> I have an index with a ton of room. I've tried a quest 2. It all still kind of sucks.
If that's true, why? I'm especially curious about your complaint regarding "very limited freedom of movement" when you claim to have a large physical space for VR. VR has lot of problems, but that is a very strange complaint. Which games or apps did you experience this in?
Pretty much all vr games are just an illusion of freedom. Physically walking is rarely particularly useful aside from idle curiosity of getting a slightly different vantage point or getting behind cover in a shooter. Real movement happens on point and click teleportation or some of the other fake locomotion schemes. I don't think I've ever moved with any sort of... conviction. It's always just a couple steps in any direction, almost always fairly slowly.
> Physically walking is rarely particularly useful aside from idle curiosity of getting a slightly different vantage point or getting behind cover in a shooter.
This is not an illusion of freedom of movement, but it's actually real freedom of movement vs sitting on a chair and getting an avatar to do it via a controller.
> Real movement happens on point and click teleportation or some of the other fake locomotion schemes.
I think this is your problem. Stop using teleport and actually move. You can get feet trackers to bring more immersion, but nothing kills immersion more than teleportation.
> Stationary games like beat saber don't count.
Why wouldn’t it count? I’m pretty sure it does just like ping pong and boxing.
> I don't think I've ever moved with any sort of... conviction. It's always just a couple steps in any direction, almost always fairly slowly.
I think it's highly dependent on your setup and game. imo playing Quest 2 wireless helps a lot. If you have a lot of physical space for VR, but you fail to actually use it; it defeats its purpose. It's akin to complaining about the lack of tactile feedback in a video game, when you have both vibration and sound turned off.
> I think this is your problem. Stop using teleport and actually move. You can get feet trackers to bring more immersion, but nothing kills immersion more than teleportation.
Nope, that's not a real choice. I have 10m^2 of free space, which is far more than the average person has, but its still not enough. I also can't move very quickly. Running in VR is not advisable, but walking in video games sucks. Go to a VR warehouse and watch people play with a warehouse scale game with no physical limitations. They still just kind of walk around slowly.
> Why wouldn’t it count? I’m pretty sure it does just like ping pong and boxing.
I already got the standing still experience with the wii. I mean its fine, those games are among the best vr has to offer. Wii boxing and table tennis was also solid. But I'm not going to trick myself into believing that its substantially different than what we had before. Were it not for the head motion tracking, these games could be played on a TV. I can play beatsaber expert+ levels without wearing the headset so long as there aren't walls to dodge. The headset isn't adding much. It's just that motion detection remains a fun gimmick.
> I think it's highly dependent on your setup and game. imo playing Quest 2 wireless helps a lot. If you have a lot of physical space for VR, but you fail to actually use it; it defeats its purpose. It's akin to complaining about the lack of tactile feedback in a video game, when you have both vibration and sound turned off.
It's more like someone trying to convince you that video games are completely different with vibration, when in fact, they're more of a nice touch.
> Nope, that's not a real choice. I also can't move very quickly.
That sounds like a personal issue, and not a VR problem.
> Running in VR is not advisable, but walking in video games sucks.
There's obviously not enough space to run, but that's not to say that you can't move quickly within your designated physical space. It's not like you can't run in place, or buy a movement rig either.
> Go to a VR warehouse and watch people play with a warehouse scale game with no physical limitations. They still just kind of walk around slowly.
1. Those games usually have 1st time players or players not familiar with the levels. Of course, they're going to move with caution.
2. Run & gun doesn't work in reality. In real life, you can't effectively shoot while running or moving fast.
3. Contrary to your personal experience, people do run in those games when they have familiarity with everything.
> I already got the standing still experience with the wii. But I'm not going to trick myself into believing that its substantially different than what we had before.
I can't help to think that this is just disingenuous. 6DOF VR is no where near comparable to Wii games. With Wii, it doesn't track your position so you can play everything sitting on a couch; the amount of movement needed isn't as drastic. It also doesn't fully envelop you visually. This is just a really bad argument. Beat Saber and other VR "single room" games like ping pong still count for movement.
> It's more like someone trying to convince you that video games are completely different with vibration, when in fact, they're more of a nice touch.
That's a bad analogy to VR because vibration is no where near as immersive, which is why I mentioned sound in mine.
This is going no where. We'll just agree that we're probably never going to reach consensus. imo the issue is that for unknown reasons, that are likely personal, you have problems with moving your body which is the real underlying reason for your issues with VR.
I find its a tiring gimmick that is just being reused in every game. The novelty is less for every subsequent title. People like fast movement and action. Nobody walks in games. People won't like game design that encourages slow walking for long. Your human meatbag is not particular dexterous and it shows in the VR games coddle you with their enemy design. And the experience of shooting and taking cover is very hard to differentiate in VR across titles.
I think classic controller games will end up being a popular format for VR when the motion control gimmicks wear off.
> People won't like game design that encourages slow walking for long.
You don't have to do "slow walking". By default the controller included in almost every VR platform allows you to move faster if you want within an VR FPS game. Anything available in a pancake game is also available for VR so I still don't understand this complaint. If you want more immersion, then you can get a movement rig like KatVR or run in place with Vive Sensors using NaLo.
> Your human meatbag is not particular dexterous and it shows in the VR games coddle you with their enemy design.
I would disagree. It works just fine, because it's actually easier to aim with a blaster in your hand vs indirectly with a mouse. If you have issues with hand eye coordination, that is not an issue with VR itself.
> And the experience of shooting and taking cover is very hard to differentiate in VR across titles.
Because the actual physical mechanics of taking cover doesn't change. The only reason it's different in 3rd person games is due to the controls. Again, I don't understand this complaint unless you just don't like physically moving.
> I think classic controller games will end up being a popular format for VR when the motion control gimmicks wear off.
I feel that this is only true for anyone who have issues with physically moving their body. I don't feel that this applies for most of the populace. Then again I could be wrong.
VR does have many issues and problems, but the issues you bring up seem more like personal ones.
> You don't have to do "slow walking". By default the controller included in almost every VR platform allows you to move faster if you want within an VR FPS game. Anything available in a pancake game is also available for VR so I still don't understand this complaint. If you want more immersion, then you can get a movement rig like KatVR or run in place with Vive Sensors using NaLo.
You can but its not really advisable. Games are not designed to work like this. They might not break, but its contrary to the design of the game and will harm the experience in numerous little ways.
> I would disagree. It works just fine, because it's actually easier to aim with a blaster in your hand vs indirectly with a mouse. If you have issues with hand eye coordination, that is not an issue with VR itself.
It is undeniably easier to aim with a mouse. There's simply no question and you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. As someone who can shoot decently irl and tap heads with a mouse. Alyx is yet again another example of this. Enemies don't move fast for the explicit reason that its pretty hard for most people to shoot a moving target with a gun. It's very easy for someone familiar with a mouse to do so. I would bet that most games adopt a heavy amount of aim assist in he near future.
> Because the actual physical mechanics of taking cover doesn't change. The only reason it's different in 3rd person games is due to the controls. Again, I don't understand this complaint unless you just don't like physically moving.
The controls are incredibly important. They are your interface to the game.
> I feel that this is only true for anyone who have issues with physically moving their body. I don't feel that this applies for most of the populace. Then again I could be wrong.
I think you are wrong, given the decline of health and fitness, but aside from that, we shall see again.
> You can but its not really advisable. Games are not designed to work like this. They might not break, but its contrary to the design of the game and will harm the experience in numerous little ways.
No, it won't. It works as designed in VR. This is a completely baseless claim.
> It is undeniably easier to aim with a mouse.
No, it isn't because it's not natural or intuitive compared to pointing a firearm with a laser pointer. There have man machine, industrial engineering studies surrounding this.
> The controls are incredibly important. They are your interface to the game.
Yes, and something to mirror real life's physical objects and environments is a lot more intuitive and natural. Again, you have a completely baseless claim.
I'm very confident that your opinion of VR highly tied to your personal dislike of physical movement. That is not an issue with VR, that is just your personal preference.
If that's true, why? I'm especially curious about your complaint regarding "very limited freedom of movement" when you claim to have a large physical space for VR. VR has lot of problems, but that is a very strange complaint. Which games or apps did you experience this in?