to update every 10 days and somehow the default /boot partition isn’t big enough so every time it tries to install something apt breaks and reports that it’s out of space
- USB audio has random cracks and pops, this is certainly related to drivers because it gets worse whenever a graphics-intensive application like a game is being run. I spent a few hours googling error messages from dmesg and then gave up and bought an adapter for the 3.5mm jack
- Wanted to change a theme but first I had to install GNOME Tweak Tool for no reason
- still haven’t figured out how to have a system tray which many apps like Discord, Steam, Spotify, caffeinate need to run
- caffeinate doesn’t work, computer still sleeps, no idea why as the same program has worked fine on every computer I’ve used for 10 years
- Brave browser doesn’t seem to understand the default KDE theme as the window buttons are broken. Switching to GNOME fixed the problem
- Firefox doesn’t respect the system theme so every other app is in Dark Mode and Firefox is bright white
- I ran an installer script for a program and it somehow made two menu entries and one doesn’t work so when I search for it in the menu I have to guess which one to click
- went to install program A but there’s only a Flatpak available and I don’t want yet another package manager on my computer
Well if you are clueless and not ready to learn a few things than Linux might be not as fun as it can be.
> Wanted to change a theme but first I had to install GNOME Tweak Tool for no reason
Windows does not even offer themes, why would you need a theme, they pick a great looking theme for their defaults for a reason, because Linux DE first impression and screenshots sell distros. Nothing wrong with Ubuntu's default no need to change it, crying about installing a tool that WORKS that takes you 5 seconds is no argument.
> still haven’t figured out how to have a system tray which many apps like Discord, Steam, Spotify, caffeinate need to run
Well, maybe take 10 second search? You need a Gnome extension for old style stray. Do these apps really "Need" tray icons to run? I think you just made that up. Ubuntu comes with "Ubuntu App Indicators" BY DEFAULT! That show the legacy tray icons. You claim you did an "Ubuntu" install, then you speak of KDE and DE switching. So, did you install Kubuntu? You are doing it wrong TM if you install Gnome on Kubuntu or KDE on Ubuntu. I have "Tray Icons Reloaded" running because I need that for my Gnome extension setup, works perfectly fine.
Refusing Flatpaks is you just adding an arbitrary limitation on yourself so you can complain about it. I personally run Ubuntu, and it comes with Snaps, and I never ever came across any app I needed that did not have a deb or a Snap. I would prefer Flatpak if I had to chose, but because Ubuntu has Snap integrated by default, I just use that until I really need Flatpak.
If you did not even had legacy tray icons, you probably installed just Gnome on Kubuntu with the wrong package and did not even try to install `ubuntu-desktop` or whatever the metapackage is called that has all the default stuff. So you probably did a double "Doing it Wrong" TM. 15 years and still clueless, of course you hate everything.
Why are you babyraging like a petulant child because someone said something slightly mean about your favorite toy? Do you ever take a step back and wonder how you got here? It doesn’t even affect you if my computer doesn’t work. How do you function in society with this little control of yourself?
You are using it on the server, and/or you refuse to learn some basics. Go back to whatever shitty OS you are really using if you think Linux DE are broken or "not even worth" looking into. Linux DEs offer more than any other OS, specifically Gnome and KDE the ones you claim people should avoid. And they are perfectly stable and usable. But if you use them for 50 years and refuse to do a 2-minute search for something that is not the way YOU want to be out of the box, then I guess ALL DEs are broken and not worth looking into from your perspective.
It never fails to amaze me how much the average Linux fanboy hates themselves and other users. I get that 99% of the Linux crowd are normal people but boy do those 1% make themselves known
I noticed a lot of these are KDE related. Am I right in presupposing that you installed KDE on top of the regular GNOME Ubuntu? If so, you might have a bit more luck with Kubuntu.
If not, bummer to hear you've had so many problems.
No I installed Kubuntu as KDE is my preferred environment but it was underwhelming. A friend of mine recommended KDE Neon saying it was much more stable, so I’m currently trying to decide if it’s worth a reinstall
I think the problem with Linux desktop can be perfectly illustrated by how you create a shortcut.
On Windows, you right click the desktop, click new -> shortcut. A window appears with a paragraph explaining what you're doing and a single field to select the filepath. There's a button that reads "next." You click it to go to the second window, in which another paragraph tells you to pick a name for the shortcut. There's only one field, here, too. The next button became a finish button. This whole process just to fill 2 fields: filepath and name.
I'll take the Linux method any day -- it lets me put custom commands, including command line args. Could I just write a script and point my shortcut to that instead? Sure.
At the end of the day, making things idiot proof can be how some software developers go -- personally I can't stand it when it's done, however, as it makes actually accessing configuration options more bothersome than it frankly needs to be. Personally I can't stand MacOS, Windows is a time waster with a lot of how it does things, and most of the mainstream linux distros in the past few years (especially since the advent of systemd) have been moving scarily in the same direction.
Thank Bob for Slackware -- if Pat ever gives it up it may need to be a move to BSD for me.
Ehm... GNU/Linux is "great" compared to other OSes because it run on modern hw, offer NixOS/Guix System declarative approach because in the 2024 installing a system like 1980 it's not a wise choice, and it feature enough software, mostly FLOSS, to do any normally needed tasks.
Unfortunately most of the world have failed to evolve, so it's still rare to have declarative systems, Emacs/EXWM style desktop instead of ridiculous floating windows and icons model and so on.
Yes, but while I can create a custom NixOS ISO that auto-install on my desktop my final production desktop I can't do the same with OSX or Windows, I can craft a big infra with very expensive proprietary software, largely overkill and still my system would be a hybrid. *BSD allow custom ISO, so most GNU/Linux distros but they are FAR more complex than a simple file and nix-build '<nixpkgs/nixos>' -A config.system.build.isoImage -I nixos-config=iso.nix to create the image.
I've used a discrete set of OS, back than also Irix (an old O₂ given to me as a teenager), Solaris (9, OpenSolaris SXDE, SXCE and OpenIndiana), I've tried Nexenta (IllumOS based on Debian userland), Milax, Belenix, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, various GNU/Linux and Windows. NONE of them have the simplicity of declarative OSes like NixOS/Guix System and I insist, -OS/-System because just the package manager it's not enough.
I manage infra with Ansible, Fog, Saltstack, have used cfengine and puppet in the past. None of them can compete.
The reality is a terrible sorry state of things. NixOS/Guix System are the sole LESS ugly for the modern time then the rest, like zfs for the storage confronted with anything else, hammer (DragonFly) included.
What's still weird for me is Bluetooth audio hardware. After hours of working perfectly it gets choppy or jittery or it sounds like a second layer of hiss where intensity follows the volume of the audio. It's either restart the audio stack or the OS. I can't find a cause.
Also on my last Fedora install on an HP EliteBook some random PC speaker alarm would sound and I couldn't for the life of me find the perp.
Yes, Apple's walled garden is pedantic as hell, but the main UI stuff just works.
Slackware 15 was the jump from basically nonexistent bluetooth support unless you really put it in yourself, to right out of the box everything that I've tried so far working just fine.
I was getting really close to looking for an alternative for a bit over it as I got more and more bluetooth accessories, but am quite pleased that things finally caught up.
Can't speak to Fedora, but am surprised that it may be behind Slackware, if only because Slackware is predominantly a one man project...
Macs have their own set of wireless issues. If you add a Logitech radio receiver or high i/o usb device like a cardreader or docking station, bluetooth and WiFi connections can become unstable.
I have been using ubuntu as my main OS since 2018. Like anything it takes some time to get used to it. Once you get your particular setup dialed in, it just works.
I enjoy the consistency of being in linux for all my work. For anything that ubuntu cannot do - I have a windows VM, and a Mac VM - although I rarely start the mac VM these days.
All the negative experiences here on Linux ignore all the negative experiences other users have on Mac and Windows. "Every OS sucks" is still relevant.
Going with Mac or Windows is like hiring McKinsey: even though they suck, no one will get mad at you for picking the same choice everyone else picks. It's the devil you know, and there are mainstream norms and resources to deal with it. Desktop Linux failures are more salient because you're sticking your neck out for using desktop Linux.
All the postivie experiences here on Linux ignore all the positive experiences other users have on Mac and Windows. "Every OS works" is still relevant.
Do people not just use linux by default nowadays? I had to install Windows for AI stuff recently and it was such pain, literally took me the whole day for the "just works" drivers to actually work. That would have never happened on linux. Who puts up with that still, if its not your only alternative to run some specific program? Also Nautiuls (default file manager) sucks so bad, even the windows one is better, other than that Ubuntu is fine. Mint is better "just works distro" thought.
The default Ubuntu Gnome based desktop offends me. It's like the designers thought MacOS was far too confusing and customizable, so they didn't expose more options than would confuse a toddler. This wouldn't bother me if their design choices hadn't been so hostile.
It's little things. The thing that bothers me every day is the 1px window borders which I fight to be able to grab with my high dpi laser mouse on a perfect tracking surface. 1px borders also means when I place windows side by side I can't help but grab the wrong window when adjusting them, so I have to deliberately leave a little gap between them, and the gap width is never perfectly consistent.
Yeah it's linux, so I could load up any number of alternate desktop environments or tiling WMs, but I'd much rather mess around with my code than sink time into customizing my GUI. I'm also hesitant to go nuts customizing my work linux box as there's value in having a similar setup to others you're working with.
Come back in a few months. The Linux DE is broken beyond repair. If it’s from the big names (KDE, the one with the foot logo, the mouse one, etc) or is dependent on them, it’s not worth even looking into it.
Baseless hate with no evidence. Linux DE's are perfectly working and great Gnome 3 has tons of extensions to tune it to your needs if you do not like the Ubuntu default. KDE can be a bit buggy if you run cutting edge (what a surprise), better not run a rolling release like SUSE Tumbleweed with it.
I run Linux DEs for about 10 years now, always came back to Ubuntu. KDE offers a lot of stuff that I personally do not need.
Running Gnome 3 with Dash To Panel, taskbar on top and Tiling Assistant that give a Win 10 like helper to split windows.
Previously used Material Shell, awesome but buggy. The creator works on a new thing in Rust, it will be awesome!
Just remember all the people struggling with open office (not relevant because of google docs and alike) and video/audio codecs (Spotify, Netflix etc). In general the amount of desktop apps needed to be productive has reduced.
The desktop is just good enough even though App Store apps are quite terrible in both Ubuntu and fedora in my experience.
On the other hand with pipewire we can finally have working Bluetooth headphones and after years of endless shitshow simple things like screen sharing are working again