Well, one comment at the root was flagged and the thread was deleted, so hopefully I can reply to you here, plus you were starting to replying to another guy you thought he was me.
My answer was: "Gender-affirming care and gender transition (as the results on Google will call it if you accidentally search "sex transition"), none of this changes your sex, most mammals (including humans) have the XY sex determination system, taking estrogens or other hormones doesn't make you lose your Y and gain an extra X, nor does it make you start producing ova, the only difference is how you look and sound, which (hopefully) makes you more comfortable with your gender, and that's why it's called "gender-affirming care" and "gender transition"."
I don't understand the focus on genes that some people seem to be placing. After the gonads are formed the Y chromosome does not really matter (unless if you have a particularly nasty mutation). All Y does is carry the SRY gene. If you did magically managed to lose your Y chromosome would that make you a woman? No! You would stay a man and literally nothing would change in your life. Same goes if you have two X chromosomes and one magically gets replaced with a Y.
I am also worried about the focus on genes given the existence of intersex people. It's especially weird since sex categories existed long before the creation of modern biology and at least for some people the term sex got redefined to exclude certain men and women who often don't even realize it.
The term gender affirming care seems accurate to me, as part of affirming their gender, trans people (who used to be called transsexual) attempt to transition so that their sex matches their gender identity. On the other hand, the term gender transition seems to include both sex changes and social transition.
I should also mention that estrogen when does not change how you sound, it does however cause other changes not related to one's appearance.
XY sex-determination system is based on the fact that the chromosomes one has at birth cannot change naturally throughout their lifetime, so magical or hypothetical scenarios where chromosomes can be altered doesn't align with our current scientific understanding, but if it makes you happier, sure, in a magic world humans would be able to change their sex.
Also, I don't see how the existence of intersex people should be somewhat problematic in this regard, intersex is a congenital condition, like people who are born with six fingers, that doesn't make the fact that humans have 5 fingers controversial.
To be honest I think I'm kind of stating the obvious and most people (trans people included obv) would agree with me, which is why they use "gender affirming care", "gender transition" and "transgender" (instead of transsexual which is in fact seen as an outdated term). If you don't care about true biological data (plural of datum), but only the opinions of trans people, I can ask my trans friends (one nonbinary and two trans women) what they think about it, even though I actually know them well, and they would agree with me.
Please help me understand this. You are in fact claiming that if somehow someone lost their Y chromosome that would make him a woman despite the lack of any physical or mental changes? I think you have a radically different view of sex compared to most people if so as it is fundamentally incompatible with our social structure.
The claim that most humans have 5 fingers or that most men have XY chromosomes is not controversial. However the claim that you must have 5 fingers to be a human is! This is what the XY sex-determination system is based on, they noticed that most men have XY chromosomes and that most women have XX chromosomes and declared intersex men and women who do not match this model to actually be of the other sex by making an inaccurate map from genes to sex (which is perceived socially and existed before said model).
I believe that the above 2 arguments together are enough to show that it is not an accurate nor a useful sex determination system from a logical perspective.
I think people nowadays avoid the term transsexual because it might be confused with a sexual orientation. I also feel like some people consider the term sex to be vulgar, which is why even these who consider gender=sex often prefer the term gender even when it does not refer to the grammatical gender. Finally the term transgender is often used by some in order in order to be inclusive to people who are not medically transitioning.
You are free to show this thread to your friends if you want. I am sure there are trans people in both camps of the argument.
I think I was very clear when I said: "XY sex-determination system is based on the fact that the chromosomes one has at birth cannot change naturally throughout their lifetime, so magical or hypothetical scenarios where chromosomes can be altered doesn't align with our current scientific understanding", if people manages to change their chromosomes I guess the sex-determination system would probably change but we don't live in that magical world so things are much easier (yeah!)
>However the claim that you must have 5 fingers to be a human is! This is what the XY sex-determination system is based on
No idea what you're talking about ahah, people with a congenital condition are still human and no one said otherwise.
Gender-affirming care, also known as transition (transition what? Their sex!), is done in order to make trans people more comfortable in society, in their inner self (hormones affect mood, behavior, feelings, etc) and in their body by changing their sex. This is why they are prescribed sex hormones as these are what guides gene expression and decide sex-dependent characteristics. While some trans people would be content with just changing their physical appearance most of them seem to actually aim to change their sex.
Gender-affirming care and gender transition (as the results on Google will call it if you accidentally search "sex transition"), none of this changes your sex, most mammals (including humans) have the XY sex determination system, taking estrogens or other hormones doesn't make you lose your Y and gain an extra X, nor does it make you start producing ova, the only difference is how you look and sound, which (hopefully) makes you more comfortable with your gender, and that's why it's called "gender-affirming care" and "gender transition".
We are not discussing whether sex is a spectrum or not though.
Was the nonbinary person that you talked with undergoing medical transition? If not this might explain their view.
