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Ask HN: How do you overcome feeling completely lost in life?
82 points by adantical on Nov 30, 2022 | hide | past | favorite | 105 comments
I feel a bit ambivalent posting this on HN. On one hand, I keep coming back here because it's one of the only places on the internet that I trust and that makes sense to me. On the other hand, most people on here seem to have their sh* together, so to speak, and in that respect I feel like an outsider. Admittedly, these days I come to HN more for self-help than tech news. Reading through the recent threads on loneliness have given me some courage to reach out and be vulnerable, so here goes.

I'm a software developer quickly approaching 30 with no direction in life, no hobbies, no friends, no family, and no idea what I even want to change. I've somehow floated through 30 years of life like this. I've had a few highs and a few more lows, but what's been constant is just this deep sense of emptiness. Like a longing for something I don't have and maybe never will. With every passing year, I've grown more and more weary of life.

In my early twenties, I would self-medicate with various addictions, but for the past few years not even those purely hedonistic activities seem appealing to me. These days I work remotely Monday-Friday, eat, sleep, repeat. Some weekends I even look forward to Mondays, just so I have something to do. But every night, the emptiness of this endless cycle hits me and it feels so paradoxically heavy, like an insurmountable gravitational pull into the void. Though I have no close friends or family, most days I don't even feel lonely -- just hopelessly lost.

The advice I've read concerning this sort of disillusionment boils down to making friends/establishing a sense of connection to the world, and having a sense of personal direction. Doesn't seem to matter whether you start top-down or bottom-up, eventually you're supposed to end up somewhere in the middle as a fulfilled, self-actualized human being. But no matter which end I try to start from, I can't seem to escape the sheer meaninglessness of it all. Making friends/maintaining close relationships doesn't come naturally to me, and the more effort I put into it, the more detached and dishonest I feel. This also seems to be getting harder as I get older, without school or some other form of "forced" interaction. Setting personal goals is even more hopeless when at the core, I just feel empty. Every time I try to set even small goals for myself (starting personal projects, hobbies, etc.), gravity pulls me back into the void. Any sort of direction or intention feels like trying to build a house of cards on a non-existent foundation.

At this point, I'm not sure if I can do this for another 30 years. I feel like Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill in an eternal loop, leaving me with a worsening sense of existential--sometimes literal--nausea.

Thank you for reading. I hope someone can relate to this and impart some wisdom. I've also included an email in my profile because at times I will read a comment or post on here that resonates with me, and I'm disappointed to have no way to reach out directly to the OP. So if that applies to anyone, please don't hesitate to reach out to me.




My advice is this:

Become a different person.

Take your life and incinerate it. Not literally of course.

I mean completely change what and who you are.

You’re an accomplished software engineer at 30? Great. You’re done doing that.

Go buy a $15k trailer, get a truck, and hit the road. Stop looking at screens, only read books. Stop working a job behind a desk, find something else, or if you can afford it don’t work at all.

I suggest reading CrimeThInc: Days of War, Nights of Love. https://crimethinc.com/books/days-of-war-nights-of-love

Pick up a guitar, learn to farm, meet some nomads. Do it all in another country. Break the law. Do whatever you feel like. Don’t hurt people, obviously, but you’re probably a sane enough person to not want to anyway. Learn a new language. Stop speaking your old one. I mean, really, and truly, break out of the matrix. Go to the edges of your universe, like the “Thirteenth Floor”. Get fit, dissolve your old identity. Become awesome at yoga, or weightlifting, or Jiu Jitsu.

You really can choose to become unstuck. Fly to Europe, buy a bike and a tent, and just go, man. Figure it out later. What’s there to be afraid of, really?


This might sound kind of inspirational but as someone who feels similarly to OP, that's a long list of things that I would never want to do. I don't want to do anything - that includes the random list that you're throwing at the wall. It's not like I've always wanted to have a different job, travel or learn more languages and I'm too timid to try these things - I don't want to do anything including all of the things you mentioned.

Change is a good thing but removing all of the stability from your life and spending all of your time doing things that you don't want to do seems like a really bad idea.


What would be a more comfortable way for you to approach new things? Serious question - you say you’re too timid to try these things, which I totally understand.

What do you feel would be an easy way to ease you into new experiences? Someone to help you along? An experience in a medium or setting you’re comfortable in?

This is really the big problem of our time. Old sources of meaning have fallen apart (livelihood, family, community) and I see so many people with a similar sense of emptiness.


> Serious question - you say you’re too timid to try these things, which I totally understand.

They didn't say that at all. They're saying they have no desire to do those things. Even if you injected them with all the confidence in the world they would never walk in that direction. You're completely misunderstanding them.


> I'm too timid to try these things

They did say that.


>It's not like [...] and I'm too timid to try these things

No, the commenter said s/he was not too timid to try, it was the lack of desire to try new things that was the obstacle.


Right, I misread.


Sorry, but I think this is bad advice. It sounds wise and clever on the Internet, but in reality it's just an extension of the "consumer experience" mentality that leads to the society-wide feeling of malaise OP is experiencing. Because the fact is, doing a bunch of random things doesn't lead to any real insight about the human experience or what one's place in it ought to be.

Instead, I suggest that OP (and anyone else) delve into philosophy, religion, and especially the nature of capital-W Work, that being "What do you wish to spend your time doing in order to master it and grow into an identity as such a master?" The film Jiro Dreams of Sushi is an excellent introduction to this, but you can find similar mentalities labeled as "craftsmanship". The key point being that you need to create stuff (including your self) not simply consume it or find it out in the world.


I disagree because it seems to me OP is to comfortable with his life. When you are to comfortable you can't appreciate life and the things you have. The reason some of you don't enjoy the things he listed or basically anything that puts your self out into the world is because you need to retrain your brain to enjoy things again. The hardest part is starting but once you get going it's easy. You need to create difficulties in your life to keep yourself from getting too comfortable. I have spent the past 4 years traveling living overseas in many countries dealing with covid regulations and all the hassles that came with it. I am glad i did it because now everything seems easy. Op's life sounds so relaxing to me.

Because when your in a third world countries and living in run down areas with no warm showers, no ac and there's giant cockroaches or other insects in your bed you 100% won't take things for granted again.

Even just being in America feels like i am so lucky and to be honest i have never been more grateful.


Came here to say this, though I don't know if "comfortable" is the right word. I think a fulfilled live involves a balance between freedom and responsibility.

This post and discussions like this always remind me of Kundera's Unbearable Lightness of Being, which I'd highly recommend to anyone, but especially those contemplating such questions. The major insight, though not immediately helpful, is that life is both heavy and light, and we must learn to live with these coexisting dichotomies.

"In the world of eternal return the weight of unbearable responsibility lies heavy on every move we make. That is why Nietzsche called the idea of eternal return the heaviest of burdens. If eternal return is the heaviest of burdens, then our lives can stand out against it in all their splendid lightness.

But is heaviness truly deplorable and lightness splendid?

The heaviest of burdens crushes us, we sink beneath it, it pins us to the ground. But in the love poetry of every age, the woman longs to be weighed down by the man's body. The heaviest of burdens is therefore simultaneously an image of life's most intense fulfillment. The heavier the burden, the more real and truthful they become. Conversely, the absolute absence of a burden causes man to be lighter than air, to soar into the heights, take leave of the earth and his earthly being, and become only half real, his movements as free as they are insignificant.

What then shall we choose? Weight or lightness?

...That is the question. The only certainty is: the lightness/weight opposition is the most mysterious, most ambiguous of all.” --Milan Kundera


You’re not wrong, but I don’t think “continually make yourself uncomfortable” is really a desirable or doable strategy for most people in the developed world. Especially if you have dependents that don’t want to be taken along for the ride.


I don't think the advice is completely bad, but it doesn't seem to tackle the core issue. Getting out of the comfort zone, being exposed to a new environment and trying out new things can definitely help in order to figure out what to do in life and how to find meaning.


I did something like this. 3 years ago I started traveling while working remotely. I've been to like 30+ countries now in the last few years. My basic thinking was I'd leave some problems behind & some would come with. I worked on the problems that followed me, and got a remote therapist for the hardest stuff. I am in a much happier place now. YMMV.


> What’s there to be afraid of, really?

Incinerating your life, trying all these new things, only to find that the emptiness returns shortly, and now it is no longer paired with a dependable income.


Unless you have mouths to feed, or someone who needs money for medical issues, who cares if you lose a dependable income? Why make decisions based in fear? Fear that you won’t be able to survive, that you won’t be able to make it. Have more confidence in yourself. You’ll adapt, and probably be even better off with the wisdom you’ve accumulated.


Wow, this is incredible advice. OP, I hope this resonates with you :) As someone also approaching 30 and fed up feeling burnt out, I needed to hear this.


You cannot better yourself. You cannot alter yourself in any meaningful way.


This is the right advice, but few people will follow it.


great advice, but seeing crimethinc linked on HN is always wild


I used to feel intensely lonely until my 30s. I made significant efforts to get out there and socialize. Something changed and I'm now considered a very extroverted person by others. A few things clicked inside me. Some books you may want to consider:

1) Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people book.

2) The Game by Neil Strauss(friend gave me a copy .. this is about pick up artists, something I never did but it was influential in some way)

3) Surely you're joking Mr. Feynmann

All these books have something about being social. I make it a bit to get to know strangers (on planes, uber rides, whatever). I almost think of it as a missed opportunity if I don't have an engaging conversation with people. Many are strangers and I'll never see them again, so if I say something stupid, whatever. I guess that is the idea I got from The Game.

I still suck in group settings socially. I feel incredibly awkward. But 1-1, I am actually impressed with my transformation. I was super introverted until exactly 30. I guess one other thing that changed is if someone invites me to something social, I always came along, and I kept a smile on my face. This was exceptionally easy to do in NYC (getting invites to hang out with people I mean).

I also have to say, friend, you must love and respect yourself, first and foremost. I felt some pain in your words. Look .. we all have done stupid things we may cringe on in reflection. My addiction is tech and online shopping. I try to do my vices in moderation. Don't judge yourself too harshly. We're all imperfect humans. Good luck to you.


Please note that Neil Strauss has said that pickup artistry destroyed his ability to relate to women and remain faithful to his wife, and that he seems to regret it. I'm only so familiar with his work, but my understanding is that he didn't know what to do when he met a woman he actually cared for, and that he couldn't "turn off" his objectification of women and his desire for sexual conquest.

I'd really encourage people to steer clear of pickup artistry, especially people who feel they are in a vulnerable frame of mind. The central goal of pickup artistry is to manipulate women into lowering their expectations rather than being a partner who fulfills their needs. And that's just not a recipe for happiness in the long term. (And it's not an okay way to treat people either.)


I agree with what you said, and said the same. I never cared to practice it (and have some moral qualms with it). The book was insightful for me nonetheless.


I understand. I've taken meaning from problematic books before too, specifically the adjacent community (with similar problems) of "body language experts" (which turns out to be a grift unsupported by evidence). I did try to use this, with cringey results. I don't recommend these books to people anymore, but there is the odd concept I still find interesting.

I figured that many people would be lurking this thread, potentially for years after this, looking for advice, and I just wanted to put up a sign post in front of this rabbit hole.

Once I went through a terrible breakup with a woman who emotionally abused and gaslit me. I was traumatized and vulnerable, and looking for answers. Thank goodness I didn't stumble into the pickup or Manosphere communities; I worry I'd have been easy pickings for the grifters who prey on them.


I will check out the books you mentioned. Judging from the books and your experience, it seems like maybe what changed for you was taking it all a little less seriously, which resonates with me. I do get the sense that some people approach life a bit more like a game, where sadness, joy, and fun are just naturally a part of the journey -- nothing more, nothing less. Thank you for your kind words.


„How to talk to anyone” by Leil Lowndes is also a great and actionable book.

+1 for scepticisms towards pickup artistry. I'd rather aim for „how can I become the person that women actually want“.


Jim Carrey said:

“People talk about depression all the time. The difference between depression and sadness is sadness is just from happenstance — whatever happened or didn’t happen for you, or grief, or whatever it is. Depression is your body saying f*ck you, I don’t want to be this character anymore, I don’t want to hold up this avatar that you’ve created in the world. It’s too much for me.

You should think of the word ‘depressed’ as ‘deep rest.’ Your body needs to be depressed. It needs deep rest from the character that you’ve been trying to play.”


I feel everyone is playing a character, in a way. There's more to unpack here, but perhaps I just haven't found the character that feels right/true.


Multiple characters, each with multiple masks.


I was in your exact same situation and know the feeling of nausea-inducing existential dread all too well. I abused alcohol pretty heavily to cope.

I can’t believe I’m about to post this, and I’m almost certain it won’t be received well by this community, but stepping into a local Christian church could potentially give you all of the things you’re longing for. You don’t have to be unintelligent or believe in mysticism to be spiritually connected through Christianity.

I attempted to pursue Buddhism previously, but there wasn’t anything pulling me away from the void strongly enough to get me to keep going. If you step into a Christian church, you’re likely to find people who will spend energy pulling you away from the void.


I'm not particularly religous right now (I consider myself agnostic, but pray every once in a while anyway), but growing up every Sunday I attended church in the morning and youth group in the evening (because my parents took me).

At the time I had mixed feelings about it, liked some of the other kids in the youth group, but I often just wanted to be lazy on Sundays instead. Now that I'm older, I kind of miss having a place you could just go to each week if you want to talk to the same groups of people and do activities that doesn't just involve drinking (I rarely drink now, and never drink more than two beers now).

I used to sign up for meetups a lot, and still do from time to time (signed up for a hike this weekend), but there's a lot of inconsistency there (no guarantee a group you're wanting to meet up with will be hosting anything that week, or even that month). I did meet some good friends though that originally, although most have kind of drifted apart after getting married and having children (did have a mini-reunion at one of their baby showers recently, though).

Seeing the same people consistently with a low stress activity you can focus on (board games, movies, scavenger hunt, escape room, karaoke, volunteer work, painting/writing/crafting, etc) to keep the pressure off having to be super 'on' and talkative with people who start as strangers, and you just get to know these people slowly over time, seems to work the best for me.

I have actually considered checking out the activities at a local church. I don't want to sit in a service or worship (sermons I don't mind anymore, there can be some interesting philosopy or life lessons in there, it's actually all the time spent singing or reciting things that I don't want to do), but I wouldn't mind a place I can stop by and say hi to people, maybe play some card games or help with some light volunteer work or something. Haven't pulled the trigger on it yet, though.

Also discovered recently that the local forest preserve district hosts a lot of activities, and a decent amount of adult only activities, so I might start doing that more. A lot of campfire activities, kayaking, hikes, cleaning up the forests, etc. Seems like some good people that attend those, too.


Exactly. From a purely secular perspective, having a consistent community to participate in seems to be an innate human need that churches supplied for a long time.

There are plenty of other ways to meet that need nowadays that are especially attractive given the poor example that some Christians set. My hope is that people find satisfaction in life one way or another.


“poor example that some Christians set?”…can you recommend any group of ~1B people that doesn’t have members that “set a bad example”? Do you think you yourself could stand that scrutiny? (I doubt it.)

The OP says he is feeling lost. Following a map sounds like the sort of thing you do if you are lost. Any of the core scriptures of any of the major religions has the sort of map the OP may be looking for. Read deeply and broadly (Bible, Koran, Torah, Upanishads, Dhammapada, Sutras, Tao Te Ching…but often popular writings about the Scriptures are an easier start or even religious poetry, Perennialist or New Thought/New Age writings). Then find a community you like consistent with what you find true in your reading of those texts, if you wish. Many billions of people over the centuries couldn’t have been that wrong taking such an approach.

But choosing a community first before finding your philosophical/spiritual footing runs the risk falling into a cult. They can seem “especially attractive”…at first. As can political and philosophical fringe groups. Try not to waste your time (and lots of money) by putting their cart before your horse. First find and listen to the still, small voice within, then explore what direction will lead towards your better life. If someone proposes the opposite (community before individual spiritual exploration and commitment), run away while keeping one hand over your wallet, because your money is what they are really interested in.

If you already feel comfortable in the spiritual tradition you were born into, then you already have your answer…you just need to deepen your understanding and actually pursue the practices of that millennia-long tradition. Community and theurgy can help. As the Dalai Lama said, you can test whether you are on the right path if your path is making you kinder and more loving to all you meet. Love your neighbor as yourself. Golden rule. Not that hard :-). I’m guessing your heart will be way more important in finding your way than your head will be. You do know where your heart is, don’t you? :-)


Lots of folks including myself have experienced church hurt within the Christian community. I’m just leaving the door open to acknowledge those experiences and set them apart as being distinct from the message of the gospel.


This is clearly linked to one of the four existential givens "meaning and meaninglessness.

Carl Jung said, man needs to find meaning to continue his journey around the world, therefore, without this meaning, he is lost in no man’s land and wandering the labyrinth of existence.

I too felt this great cloud hanging over me in my early 30's, I am now nearly 70.

I left school with no formal qualifications, worked in the building trade and constantly asked myself "Is this all there is". For me, I found that while I was stuck in this place of no return, the boredom, the depression and an overwhelming sense of just giving up on life I found my way. It is in this place that you need to trust your organic self to find your way.

I came to realise that everything I had previously done in my life has been programming by society, family and a raft of other institutions. Ultimately none of this I actaully chose to be my life.

So I changed my life to do things that I wanted. I gorged on books and went back to college and university, qualified as a psychotherapists and spent the next 30 years loving life.

Taking responsibility, another existentialist requirement. Namely taking responsibility for your current life situation. As Sartre said, "The individual still retains the agency over their own existence and they are still free to make the choice"

At 30 years old your brain has only been fully developed for about 5 years, Now is the time to reconstruct the life you choose.

books: all Carl Jung, Victor Frankl, Irvin Yalom or any existential philosophers


I too feel like I am trapped in a life I didn't choose, and was "programmed" for me. But while I like everything being said here and would love to "take charge of my existence" its not like I can just leave a 1 year old alone because I "want to change my life to do the things I want".


It's 6 AM. My wife's away for work, I didn't digest a pizza, I have dishes to do before the plumber comes at 8, a gift package to collect at some UPS point at 7, some residual burnout due to too many things to do in the last week, month, year, years, and a Monster energy drink yesterday which has completely blown up my metabolism. I'm on Discord looking for humans, you know, a little irrational, non-conformant human beings. That spark of chaos that brings curiosity back in and depression out. I've been struggling all life with minor depression, I'm 38. A developer who hasn't done any career. I remember times being younger nerding at night learning Linux with no regrets , or when I was playing in a videogames' music band. It's not what I do, it's the degree of freedom that I felt in doing it. Now I could play bass again but it would not be the same. But I'll tell you, keep on searching and fighting. Life is a journey, you'll never know where you'll end up. Things come unexpected


> That spark of chaos that brings curiosity back in and depression out. > It's not what I do, it's the degree of freedom that I felt in doing it.

This rings true to me. In the depths of depression, I find that curiosity gets replaced with a self-fulfilling, self-defeating, yet overly self-confident prophecy -- that every new experience will just be a rebranding of something I've already experienced. I'm sorry to hear you've struggled in a similar way, but happy to hear you've found hope somewhere in the chaos. Thank you for the wisdom.


These mental blocking mechanisms are symptoms of your brain rejecting something in your present or past. You really have to surrender first, lower your defenses, or the cortisol will always make you feel lacking, in danger, void. But you don't need this, it's just harming you, surrender, be vile, don't overjudge. Listen to Wreckage by Entombed. We already failed when we were born, imperfect from the start.


This is the reason why travel does not appeal to me the way it seems to for most people. Its still me travelling. Cynical and self-defeating, I know.


Hope you got those dishes done, man.


Yep, done, finished at 7.10.


I prayed at a party while sleeping on a friend's sofa in the 80s and said, "if you are out there Jesus, will you come into my life?" This was the beginning of a new life for me.

My understanding of life has been shaped over the decades by biblical teaching and personal encounters with the Holy Spirit.

Rather than hoping that life is good to me, I try to do good. I also have an eternal view on my actions. What the bible would refer to as storing up treasures in heaven.

I think I would feel lost like yourself if I was trying to understand life from inside my own head. I lean on the the wisdom of the bible and fellowship of other christians.

I would recommend you connect with a local church. Church websites give a good indication of what's going on on in your local church.

Good luck on your journey.


A great (sometimes) solution if you believe in Jesus, or whatever beliefs are tied to the religion you choose - but to many of us, whether happy or not with life, becoming religious just isn't a realistic option.

And given how often we find out that even religious leaders such as priests, yet alone general believers, are terrible people - whether white nationalists or sex offenders or terrorists or... well, pretty much any crime that humans sometimes commit, I'm not convinced that joining a group of religious people has a higher chance of success than joining any community group. If the Christians in your life are all lovely people then that's awesome, but there's plenty of awesome atheists / people who believe in other religions, and, as with religious people, plenty of nasty atheists too - I'm not suggesting religious people should be avoided or are more likely to be evil, just that I don't think religion is ever a good indicator for whether or not a local community is one you do or don't want to be a part of.

But sure, community groups in general do seem to be a positive thing for a huge number of people, religious or not, and if you do believe (or have a religious group that doesn't mind if you don't really believe and are happy with people who just want to be a good member of their community) then great.

I don't believe personally, but having read the bible and gone to a huge number of religious services (albeit always as a non-believer), I thing the world would be a better place if more people followed the guidance of Jesus in the bible. But I haven't seen evidence that people who believe in Jesus actually do follow his teachings more (nor less) than the average atheist.


As a Christian I'd agree that religious leaders and congregations can often be disappointing in our behaviour, given what rules of life we claim to follow. There are also people of no faith at all who go to church and basically pretend to be Christian for other purposes such as making business contacts. But that's the point isn't it? We're flawed human beings, capable of good and of bad, and Jesus called us to follow him to sort ourselves out , with his help. When you go to a church most people (including the clergy!) are some way along the journey to being sufficiently influenced by God to be able to be capable of more good and less bad. And even people far along the journey have their "off days". What the OP's Q shouts to me is lack of community and lack of a place to find friends. Churches are far from perfect but they can be a place to find community and friendship, flawed though it is, that's sorely lacking elsewhere due to people always being too busy / insular / living in car-centric neighbourhoods etc which seems a particular problem in N America. My 2p anyway, disagreements welcome :)


As a younger man I used to apologise for other christians who let the show down, but now I don't. As you say there are many good and bad from all walks of life. The church is my family and we all know how families tend to play out.

I think as human beings we need to think seriously on the question, why are we here? And I also think that we need to have good relationships, be part of a community. I have realised this more as I have gotten older. Some will be surprised when they reach their work/money goals. You will find you will still be left with questions. I speak from experience. At 50 I am reading books written by 80 year olds looking back at life. It makes interesting reading.


> becoming religious just isn't a realistic option

I was thinking exactly like that 10 years ago.

Until I finally realized that

1) people, be it enlightened priests or corrupted believers, have nothing to do with god nor with faith

2) faith is the most basic and fundamental feature of our human mind and the idea pf god is an ultimate pinpoint of this feature.

So being a reasonable man, i prefer to believe in something ideal and absolute, rather than any other limited ideas invented by specific people (sometimes with bad intentions).


>other limited ideas invented by specific people (sometimes with bad intentions)

So, like, religion?


Yes, you don’t _believe_ in religion. Otherwise you’re nothing but a stupid and dangerous fanatic.

You believe in god and religion is just a tool that helps you organize your faith and connect it to your everyday life.


I don't have any advice, I'm in a similar situation. Just know you're not alone and plenty of people here will be more than willing to lend you their ear. It won't fix your depression, but venting to someone who understands your situation will at least make you feel less alone. Therapy with a professional will also help, but it often takes a while to find one you resonate with.


I'm pretty much in the same boat, so I don't have any good advice, but you have my sympathy. The only thing that's kept me going for the past year is setting a "final project" to complete before I die. This "big goal" feels a little less pointless than the "small goals", even though I know it's not.


May I ask what your "final project" is? I'm curious what you've identified as important or close to you in this way. I've felt like this before as well, like might as well dedicate my life to a project, but have never been able to keep up the motivation for big goals like this.


Designing and writing a programming language and compiler/interpreter/IDE completely from scratch. The motivation is due to my lack of joy/outright hate of using most languages, and a big dose of wanting to do something that most people haven't. The idea of it has taken hold of me and become an obsession, but I've also been afraid to speak about it until recently for fear of losing hold of the only goal I've ever had in life.


Jesus guys. The problem isn't the guy doesn't know what to do , it's that he's not motivated to do anything . In most cases you get motivated by doing, thats true, but know this : it doesnt matter, because you are Sisyphus, we all are. Find a struggle and embrace the suck cause that's all there is. Everyone has their delusions. My only recommendation is reading books you'll find that you re not alone and sometimes that's enough to feel just a little better to do something about however you feel.


> But no matter which end I try to start from, I can't seem to escape the sheer meaninglessness of it all.

First of all, you are right. There isn't an once of "meaning" to anything. So don't feel "flawed" for seeing the naked truth as it is, while surrounded by a bunch of us delusionals thinking there is some sort of "meaning" to our lives. The meaning is what we put in ourselves. It's a product of our minds. Sso there is nothing to escape from.

Now, what next then?

Writting this whole post shows effort and concern. You seem concerned about your situation. This is good, this is a driving force. Use it. You are an organism, a system, that for some reason function out of the "norm". Study this system scientifically and figure out why that it. Not necesserily for the purpose of getting better. But for the shake of knowledge, for the shake of understanding yourself and putting your mind at ease.

> Making friends/maintaining close relationships doesn't come naturally to me, and the more effort I put into it, the more detached and dishonest I feel.

No reason to feel dishonest. Be straight upfront, state your selfish reasons for interacting with others and i bet you will find people who will love to hang out with you and help you, because you know why? They also need what you need, they just don't see it as clearly as you do. You know you need to interact with them to get better, they just do it instictively without knowing. As before, you've just seen the naked truth, unlike the rest.


Focus on getting out the house first. Experience the world. Try meditation. Exercise - not for muscle or aesthetics, but because of the endorphins that will make you feel better.

Don't set goals. The only goal should be to undertake these actions regularly. Life might still feel intellectually empty while doing these things, and that's okay. The point here is to start with your body as it'll feed your mind and you might start to feel a bit better.


It's a little hard to provide good advice when you say that the deep sense of emptiness has always been with you, and that you have no idea what you want to change.

I'm sure you've spent a lot of time thinking about how you feel, so I find it interesting that you're unable to identify what potentially could fix the sense of emptiness. Have there been any times in your life when you felt significantly less empty or even somewhat closer to a sense of meaning?

I agree with a couple of the other posters that what society expects people to want can feel very sick and pointless, and that people in such a society often internalize unhealthy assumptions over time (selfishness, isolation, etc).

Maybe spending time in a foreign country with a healthier culture would be good, or trying to carefully reconsider some of the most fundamental axioms / perspectives that you might have unconsciously internalized. Maybe it's worth dropping some of those axioms or adopting new ones? If you feel like you've hit a bottom, then testing out new perspectives just for fun might be worthwhile (or at least harmless, since the only place to go is up).


>I'm sure you've spent a lot of time thinking about how you feel, so I find it interesting that you're unable to identify what potentially could fix the sense of emptiness. Have there been any times in your life when you felt significantly less empty or even somewhat closer to a sense of meaning?

I do think too much self-awareness can be a problem, and maybe that's what you're getting at. The times when I don't feel as empty are usually when I'm distracted by something in the external world, and momentarily stop ruminating on my own thoughts. I do feel like they are "distractions", but now I am wondering why I consider them distractions (from what?), and if that's one of the fundamental axioms, as you say, that I should reconsider. Thank you for the insight.


> There is an old Eastern fable about a traveler who is taken unawares on the steppes by a ferocious wild animal. In order to escape the beast the traveler hides in an empty well, but at the bottom of the well he sees a dragon with its jaws open, ready to devour him. The poor fellow does not dare to climb out because he is afraid of being eaten by the rapacious beast, neither does he dare drop to the bottom of the well for fear of being eaten by the dragon. So he seizes hold of a branch of a bush that is growing in the crevices of the well and clings on to it. His arms grow weak and he knows that he will soon have to resign himself to the death that awaits him on either side. Yet he still clings on, and while he is holding on to the branch he looks around and sees that two mice, one black and one white, are steadily working their way round the bush he is hanging from, gnawing away at it. Sooner or later they will eat through it and the branch will snap, and he will fall into the jaws of the dragon. The traveler sees this and knows that he will inevitably perish. But while he is still hanging there he sees some drops of honey on the leaves of the bush, stretches out his tongue and licks them. In the same way I am clinging to the tree of life, knowing full well that the dragon of death inevitably awaits me, ready to tear me to pieces, and I cannot understand how I have fallen into this torment. And I try licking the honey that once consoled me, but it no longer gives me pleasure. The white mouse and the black mouse – day and night – are gnawing at the branch from which I am hanging. I can see the dragon clearly and the honey no longer tastes sweet. I can see only one thing; the inescapable dragon and the mice, and I cannot tear my eyes away from them. And this is no fable but the truth, the truth that is irrefutable and intelligible to everyone.

> The delusion of the joys of life that had formerly stifled my fear of the dragon no longer deceived me. No matter how many times I am told: you cannot understand the meaning of life, do not thinking about it but live, I cannot do so because I have already done it for too long. Now I cannot help seeing day and night chasing me and leading me to my death. This is all I can see because it is the only truth. All the rest is a lie.

> Those two drops of honey, which more than all else had diverted my eyes from the cruel truth, my love for my family and for my writing, which I called art – I no longer found sweet.

—Leo Tolstoy, A Confession


Tolstoy's Confession is a short yet quite thoughtful read that I'm glad I happened to stumble on many years ago. I'm due for a reread. Even if you don't agree with the conclusions he comes to in there, you will likely relate to the struggles he shares.

Herman Hesse's Siddhartha gave me a somewhat similar feeling after finishing it, which I'm also overdue for a reread.


Volunteer. Go help other people. Something with commitment, not just casual. See how other people are trying to survive. Perhaps you’ll start appreciating how fortunate you are in the process. Take responsibility upon yourself. Stick through it.

Join the military. Join the police. Set a goal to pass and get accepted.

Start doing a sport. Track your progress vigorously. Commit to doing it for at least a year. Rain or sunshine, snow or mud.


You can get a pet to start, a fish-tank is super-low maintenance and quite nice and distracting when you need it to be.

Make a routine where you get out of the house and go buy a newspaper. Then read it on a bench somewhere.

Start with these two.


I was there with you at that age and I am sure that those smarter than me will offer great advice. Now I'm older, married and have a child and I don't even think about myself and what I am feeling anymore. Looking after other people seems to be the key for me. I don't even have an internal monologue anymore!


Newtons law of motion: Things will keep on going in their same staight line until you change it. If you keep doing the same, you'll get the same kind of result.

If you want to change, something will have to change. You'll have to do it yourself.

They can be dramatic or incremental - doesn't matter.

The difficulty lies in obtaining Motivation, from a world where everything is comfortable. Modern world does not really require you to do much, so your biology will always gravitate to the least-effort path. That's why McDonald's exists, or why people don't challenge their religious belief-systems.

Do something hard - because it is hard. And while doing that, think about how you're giving a big FU to society and your biology.

Anger is a really good motivator.


A couple other comments alluded to this, but the advice I would give (as someone who felt lost when I was way younger and joined the Army to fix it) is to get in great shape. Doesn't have to be some crazy fitness goal, maybe something simple like "I want to be able to do 80 pushups without stopping".

For your health, obviously, this is good. But it's also a gateway to meeting new friends. Your weight lifting buddy suddenly invites you out to grab a beer or go to a ballgame, and suddenly his/her friends are your friends and then that longing for Monday starts to dissipate a bit. It can be a real gateway.


I definitely get the emptiness... In many ways it's totally rational to feel like this because there is no global meaning out there. Meaning only makes sense at the local level and within the confines of a project/goal. That elusive transcendent purpose can only be found within religion, which is functionally just a different kind of project.

For me, accepting this reality has been therapeutic but it doesn't help you work out what to do with your time. The search for meaning seems to be baked in to human nature so my advice would be to just choose some projects and embrace those localised meaning structures. I use the term "project" here very loosely - it could be building a game, being a better partner, travelling, improving your health, raising a child, watching all the films of Agnes Varda. Whatever!

You might ask, well what criteria should I use to choose which projects to focus on? Unfortunately there is no good answer here. If there are things you like doing or feel you want to achieve, start there. Don't take it too seriously and avoid over-analysis because humans aren't actually very good at working out what they desire anyway.

Life really is just choosing projects that resonate and focusing on them for a while. That might not feel like enough but in my experience, anyone offering more than this is probably trying to sell you something. Freedom and emptiness are just two sides of the same coin unfortunately.


What helps me is telling the truth about how I feel, to myself and to others.

It may seem too simple, yet it has helped me so much.

> Making friends/maintaining close relationships doesn't come naturally to me, and the more effort I put into it, the more detached and dishonest I feel.

For me, that detachment and dishonesty drives me deeper into meaninglessness.

I really try to just answer the questions "How do I feel right now" and maybe "How do I want to feel" or "What do I want to do". Very simple yet really really hard to answer sometimes.

You say you feel empty and when I've felt that way, it's often because my body is feeling something and I feel so disconnected from it. Maybe it's not the same for you.

Regardless, it has helped me so much. It's hard for me to answer "What do I want to do with my life" if I can't even answer "What do I want to eat for dinner" and I've found one of the easiest ways to answer that is "How do I feel when I think about eating pizza...how do I feel when I think about eating a salad...how do I feel when I think about eating dessert...etc." Connecting to the feeling, to the body, and putting it into words has really helped me a lot.

Anyways, I'd love to chat with you more about this if you find it helpful, I sure hope it helps a bit.


Read Ecclesiastes - he feels your pain.


The restaurant industry has been completely wrecked. Maybe pick up a line-cook or other back of house gig. Since it’s fairly easy work to pick up, you can shop around a bit. You might not even need to give them a resume, just ask to talk to a manager and tell them you’re looking to pick some kitchen work up. There are places that’ll just toss you an apron. It can be a pretty hard job at times but there is a lot of bonding and some have a great atmosphere that will feel like family after a while. Just an idea, you’ll get some life skills and free food. Food trucks are actually kind of a neat middle ground and the hours could be easier on your schedule if you tell them you can only work weekends and some dinners. It’ll be very tight inside so guaranteed bonding over a scorching hot summer. You’ll work with young people still in the friend making frame of mind.


Interesting question. I’ve felt lost most of my life but haven’t consciously thought of trying to overcome the feeling itself. Lately I’ve been looking at humans and animals as all not knowing why we’re here but doing stuff anyway and wondering why and what’s the point. I’m exploring the idea of the point being to just be and if that’s the case then how can I be the most alive in any given moment. I’ve been examining when I feel the most alive and how to have more of those moments. For you it seems you’re unable to identify those moments but you mentioned you have had a few highs. I wonder if that’s a good place to start. Whatever you were doing leading up to those moments, do more of that. See what’s tangential and explore from there. As others have said, you’re not alone. I hope you figure out ways to have more moments of feeling less lost


To me this sounds like loneliness caused by lack of community. If you could make some friends, from all ages, walks of life, you'd probably be much happier and have perspective on things. The challenge is the place to meet people. I'd recommend doing some volunteer hours, for various causes that are worthwhile and a way to meet other people. If one is ever depressed, a fast way out of it is to help someone, in person (rather than remotely) and see a smile that you helped put on their face. Others mentioned church. That might be worth exploring, if you're open to the idea of such beliefs. Preferably something fairly mainstream and diverse rather than wacky or cultish. Good luck :)


Check out “childhood emotional neglect” and “complex posttraumatic stress disorder (CPTSD)”. There are lots of books, websites, and forums about this.

Your chronic feeling of emptiness and lack of joy indicate that you have turned off your emotions, maybe in early childhood, maybe to block out a traumatic experience or because your family ignored you and so emotions felt useless.

Look for a therapist who specializes in these issues. You will probably need to try out multiple therapists before you find one for you.

Sounds like you have a lot going for you. It is really common with these issues to have low self-esteem, to feel lots of shame, to feel hopelessly broken, etc, but other people probably do not see you like that.


Remember that your overall purpose of life is to simply live it. Let go of your inner expectations ('long term goals') and exist. New long term goals will appear in a new direction as they see fit, and if you have interest, work on those. When those change, continue onward.

Long term is simply 'in this period when I'm alive". We don't know this duration. Ease up on yourself, breathe and enjoy what interests you.

Obviously 5hing changes when you/it you have children, but tia but another path to be pursued if it arises!


Keep your job, but wonder the earth a bit. Do some traveling, either road trips or flying places. Meet other people, see other things, ways of life, discover what's put there and then once you've expressed a bit you will just know. You'll just know what things you like, what things you don't, what you want to double down on and what you want to avoid. Give yourself the space to explore and discover what you like. To do so you need to go out in the world and explore.


This might be overly pragmatic and underthinking things, but what worked very well for me personally is to make an account on meetup.com and go to random events (but of course things that you're likely to enjoy). Especially meeting up again with the same group on a semi-regular basis is very satisfying and I made a lot of new friends and certainly got out of the door a lot using this strategy.


every word you typed sounds true to me, I'm also in same age group and job , social situation etc, i have not figured out everything, but on the social interaction part i can say something, that i observed and trying to do, in school and college i did this unconsciously, so when I was with my friends, i have not necessarily thought i have to engage in conversation or etc, but i would be with my friends silently and talk when some topic i like comes, but as i get older and got into job, i came to a mind set that i have to constantly engage with people verbally, which is the trap for avoiding social interaction and getting lonely, sometimes you don't have to talk when in group, you can just sit there and watch people talk or engage in some imagination , but the being physically present gives some kind of fulfillment, that i did my social interaction for the day,second thing not to do is trying to judge or correct all the time if someone is wrong about something, we can just cross over it and find something common to talk about


I don't have any advice. But I gotta say, I relate to this so much I may as well have written this post word for word.


Change your location and observe yourself. If you feel better, that's the right direction.

I'll e-mail you with more ideas.


I’m surprised there’s no mention of psychedelics as a way to get out of your rut. Magic mushrooms aren’t a cure all, but they can help lift the fog and aid rediscovery in your passions and purpose. Of course, you should always do this with a sitter and with preexisting medical conditions taken into account.


Hard situation to be in...

Here are different things that have helped me or some of my friends (none with exactly the same situation, but with similarities...). Many things have a small effect short term that compound over the time...

- Finding a good counselor you click with (they had to change to find the good one) had been very important and very impactful for 2 of my friends with dire situations... This had been a gradual, over several years, but "spectacular". I think everybody could be better/happier if could do that at some point. (On the top of that, some of my friends got diagnosed "gifted", hypersensitive or on the autism spectrum, and that helped them to understand past things and to navigate present. And I think there is an over-representation of those situation among HN readers...)

- Volunteering, if possible in a group, and helping people you are in contact with, and doing something else than what you do for a living. This is not game changing, but you do help some people, meet new people (that you don't choose), test something different

- Going to work regularly on a small coworking space you kinda click with (me was a self-managed community one). Short term I enjoyed having lunch or coffee with people different than me or my colleagues (and be less alone all day), learning things, giving them a hand at the occasion. Longer term I made some acquaintances and even friends.

- Trying one/some extracurricular activities with the same group of people, some commitment, and fixed time in the week. Those constraints lower the motivation required to keep attending it, which is very important to be able to keep doing it, and then secondly, being in position to benefits from it. It is much harder to keep doing things in you own (ex. running alone, or learning guitar on youtube)

- Trying to live abroad for couple of years (and doing some of the things listed above at the same time). Abroad it is often easier to connect with people. Because people does not know you (yet) and you are in a very new place, you can sometimes feel more free from many (unconscious) "constraints" or burden you were carrying. Being in a very new environment can be stimulating. It helps to get a different insights on you. Depending were you are from and what you like, the place can be very different, with very different experience (personally I met people who really got something from moving from Europe to (busy) Saigon, Chiang Mai or (relatively quiet) Vientiane, or American people moving to Saigon, Vientiane or France)


Sounds like you are depressed. It happens to a lot of us. There’s no answer. Depression is sometimes just there.

No, exercise won’t fix it. Neither will eating well.

Maybe do an appointment with a doctor and see how that goes. Maybe see a therapist? It might help to just talk to someone not emotionally invested.

Best of luck.


Exercise and a better diet are proven to help with depression. They aren't cures, but they can help. Speaking to someone such as a therapist or doctor is great advice.


might exercise at least slightly invigorate and thereby improve it?


> But every night, the emptiness of this endless cycle hits me and it feels so paradoxically heavy, like an insurmountable gravitational pull into the void [...] The advice I've read concerning this sort of disillusionment boils down to making friends/establishing a sense of connection to the world, and having a sense of personal direction.

I'm also quickly approaching thirty as a remote-working dev, have a nice social life + an amazing GF, but existential dread is still an issue now and then :)

Improving your social life is generally a good idea, but to me it seems that fundamental problem is a lack of meaning, purpose and direction.

Some people are merrily living their lives and never face the abyss of „what's the point of all of this”. Apparently you're not one of them, so might need to find purpose in order to achieve a reasonable level of satisfaction in life.

The elephant in the room: Unless you are convinced that every human life (including yours) or at least humanity at whole is inherently valuable, there really is no point in all of this. Especially when considering all the looming crises humanity is facing. Hedonism isn't fulfilling, as you've noticed yourself.

Go take a deep dive into philosophy, religion, psychology. Figure out what you want in life and work towards it.

I can very much recommend listening to/reading Jordan Peterson. Helped me a lot over the past years. I'm currently reading Carl Jung about yearning as a fundamental condition of life and its relation to creativity.


Can relate. At least you don't have a family which makes you a lot more flexible.

Sometimes I just wish I could dump everything, every responsibility, be the bad guy and be gone.


Not every problem has a solution.

Your problem has no solution, statistically speaking.

Please consider the possibility that you can't really change anything, just adapt and accept life as it is.


Are you really lost if you can point out you're lost?

Read some Ecclesiastes or "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. Or maybe "Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass" for some perspective.

At certain times in life the watering hole dries up, when external and/or internal motives have been squeezed to their last drop it sometimes feels like a desert. Those moments present the opportunity to head down a path to become more authentically loving (Christ-like). Following that lighthouse is always the right direction, no matter how lost you may feel.


> Are you really lost if you can point out you're lost?

Probably yes? If you're lost in the middle of a desert with no idea where to go to find the nearest people, knowing that you don't know doesn't somehow mean you're not lost. And I'm not sure how metaphorically lost in life is different?


read books and workout. very simple. simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, as always. worked for me when I failed the national exam. worked for me when I was unemployed. worked for me when my startup almost went bankrupt the moment Covid hit. worked for me when nearly all my employees left. worked for me and my people every single time… hope you will find happiness and peace in life.


I could type out a long essay that could potentially have relevance to a few points at play here, but let me try something else.

While your attempts to create direction/meaning/etc. for yourself have largely, by your account failed, it seems that you're sufficiently responsible to maintain employment doing software development. As you say, it gives you something to do, and for whatever reason, it makes enough sense to your mind as a motivator to keep at it for the long term.

What if you were to get a dev job that's 100% in-office? Yes, it's forced interaction, but unless you're ultimately a sociopath or something, you'll create enough context with people to potentially form some friendships that can extend beyond work hours. Don't be like a sad puppy following everyone around and don't be an aloof hermit hiding in your cubicle or whatever setup there would be -- both of those things would halt any progress. Observe the social environment and look for opportunities to get involved in the ways that you may be interested in without forcing yourself to be the opposite of who you think you are. If you don't know what you're interested in, then observe until you start getting some ideas. You have the ability in you -- being a software dev requires some level of imagination.

Maybe there's a delivery team monthly bar meetup -- go to that. Maybe there's a department-wide softball match every quarter -- go to that. Go and give it a try, and if it doesn't work out, at least you'd have the satisfaction of having tried.


Books. Read. Read a lot.


This is Oogway in you is getting disappointed with Shifu.


Same. Let me know when you find the answer.


How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan


I've been in what I think is a similar place before. Every now and then, I still find myself right there on the edge. In those moments, for me, it's not that I want to exist, or not exist, it's just ...grey. And, an average grey at that - let's call it #CCC. Nothing drives me or energizes me. I just ... am. The advice you mention -- finding friends, connecting with the world around you, finding purpose, finding passion, finding things that satisfy the brain -- was always useless advice to me. It's honestly good advice if a person is in a position to receive it and when they try it, it actually works and moves the needle. It just didn't work for me because it was the wrong timing. I needed to solve my first problems first.

I had to figure out my brain chemistry and what my brain needed. Once everything was mostly fine-tuned through some meds and therapy, I was able to better figure out what I needed.

I found the advice that was previously useless to me made a difference. It's not like code though where you knock something out and after twenty hours of hard work you feel like you achieved something grand and you're proud of your work. No, this is a much slower pace and it requires persistence. Small attempts day by day leads to things looking entirely different after a year.

I needed to work on my physical health and exercise more. I needed healthier habits and boundaries with work. That put my brain chemistry in an even better position.

I needed a connection to people. I too am not the best at maintaining relationships. My brain has issues with object permanence. If it is not in front of me, even people, I just don't think about them. I set up a notebook as a personal CRM and I try to check in with a group of friends and a very close friend as often as I can. Be sure to make a close friend or two. Someone you can share who you really are with. Talk about the things that are not going well in your life. Our culture doesn't promote people being vulnerable with one another but it makes a huge difference if you can find a friend you feel comfortable getting close to. It was challenging for me in my mid to late thirties to try and connect with people again. People are married, have kids, and have moved on and I simply did not stay in touch. Here I was suddenly 'showing back up' as if I hadn't flaked on them for the last 15 years. It has made a difference to have friends. At the end of the day, we're a social species, even the most introverted of us. It may not feel natural or it may not even feel like it's improving your situation but keep grinding it out to create some close friends. I'm a software developer too. I find I like the ritual of being tenacious and pushing through to solve interesting problems. It's a dopamine hit for me to have an interesting problem and solve it. I then love factoring the solution until it is the best abstraction I can come up with. But, my brain has an issue with classifying "interesting" correctly so I have to hack my motivation on mundane work frequently. If an issue isn't interesting, my brain loses motivation. If it is something that really interests my brain, I'm fully on board until I understand the inner workings. I find I have to hack my motivations with relationships, too. I started to treat it as a social experiment and something I needed to figure out.

You might try to find some gregarious folks who do things outside of your comfort zone. Find people with passions that are different than yours but not in a mediocre way where you will be bored and not interested when they talk. You write code and debug it and build up a mental model of how it works. You're going to want to find people with similarly challenging work and passions. It could be anything, maybe they like riding horses, magnet fishing, riding ATVs, camping, shooting, goofing around on a podcast, rock climbing, ballroom dancing, sewing, or painting. Maybe they're just funny and make you laugh and you appreciate the hours of hard work and their ability to craft and weave an interesting story and nail it with a punch line. Find a friend that will call you up on a Saturday and get you to do something you haven't done before. Some of my best memories with friends are of them pushing me out of my comfort zones and me pushing them out of theirs. If that is too far of a reach, I've found working on open-source software gets you into a community and it's not that far of a stretch to make friends in those communities. I met a lot of people through the Asterisk PBX community decades ago. I couldn't value any of this though until I solved my first problems first.

I don't know if any of my advice is helpful or resonates. I am absolutely not an expert. I'm just another person slinging code, trying to find my wallet or keys in my house, living on this rock that is hurling through space at 1.3 million miles per hour.

My personal email is in my profile. Don't hesitate to reach out to me either.


> I too am not the best at maintaining relationships. My brain has issues with object permanence.

Funny that you mention this, because this concept of "permanence" is something I've just recently been able to attach a word to. I definitely struggle with both object and a sort of emotional permanence, where I have trouble relating to anything that isn't within my current time and space domain. In a way, I feel there is a deep truth here, that indeed nothing exists outside of the present moment. Everything is impermanent. The trouble is integrating this with a normal human existence with interpersonal connections, where we need to maintain some level of social consistency to form any kind of lasting relationship.

Interesting perspective of separating the biological system "you" from a kind of meta-management "you" though. I tend to identify my "self" with the biological body/brain system, and that might be why any kind of meta-programming seems unnatural/untrue in some way. Thank you for the insight.


This is one of those few posts that i feel like I’ve posted myself while sleepwalking:)

I feel your pain, bro. At least to the degree possible via writing.

I’ve been there and partially still am.

I haven’t got my sh* together. And haven’t even figured out for sure what i wanna do with my life. Or better say - what else/next I am going to do with it.

And you know what, a substantial (if not most) part of the so called successful people you see on the internet - neither.

I promised myself not to pretend anymore that I have. Not to lie to myself and others when possible.

The good thing is that you have something inside you that craves for a change. It cannot take it no more.

I would focus on this something first.

> no idea what I even want to change

Here you go! There’s a force inside you that wants to change your state of being.

And this has giant meaning for you. Otherwise you wouldn’t bother posting here, right?

So why don’t you start respecting and nourishing this part of you first?

You have nothing to loose, as your other parts didn’t have any luck finding any meaning anyway, did they?

This is what helped me to climb out of the deep black hole i once spiraled down into.

Not to the happy life, but at least to the level when I was motivated enough not to miss an amazing wife god sent my way and start a family.

This has not solved the “void” issue for me. No happy end here, sorry.

But this and having a baby pushed me out of my comfort zone in a good, even though very mentally and physically challenging, way.

Next big step up from the void for me was working with psychotherapist. Although I’ve spent quite an effort finding the “right one”.

This hasn’t made me happy either, sorry :)

But it helped me to start learning to listen to my deep inner voice. The same one that originally screamed for help to get him out of the emotional, social and mental void I’ve put him into.

It helped me to start really caring about me, instead of boosting my ego or supporting my public mask.

It helped me to start recovering that intimate connection with myself most people suggesting to solve such issues by healthy diet or Stoicism teaching take for granted.

I keep learning. And my wifi signal from this inner self is still weak, connection keeps interrupting :)

But at least I am at the point where those surface level meditation/hobby/gym/books/sleeping advice start making some sense to me. And start having some positive effect.


You seem like a person I can relate to. I felt way you do too, only I had a wife and kids. Then I burnt it all down and went to prison by allowing escapes/shortcuts to become habits, habits replace actual living, and ultimately prison. Let me give you my ex-con wisdom.

1. You are worth getting to know. You are worthy of friendship. This isn't a medium for it, but in another medium I would love to sit down with you and understand you. The fact that you are self aware enough and motived enough to post this here interests me in your story.

2. You are worthy of being loved! I 100% can see from this post a human being that is worthy and deserving of that!

3. You have to NOT make decisions for other people. That isn't fair. Instead of developing healthy relationships where I interacted with people, I instead interacted with made up versions of them in my head, often with the conclusion I wasn't worthy of bothering them/taking their time, or in the case of my spouse, being 100% fully honest with them for the sake of avoiding difficult discussions (that we could have both grown from if I had given us that opportunity). STOP. Let them decide if they want to answer your phone call/email/however you kids are communicating these day. Never make decisions for them.

Case in point, I almost didn't call my son on Thanksgiving because he would be with my exs family and I didn't want to make it awkward. But guess what, if he doesn't want to he doesn't have to answer the phone. But if I don't call, I take away him getting to make that choice. I called and he told me how he was making my special 'secret recipe' that I had taught only him so that I was still a part of his Thanksgiving. My Thanksgiving went from incredibly horrible to having a bright spot because I DIDN'T MAKE THE CHOICE FOR HIM. Let people choose, don't choose for them by not communicating.

4. This is it. It's our only life. You want it to be a movie or some great novel. But you probably aren't going to save the world or alter the course of history. But that's OK. You can still choose, are you the hero or the villain in YOUR story? And this is enough. It's no just enough, it's NEEDED.

5. The universe is chaos and indifference. Everyone you know or care about will die one day. Anything you build will barely outlast your lifetime. Today is EVERYTHING. Your approx. 60 trips around one yellow dwarf star out of the 200 billion trillion stars is it. If I offered you a trip to visit only Paris for two weeks would you pass it up because there are 10,000 other cities and only visiting one city isn't enough? That because the trip offered is only 2 weeks and you can't accomplish everything you want in 2 weeks it isn't enough time and not worth taking? Heck no, you would take the trip to Paris. But somehow an unbroken chain of life, driving itself to survive over hundreds of millions of years, leading to your unique chance to experience your life is not enough? Come on dude, you are a little inflated on what constitutes 'enough' is.

Look at your life differently. It's not only enough, it's MORE than enough. It's a LIFETIME worth of experiences. You think it's not much, but when I was locked in a prison cell the size of an elevator, with a cellie, bunk bed, lockers, desk, chair for over a year because of COVID, with all normal rights like going outside denied because COVID I would close my eyes and go back to even my most mundane previous days like they were a day spent at Disneyland. I could choose what to eat? I could choose to have hot water to make tea/coffee? OMG was I spoiled in those dream days.

6. Be present. But that means more than all the self help BS. It also means be 100% honest. People deserve that, you deserve that. It's ok to be you. People don't have to accept you. I tried to have everyone like me. I learned in prison not only can you make have everyone like you, most people aren't worth even knowing you.

7. Strange one here. Drink less coffee. It's numbing, it sharpens your mind in non-social directions but dulls social/emotional needs. It is amazing when I need to be a code monkey drone or weight lifting beast, but adds nothing to me living a fulfilled life. Caffeine to motivation is the equivalent of fast food to nurishment. It will keep you going, but it's not going to take you where you want.

8. Look people in the eyes. Shake their hands when you see them. Be happy to see them. Call them by their name. Let them know that they are seen. The downside, so many hungry/thirsty people who are hurting and unseen will try to latch on to you because you see them when most don't. So be honest with them don't fake friendship is you don't feel it with someone.

Mainly you are worthy and deserving of friendship and love, and unless you happen to luck out probably won't find either until you understand that. You have no right to make choices for others, so call them, ask them to do things, give them the opportunity to make choices for themselves. You won a free trip to experience the universe as adantical. Be grateful for that and not upset you didn't get to be Brad Pitt or someone else. Others deserve to have the person known as adantical at HN treat them with 100% honesty, and you deserve to be able to be 100% to who you are. This doesn't mean everyone has to accept your or what you say, don't expect that. Others get to be honest too, and their honesty is a gift to you, when again, dishonesty could be easier in the moment. Shortcuts to goals, including simple things like stimulants such as coffee, or finding community in places like HN that ultimately can't develop to what you want, can not be allowed to develop from shortcuts to habits, and from habits to completely replacing those things you need.

Finally, as we told each other in prison 'Keep your head up!'


I’d be really interested to hear your story. Good work getting to what looks like a healthy place in life.


I agree with virtueman's comment here that there is something messed up with environment (using that term quite liberally here) where you have material luxury but can't quite share it with anybody. However in every problem lies an opportunity. And allow me to share it as how I -an outsider- sees it.

When you say `software developer quickly approaching 30 with no direction in life, no hobbies, no friends, no family, and no idea what I even want to change.`

I see the following facts: a person who can earn a reasonable amount of money to live well and who does not have pressing personal obligations to others at this point in their lives. This allows this person to do things that a lot of people can't do and as such he/she should try somethings that are well suited for said person as described by the facts.

Some actionable ideas: 1. Volunteer - ideally through physical labour. 2. Leave the country you are in work in a different place/culture. 3. Leave the country you are in and travel while keeping your job (this requires you have a remote job) 4. Explore new hobbies. People typically make friends around shared interests. 4.1 - eg: photography but of type that requires doing something new like, sports photography - forces you to go out to events and capture action; astrophotography - forces you to go out explore the night skies and be a part of that group; macro photography - forces you to see things that most people miss, Microscopic photography - get a microscope, stick a camera on it and stick a small piece of whatever you are having for lunch or dinner under it; bird photography - forces you to chase birds and the next thing you know you will meet interesting members from the Audubon society. 4.2 Arts: drawing, painting, sketching.. take some classes - ideally in person- see if anything sticks. 4.3 Creating something with your hands: wood working, ceramics etc 5. Last but not least - start listening to your inner voice. Most people feel lost (including myself when I was - more before than now) when for one reason or another have stopped listening what they wanted. I think this typically happens during childhood/yound adulthood and progresses over time to a point where what you want is completely overshadowed by your conceptions of what the society/environment/culture thinks of what somebody your age/type should want. This is usually years in the making and take some time to undo but with perseverance can be undone. Start small with little things like lunch - what do you want for lunch and not what you should be having for lunch. ask yourself such questions at various time during the day everyday to see if there is an incongruence between what you are doing in that moment / timeframe and what you want to do ideally (even if its impractical). this is how you listen yourself and over time learn to listen to you 'voice'

Good luck and the best is most definitely yet to come for you!


Thank you for this perspective. Reading your comment and revisiting my own perspective through an "outsider's" lens has given me something to think about. The facts are true, and the objective view feels very valid to me. I am realizing I have some work to do in reconciling the two.

> I think this typically happens during childhood/yound adulthood and progresses over time to a point where what you want is completely overshadowed by your conceptions of what the society/environment/culture thinks of what somebody your age/type should want.

I suspect this is true as well. At some point the signals became so deeply entangled that now it's difficult to know which are originating internally vs from the external environment.


> In my early twenties, I would self-medicate with various addictions

Which ones? Some drugs are more social than others. On the other hand, your problems sound pretty deep-seated and you probably won't relax enough to bridge that gap with recreational use. You'd probably be better with a therapeutic approach.

> Setting personal goals is even more hopeless when at the core, I just feel empty. Every time I try to set even small goals for myself (starting personal projects, hobbies, etc.)

I don't think 'deciding' to have a hobby ever works that well. It is perfectly normal to get interested in something, try it out, and then lose interest after the initial thrill has worn off. But drive comes from being obsessed by something even if you're useless at it. Avoid comparing yourself to others, which is a huge problem in this age of social media. Your solitary tendencies are an asset here in that you can take time to get really into something that fascinates you. It's fine to find this late or be lost along the way.

> [...] gravity pulls me back into the void. Any sort of direction or intention feels like trying to build a house of cards on a non-existent foundation.

It sounds very much like you're judging your efforts on the foreseeable outcome, and lacking depth/experience that outcome doesn't seem that great. Don't worry about it. It's perfectly OK to just please yourself, and even if all you ever work on are simple things, those might be the useful examples someone else desperately needs. Don't worry about the outcome, do it because you like it. Being goal-oriented is not the only way to go and tbh I think it's massively overrated.

Some of that is cultural. One approach you should consider is trying out a different culture for a while to see if you like it. Moving to a different country for a while is the closest thing there is to a life reset button. You have to deal with people because you don't know your way around, to the point of perhaps needing language classes. And you have to work differently at it because you'll need to meet people across linguistic and cultural gap, so you'll get a lot of practice telling your backstory and answering the kind of predictable questions about it (from superficial to serious and thought provoking). It's totally OK to be kind of awkward in this situation. In general it's fine to be awkward as long as you're nice. You'll also be able to practice listening and asking other people about their lives, and making it easier for other awkward people to communicate with you.

Having a solid economic situation gives you a huge head start. Figure out the logistics, pack a bag, and head off somewhere - don't overthink it, just follow your whims. If your first whim isn't that rewarding, try somewhere else. Just go be a part-time tourist for a while and immerse yourself in some different environments until you stumble on something you really like.


Read the Unabomber manifesto


[dead]


> "The strong believer is more beloved to Allah than the weak believer, but there is goodness in both of them."

Just a minor correction: the above is a quote of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), not a verse from the Qur'an.


> All of these things are really important, necessary, take effort, and are awesome. But they are not the point of life. They’re meant to aid the point of life.

There is no point in life bro. :)


If you sincerely sit with this you'll realise it can't be true :)




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