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In defense of the ambiguity of digital toggles, I’d like to add that this is unsolved on most, if not all, physical light switches in homes and offices.

Despite having existed for more than 50 years and most people are using multiple toggles a day with its labels, most people are unaware of the meaning of power symbol (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol)




Isn't that a feature and not a bug for light switches?

It's not uncommon to have multiple light switches control a single light socket - switching any of them changes the state of the light, therefore you cannot consistently say state-x = light on, state-y = light-off.


Because language works through association and analogy, you don't actually need to know the etymology of a word or symbol to use or understand it.

Any English speaker can understand perfectly well the words manual, manufacture and manicure without ever reflecting on the fact that "manus" in latin means "hand".

We clearly haven't needed to rename these words "handual", "handufacture" and "handicure" for these concepts to be understood by people who aren't fluent in Latin.

In much the same way, even a person who has never seen a floppy disk will associate its likeness with the action of saving if it appears next to enough save buttons.


> "We clearly haven't needed to rename these words "handual", "handufacture" and "handicure" for these concepts to be understood by people who aren't fluent in Latin."

"manual" is "by-hand".

"hand-made" is the literal meaning of "manufacture" (make by hand), if not the industrial meaning used today. From Old English hand-wrought, apparently: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=handmade


> you don't actually need to know the etymology of a word or symbol to use or understand it.

Etymology, etc. helps to understand what other people mean and have meant by the word, and what others will understand.


No, it doesn't?


Well, in this case, if one person says it does, and another doesn't see that it does, shouldn't the latter conclude they are likely missing something?

If I say 'this truck hauls 2 tons up Mount Rainier' and evidently I do that, and you don't think so, wouldn't the rational conclusion be that the truck does it and you were unaware?

I and many others, for centuries, have used etymology to understand meaning and history. Don't tell me it doesn't work - I do it, just like driving that truck. You can't do everything, we all miss out on most things, but you are missing out! :)


> in this case, if one person says it does, and another doesn't see that it does, shouldn't the latter conclude they are likely missing something?

In this case, we already have all the facts, so there's no reason to talk about what's likely.

Etymology is not informative as to meaning, and therefore cannot help anyone learn how a word is currently used. You are advocating for the Etymological Fallacy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy ), but the name of the position you're taking should be a hint about whether it's actually a valid viewpoint.


While the NEC does not specify light switch toggle orientation, there seems to be a general convention among electricians and installers for the toggle switch to be positioned up for "on" and down for "off."


Yes, until you throw a second switch in the same circuit. Then you’ll never know.


In the United States at least. I spent a few years in Australia and it was universally the opposite!


Really? For me this always made intuitive sense reading it as one and zero, where zero would be off.


It always seemed backwards to me, since a circle should represent a closed circuit


An open circuit would then be a C not a |


Those wouldn't be easily distinguishable though.


this is backwards from the perspective of digital logic circuits

physical light switches toggle between closed-circuit and open-circuit, not high and low voltage levels. 'on', where current can flow, is a closed circuit; 'off' is an open circuit

in digital logic, when there is a correspondence between closed/open and high/low, the correspondence is virtually always that closed is low and high is open. for example: ttl inputs always treat open-circuit as high; the can bus and i²c bus "recessive" states (when nobody is transmitting) are high; avrs have optional pullup resistors on their gpios but no optional pulldowns, so if you want to connect a pushbutton or toggle switch to a gpio, you have to connect it between the pin and ground, not between the pin and vcc; 8051s' 'quasi-bidirectional' i/o ports similarly feature a weak pullup and a strong pulldown, so that, again, an open circuit is a logic high level

(and normally high is 1, low is 0, though sometimes this convention is also violated)

the only exception i know of is that 60-milliamp and 20-milliamp digital current loop interfaces, as used on teletypes, treat a closed circuit (current flowing) as a logic 1 ('mark'), and an open circuit (no current flowing) as a logic 0 ('space')

incidentally, 'closed circuit' and 'open circuit' are also confusing. a closed circuit is 'closed' in the sense that a plane curve is 'closed' if it divides the plane into an inside and an outside region. on a closed curve, you can walk around the whole circuit and return to your starting point without turning around, which is in some sense what the electrical current is doing. but of course actual electrical circuits exist in three-dimensional space, where a 'closed' curve does not divide space into an inside and an outside region, because you need a surface for that. and in all other contexts, something that is 'closed' is something that does not permit flow: a closed barn door, a closed window, a closed valve, etc. nevertheless, it is far too late to eliminate this two-dimensional flatland thinking from our vocabulary


Oh, of course that must be what closed circuit meant.

For some reason I just thought “looks like the switches are little doors, like in a floor plan, and they are all closed now” and I never examined it.


happy to help :)


Most people haven't even heard of binary.


Silicate chemistry is second nature to us geochemists, so it's easy to forget that the average person probably only knows the formulas for olivine and one or two feldspars.

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2501:_Average_Fam...

See also this comment ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39344935 ) "it's pretty obvious" that computers use the opposite symbol than the name says.


Yes indeed. I need to explain to IT people that most users don't even understand hierarchical folder structures; many don't understand folders. They don't believe me.

[Edit: deleted possibly rude paragraph]


You probably also work in IT and might even now what binary is not to mention what boolean means.


fair point


> In defense of the ambiguity of digital toggles, I’d like to add that this is unsolved on most, if not all, physical light switches in homes and offices.

What? This has been solved for physical light switches since before physical light switches existed.

If the light is on, the switch is set to "light on". If the light is off, the switch is set to "light off".


People are aware.




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