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Guy checking in here that was super skeptical of AA, tried everything else including minimization, psychology, etc.

10 years sober today as a direct result of finally surrendering my ego and walking into the room and giving it a try.

From my "class" I'd say about 25 - 30% of us have made it to this milestone so far.

No two people are built the same is the truth, if you've tried and failed elsewhere don't be dissuaded to try it.




No one is saying that 12 step doesn't have any successes, but:

1. The data is somewhat overwhelming that the rates of success aren't 25-30% as you said, but closer to 7%.[1] This puts it in roughly the same category as no

2. No one is dismissing the idea of doing 12 steps, but 12 steps is often court mandated.

3. 12 Step has more than passing connections to "faith-based" treatments. This is a problem when it's court mandated.

4. Instead of a problem with the program, they categorize inability to complete them as moral failures on the part of the person in treatment.

No one thinks that 12 step treatments shouldn't be an option, but they're not effective evidence based treatment options.

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surpr...


All very good points

My message was less a general response

Vs a note to any struggling HNs that 12-step shouldn't be dismissed out of hand

My upbringing, education, peers, research into the data generally would have had me write off AA

Glad I didn't and gave it a try (after trying many other things)


Congrats on making it 10 years.

The concern I have with making it overly analytical like the HN crowd tends to do, we ignore a good chunk of psychological impact that purely data-driven statements can have. Instead of framing the discussion of "this doesn't work, we need to do something else" the conversation really should be "this works for some people but we can do better - we need to invest in it and figure it out."

That simple flip is easy and acknowledges that people have had success with this and people will continue to do so. It also sends the message that there's no reason to skip this entirely if you are looking for help.


"But unlike AA, I would never claim that what I've suggested is right for everybody. But ... let's say I had nothing better to offer: It wouldn't matter — we still need to change the system as it is because we are harming 90 percent of the people."

It is difficult to tell if those are the words of the NPR author or Lance dodes who wrote the book, but it directly contradicts your statement

"2. No one is dismissing the idea of doing 12 steps"


Changing the system doesn't have to mean getting rid of the 12 steps: it would change the system to make other options equally accessible and respectable.




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