I love this idea. I travel full-time, and have no permanent residence. Amazon Prime has been a godsend...but, even that only works when I'm staying somewhere long enough to get something shipped in (I upgrade to overnight for $3.95 per item quite often), and in a place where I can have something delivered. Fedex and UPS do not yet accept GPS coordinates as a destination for delivery (my motorhome is often parked off the grid in the desert or mountains on public land). The ability to ship something to a 7-Eleven in the nearest town or along my planned route is just too wonderful to express.
I recently had to buy a new phone, somewhat urgently since my phone is my GPS/map/Internet/etc. and I'm lost without it, and was trying to figure out how to get one shipped in quickly. The one I wanted at the price I wanted to pay was not available with Amazon Prime shipping, so it was going to cost $40 to overnight it, in addition to the hassle of having to be in a specific location with a fixed address through the weekend and into next week. Luckily, a T-Mobile store had it for the same price, so I got it same day for only a few bucks more (because of sales tax)...but that's usually not the case. Had I needed an unlocked phone, or needed something not widely available, it would have been an ordeal.
In short, I don't know how many normal people are going to use this service, but I am going to use the hell out of it as soon as it is widely available.
>In short, I don't know how many normal people are going to use this service
I think many of their customers will use it simply for the anonymizing aspect. It just because significantly easier to order things online without people finding out.
Sex toys from Amazon come in the same packaging that your vitamin pills and toilet paper do. Nobody would know what you're getting unless they opened the outer box, which is something they're not allowed to do.
I kind of like this service because it doesn't involve any human interaction, which I hate. Whenever I get a package at my house, it goes to the mail room, where I have to make small talk with the package guy. Since I get something from Amazon nearly every day (yay for subscribe & save), this is awkward. Having some magical locker where I could get packages would be amazing.
Absolutely. It's even worse for the cheapo courier services that are often used -- in central London, these can be a 90-minute journey away, and keep the same sorts of hours you mention.
Yap. Just went this morning to the depot closer to my home which is around one hour away (and that's because I use the DLR, otherwise I would walk for maybe those 90 minutes you talk about). This for two DVDs...
I'm not sure if that's true. I have a subscription to toilet paper and paper towels on Amazon, and they often arrive just in the box of the product, with clear branding on the outside.
That made me think: if Amazon is putting these products directly in the locker, do they even need to wrap it in packaging? It surely would save them money and time, although then it's more checking on the part of the guy loading things into the lockers.
I'm not sure it would save them money. Packaging all the various stuff (in various shapes!) uniformly greatly streamlines the shipping process. It makes the stuff easier to store (in warehouses and during shipping) and handle. Bar-codes/RFID's can also be placed conveniently to speed-up handling.
Perhaps slightly off topic, but I was in a similar situation recently (a replacement phone was overnighted from verizon via Fedex and my motorhome was not at an rv park). I don't know if it applies to your problem, but I discovered that many Fedex stores will allow you to use their service to ship packages to them for you to come and pick up, like general delivery for the USPS.
Do you live in your rig full-time? What part of the world are you parked in now?
And, I wasn't aware I could have things shipped to a FedEx store. I've considered getting a mailbox at a FedEx store in places where I stay for more than a week or two, but so far have not. But, if I can just do a "general delivery" type thing to a FedEx store, that'd be awesome. Will look into it. Though, Amazon never tells you how they're shipping an item; could be UPS, FedEx, courier, DHL, USPS, nobody knows until you get the tracking notice. So, that probably won't work for my Amazon Prime shipments.
I lived in it full time for about a year, inspired by Tynan's posts on the subject. However, I've now gone overseas to Bali and left my Winnie parked in Maryland. It's actually quite a bit cheaper to live here and the internet still works fine :) Have you written up anything about your travels?
Cool. I still have a lot of the American continent to explore, but when I finish that, I'm waffling on whether to buy a sailboat and float around some islands, or fly to Europe and buy a motorhome ("caravan") over there. I thought I'd go for a year and a half, tops, and then buy a place in Austin or some other nice city. But, I'm 20 months in, and I just don't see any reason to stop. Every time I think, "I could buy/rent a place here." I start to get itchy feet and want to drive again. Even awesome places aren't awesome enough to keep me permanently content. I blog very rarely at http://nerdnomad.com and tweet at http://twitter.com/nerdnomad and post photos at http://flickr.com/photos/nerdnomad
I do, but I rarely update it: http://nerdnomad.com (and I have http://flickr.com/photos/nerdnomad and http://twitter.com/nerdnomad which do get updated pretty regularly). Instead of blogging, I've mostly decided to write a novel instead, so I'm working on a semi-autobiographical zombie survival road novel. I'm about 36,000 words in (that's about 50 pages, I think).
With the blog I began to find it difficult to think of things I do from day to day as out of the ordinary and worth blogging about. I know it all seems strange to folks who've never done it...but, to me, it's just another day and seems unworthy of writing about. I may give it another shot eventually. I'm in Detroit right now, which is pretty interesting and is probably worth blogging about.
Well, I hope to see you out there. In a few months, the home will be sold, and the class C will be bought, and I will be learning about solar, crappy internet, and living on the cheap.
Good luck. I'm planning to downsize really soon, either into a tow vehicle+travel trailer, or into a smaller class C motorhome. I may even buy a box truck or bus and convert it into a motorhome, depending on how much I feel like getting my hands dirty next month when I start my search for a new rig...it's the only way to get a really solid diesel chassis with good gas mileage in a smallish (24'-28') motorhome that isn't outrageously expensive.
Have you looked at the Dodge Sprinter? I think those are about 20' long in total, give you about 6' x 10' on the inside and ~25mpg. I'm actually crazy enough to think that's big enough if you can manage without the shower or any kitchen setup. Obviously you won't be hosting any parties in that situation however.
A van alone would not be sufficient space for me, but I have considered converting a van to a small motorhome (either a Sprinter or diesel Ford E350) and using it as my tow vehicle for a midsized travel trailer. It's a weird choice, but it would solve some of my problems with my current rig (a 34' class A).
I'm considering a Winnebago View or Itasca Navion (or Fleetwood Pulse), which are based on the biggest Sprinter chassis in a cutaway form. They're a little bit smaller than I want, but I think I could probably live with it, given the benefits. They tend to get 13-17 MPG. They're a little on the pricey side, since I'll probably be paying cash.
I'd really like to have something small enough to be comfortable in cities, while still being large enough to really live in with occasional guests (I may be a loner, but I like having the option of inviting people to come with me sometimes). Stealth campers (converted buses and box trucks and vans) lately have great appeal for me, since a lot of place I haven't yet visited in the US are densely populated cities...so, being able to park on the street in the city without attracting attention would be very valuable.
I have more stuff than most folks would need (I have a small recording studio, three guitars and a drumset in my current rig), and I have a 60 lb dog. So, we can't go van-sized in any way I can imagine, without giving up a lot of my music gear. But, we'll see how it all shakes out. I've begun to get serious about shopping lately, and plan to move into a new rig in October or November when I get back down to Texas (I don't want to buy a vehicle up north where I'm currently parked, since they take so much more abuse up here due to weather extremes; California might actually be ideal, since the weather is so kind to vehicles there).
Packets are usually delivered during work hours. That’s certainly a use case. (One of the reasons why packet delivery still sucks from time to time is that you often cannot be sure that you are home when the packet is delivered.)
One of the better (and easy) perks for a company to offer is really convenient, no hassle package receiving for employees. You probably already have reception and ops, so having a way personal packages and mail can be delivered comfortably to work (without inconvenience to yourself or the company) is a big win.
Palantir is an example of a company with a GREAT ops department, and they handle a lot of employee stuff. My friend is moving, and they're handling shipping some of his items separately, on top of normal moving arrangements; plus all the routine package receiving and forwarding they do.
But which state? If you're that mobile, you can choose.
My friend (who is living/working abroad) established residency in Wyoming because they don't have state income tax. It took him a little effort (he had to get a state driver's licence and register to vote), but it was a lot better than paying Maryland state income tax when he sold all his property and no longer plans to live there.
In my state, Pennsylvania, it is my understanding that the homeless are not allowed to drive or even to receive mail, because a mailbox cannot be used for the address on their driver's license, and they cannot get a mailbox, neither from the Post Office nor from a reputable mailbox rental business, without already having an address which they can prove is their residence. Therefore, unless the rules are different in his state, he is not allowed to drive, and if that's the case, then: How can he be a lawful resident?
"In my state, Pennsylvania, it is my understanding that the homeless are not allowed to drive or even to receive mail, because a mailbox cannot be used for the address on their driver's license"
I'm certain you're wrong about both of these assertions, in PA or any other US state. There are federal laws at play, and both of these limitations on homeless people would definitely cross the bounds of federal law. Also, they would be incredibly evil; pretty much designed to keep homeless people homeless.
Mail can be received, by anyone, via general delivery at any post office main branch in a city, and often several other branches, if the city is large. Mail is damned near a constitutional right (federal mail service is one of the few services explicitly permitted by the constitution).
A drivers license is somewhat trickier, since some states do require one to have a "permanent residence" within the state, and don't allow general delivery for that purpose, and some don't even allow PO boxes, though most do. But, Mailboxes Etc. and the like are generally acceptable for this purpose (I use a mail forwarding service for my mailing address for all legal correspondence, including drivers license and taxes). Incoming mail is also one of the services that homeless shelters sometimes provide to their clients, as part of the process of helping them out of homelessness (if you can't drive or get mail in a shithole like rural Pennsylvania, you're SOL when it comes to finding a job, and getting your life back in order). I'll also mention that the federal government, and many states, consider a description of your boat or motorhome as an acceptable "permanent residence" address, as long as a mailing address is also provided.
"Therefore, unless the rules are different in his state, he is not allowed to drive, and if that's the case, then: How can he be a lawful resident?"
So, you reckon I'm an outlaw, flaunting convention and decency?
My residence state is Texas. One of the reasons for that is that it has very relaxed rules about residency, making it more convenient than many states...a forwarding address works fine for all government purposes in Texas. Most states actually want to claim you as a resident, rather than trying to prevent you from becoming one. California, for example, is still trying to convince me to pay income taxes there, even though I haven't been back in a year.
If you google "rv full-timer domicile state" you'll find tons of discussion of the best states for full-timers (South Dakota, Texas, Florida, Wyoming), based on various taxes, convenience and costs of renewing and maintaining licenses and registrations, insurance costs, etc. I chose Texas because I lived there for seventeen years, and I spend two or three months a year there (more than any other state), so Texas is the devil I know and it's ethically probably the one I should be voting in and paying taxes in. But, I considered all the others, and if Texas proves to be ornery for any reason, I won't hesitate to "move" to South Dakota or Florida.
Thank you for the detailed reply. However, I am still fairly sure, although not 100% certain, that homeless people, technically, cannot have a valid driver's license, cannot receive mail, and they cannot, legally, do other, assorted, connected things, such as: have a bank account, own Internet domains, hold a passport, vote, or travel (via Amtrak and Greyhound). There is a big difference between the lofty ideals of our federal constitution and the practical nature of daily reality. Cities and states regularly get away with lots of anti-constitutional behavior, particularly against the homeless, partly because that segment of the population isn't represented by powerful lobbyists.
I am homeless, and so, my original comment was not merely hypothetical. I live in Philadelphia, which is, according to Wikipedia, the fifth most-populous city in the United States. Texas sounds rather laid back, but that's not the way it is here. Every day, I feel as if I am "an outlaw, flaunting convention and decency" because not having what's considered a "legal" residence is generally seen as a major indicator of there being something seriously wrong with me. Lacking a fixed address should not effectively make me a criminal.
You mention MBE. I just went to their website, and the first thing that catches my attention is a news item [1] stating that I need to show ID to send a package, via UPS, from an MBE location, unless I already have a shipping label prepared from an existing UPS account. On a related note, this reminds me that FedEx here doesn't take cash. Anyway, there doesn't seem to be an MBE in Philadelphia, but other mailbox places that I have come across all require ID [2] and most require me to fill out a form [3] which tells the Post Office that the mailbox provider has my authorization to handle my mail. It is impossible for me to (honestly, legally, or however you want to put it) fill out that form. Also, even if I could, somehow, get a mailbox, it would create yet another red flag on my credit reports, because the credit agencies mark, as suspicious, any address which receives mail for many different people.
You often can use a homeless shelter as the legal address for many of the purposes that you state in your above reply, such as getting drivers' licenses, etc. (I'm an attorney who volunteered on behalf of homeless clients in Washington, DC. Check your local area to see if there is a legal clinic for homeless clients that might be able to help you.)
It sounds like PA is one of the worst states for basic human rights, like the freedom to travel. Who knew? That said, I suspect there is some way to obtain a drivers license. You may have to have it mailed to a friend or family member. But, the right to leave is a basic human right, so, there must be some way to obtain a license without having a home. This homeless law blog discusses some possibilities; it's not specific to PA, but it seems likely there is some mechanism for obtaining a legal license: http://homelesslaw.wordpress.com/#comment-1496 (I also found a few state and county agencies in PA with mention of drivers licenses and other licenses, though no specific documentation on how to obtain one; I guess calling or emailing would be the way to find out).
I'm not an expert on PA regulations, but I do know that I was able to do everything I needed without a permanent address, including getting a passport, drivers license, car insurance (GEICO offers a special insurance class just for RV full-timers, which is a blend of homeowners and auto insurance), and the postal forms needed for mail forwarding services.
And, one more thing:
"Also, even if I could, somehow, get a mailbox, it would create yet another red flag on my credit reports, because the credit agencies mark, as suspicious, any address which receives mail for many different people."
This is definitely not true. Credit card payments might get flagged if the billing address is a forwarding service (though it has not been the case for me; I've had trouble ordering items shipped to addresses other than my billing address, but I've never had a payment refused because the billing address was a forwarding service), but your credit report will, in no way, be effected by using such a service. I promise you it will not "red flag" your credit reports.
It sounds like you've had a bad run of luck, and it's gotten you feeling like a victim on all fronts. It's understandable. I feel beaten down by bureaucracy sometimes, too. But, you do have some fundamental rights in the US, regardless of whether you have a home or not. Get the ID thing sorted, and everything else will start to fall into place. If PA won't help you get that sorted, raise hell until someone does help you; contact your local state representative or city mayors office or write a letter to the head of the DMV or the local newspaper. You have a right to have an identity. You can't possibly get out of homelessness without one.
Yes, when you change domiciles, the process is to re-register all vehicles, get new license, new plates, etc. The new state will require you to do all of that. You can't mix and match residences in order to maximize goodness (i.e. if Texas has high auto insurance rates, and it does, pick a lower insurance state for the drivers license; but use Texas for income tax purposes; and then use some other state for health insurance; whatever). So, you take the good with the bad (Texas pros: No state income tax, reasonable vehicle registration fees, conveniently located in the middle of the country for those times when you do have to physically be present; Texas cons: Somewhat high sales tax which can be a big problem when buying a new rig or boat for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, higher auto insurance rates than many places). Being half-in/half-out is sort of grey area...you probably won't get in trouble for it, but you may run into problems if you have any legal problems or have to file a major health insurance claim or something. Which reminds me, I need to get health insurance sorted. It'll save me money to move it to a Texas provider, probably, since California is among the most expensive states for health care...I just haven't gotten around to it.
I would definitely benefit from this. My UPS/FedEx pickup location is out by the airport and is usually an hour plus long ordeal that may or may not end with me getting my package.
I have the same problem, even with a UPS store 2 minutes away I need to call to organize the drop off at the store and pay a five dollar extra charge or its a hour and a half drive out to the depot and back.
Yes, and it has been running for several years now. Very handy.
In Japan, the customer doesn't have to mess with any lockers. In the convenience store (Lawson instead of 7 Eleven) there's an electronic terminal used for buying tickets, pre-paid cards, etc. The customer inputs the order code and key into that terminal to print a ticket. Then they hand it to the clerk who picks up the package from the storage.
Something similar has been around in Germany for 10 years now. The boxes there are not owned by Amazon, but by the Deutsche Post AG.[0] This allows competitors to use them as well.
It is cheaper to send a package to this locker than to an residential address.
You get an email and SMS whenever there is a package for you, and you have 14 days to pick up the package before it is returned to sender.
Way better than UPS, Fedex etc who seems to be completely unable to ring the door bell or who just skips delivery completely if they're busy. Of course, they are not too busy to tell the system that the customer were not home at the time.
The German version allows you to send packages by putting them into an empty box in the Packstation. Same for the Austrian version. Deutsche Post also maintains so-called "Paketbox"es, which are only for sending stuff.
The Österreichische Post AG (Austria) is testing a new system where they install a couple of boxes right inside apartement buildings, typically next to the residents' post boxes. When a resident isn't home they simply drop the unlock code in his post box and put the package in one of the boxes. (The package is obviously too big to be dropped directly into the resident's post box.)
Well, apparently the only one in existence is in Seattle (about eight blocks away from me, as it works out).
My guess is that the answer to "how soon" would be 'the second one of these boxes appears in a state where Amazon does not yet collect sales tax.'
That said, I'm guessing that Amazon's lawyers would argue that this is effectively identical to a P.O. box, and therefore totally exempted. At least, that's what I'd argue.
Yeah, but the law is always murky about what constitutes a "physical presence," and the interpretations vary from state to state. I'm fairly certain that if they started springing up all over the US, there would be a lot of debate about whether a sales tax was required.
In any case, there's no way Amazon would keep these around if they alone necessitated a sales tax, since the trade-off would be too great.
These will be undoubtedly owned by 7-11. It's a virtual guarantee of getting more people to come into your store that may buy something since they're already there.
When the package is actually delivered, the
customer receives an email notification along with
a bar code to his smartphone and heads to the
7-Eleven. There he’ll stand in front of the
locker system, which looks like the offspring
between an ATM machine and a safety deposit box.
The machine will scan the bar code on his handset
to receive a PIN number. He’ll punch that PIN
number and retrieve the package.
I don't understand the purpose of the PIN. If I'm reading this right, it scans the bar code on my phone and gives me the PIN, and then I enter the PIN to get my package.
Why doesn't it just give me my package when it scans the bar code? The PIN doesn't seem to add any security.
I supposed the PIN could be an artifact of the implementation, rather than a security measure. For the prototype it might have been easier and cheaper just to use some stock keypad-based lockbox, and so they have to tell you the PIN, rather than to do some custom engineering to hook the locking system straight up to the barcode system.
Maybe they didn't feel safe wiring the mechanism that physically opens the doors up to a network. If you can't access that system via the network then you definitely can't exploit it. It's the old "the only secure system is a disconnected one" mantra.
They can focus all their efforts protecting the other end.
I'm betting that the journalist that wrote that post garbled the message and that the PIN is an alternative to using the bar code. Some of us still don't have smart phones.
I am fairly certain its because the PIN unlocks the specific box your package is in. They most likely have only one scanning kiosk and multiple lock boxes.
Since they tell you the PIN at the point of use when you present the bar code, the PIN is not "something you know" from a security point of view.
Two factor authentication requires that you have two separate items of evidence to attest to your identity. The PIN in the Amazon system as described in the article is just evidence that you knew the bar code, not evidence as to who you are, so their system is just one factor.
A good way to think about it when considering a purported two factor system is to ask how many things a bad guy has to steal to impersonate you. In a two factor system, he should have to steal two things.
This is similar to what FedEx does with packages that can't be delivered. You can have it redirected at no charge to the nearest FedEx Office (formerly Kinko's) location and you can pick it up when it's convenient. It's like having a UPS Store box without having to pay the monthly fee.
On the other hand, Purolator will happily redirect your package to the nearest Purolator depot out in the boondocks. Out by the airport or in a distant industrial park in my case... it's almost like they want you to waste your time.
This seems like a no brainer, especially partnering with a ubiquitous local retailer.
I am rarely home when the majority of the packages I order actually arrive in my city. If they were to send me an email asking me if I'll be home on the scheduled day of delivery, I'd be more than happy to let them know I'm not, to save them the trip of trying to deliver to me when I know I won't be home. This has always seemed like a major inefficiency in the courier system that I've always thought they would have eliminated. I just can't imagine that I am an outlier, do most other homes usually have someone home so its not worth sending out an email to check? Can anyone comment on this? I think about this problem every time I receive a package, it seems like such an obvious problem easily solved by technology.
Once I saw that a package was set to be delivered the next day so I called UPS and told them that I wouldn't be home and that they should just drop it off at the plant for me to pick up. They said they couldn't do that until the delivery guy tried at least once.
It seems easy, but perhaps it isn't or at least it isn't cost effective enough. The delivery person seemingly isn't given a route everyday (or at least that's my guess) and for now it's too complex/expensive for UPS/FedEx to institute. Also, they are rushing so much and there are so many processes before your package is put into the brown truck that there are all kinds of timing issues. This Amazon idea may help.
Home owners should be allowed to put a bin like this at our houses that can substitute for the signature. Obviously the whole bar code etc thing isn't necessary. It could just work like old mail slots. Items can go in, but can't go out.
Well I think for most homes they just leave the package somewhere out of sight. The packages that require a signature or the houses that have no safe place to leave a package are probably sufficiently minor so that they ignore they problem.
They should fix it, but I don't know if either of the major delivery companies are nimble enough to.
> ...which looks like the offspring between an ATM machine and a safety deposit box.
The author evidently has never seen a modern transit station locker system. (Admittedly less common now that lockers have been removed from airports.) At Union Station in Chicago there is a wall of lockers that looks almost exactly like this; all your interactions with choosing and locking and unlocking a locker are done with the computer kiosk in the middle (which, in that case, has a credit card reader). Amazon is surely not using custom hardware for this (or at least, not from-scratch custom), just reprogramming what's out there.
They could do the same for big employers too - Microsoft, Google, Boeing, etc. You could get a notification that you can pick up your delivery after work in a locker on location - all without inconveniencing a receptionist.
Inconveniencing a receptionist is a non-issue for big employers, since most of them already have a designated shipping and receiving department. For instance, at NVIDIA, I can have a package delivered directly to my desk, the same way that, for instance, hardware parts and development boards are delivered to me from an India location.
A funny thing that's missing from this article is the payment aspect. It's my understanding that the 7-Eleven delivery system in Taiwan also handles payment — in effect, 7-Eleven acts as an escrow agent for Ruten, accepting both the goods and the cash before releasing either to the other party.
It seems like not having to use credit cards (with the attendant risks of credit card theft, identity fraud, false fraud alarms canceling your purchase, etc., not to mention cutting out people who don't have one) or PayPal could be a huge benefit. Less so for buying from Amazon, though, than for buying from eBay sellers.
Hopefully coming to the UK soon. This (well, ideally a generic multi-retailer version) has been to me an obvious business opportunity for years; if I had the slightest of relevant contacts I'd have been trying to set it up. Hopefully it will take off and we'll begin to see the real possibility of online retail.
That's definitely the challenge, but the advantages of last-mile depot collections as a universal service rather than the current 'system' of waiting for the missed delivery cards then trying to find a depot 20 miles away would be a major benefit and, I suspect, one customers would pay for.
Awesome. I think my use case is common. I live in an apt where UPS can't leave packages and I am also not home during the day. I get my packages shipped to my relative's house, but I know several people who just don't order things online much because of this problem.
This problem has been solved hundred years ago. The solution is called post office. Nowadays they were getting to expensive and therefore have been replaced in Austria by post partners like gas stations, or small super markets in your neighbourhood. Works perfectly.
In several Asian countries it's been like that for the past 10 years. Good luck US becoming modern. What else is gonna be news next, electric toilet? :D
books.com.tw, the Taiwanese alternative to amazon, also has this feature. I bet other online shops have it too. But you can even pay your taxes at 7/11 here, so nothing really surprises me anymore :)
A better system might be farming out the delivery to a special service that sends a package at any hour of any day. Amazon gives the package to this agency for a fee and they will deliver it to any gps coordinate at any time (but someone has to sign for it).
I recently had to buy a new phone, somewhat urgently since my phone is my GPS/map/Internet/etc. and I'm lost without it, and was trying to figure out how to get one shipped in quickly. The one I wanted at the price I wanted to pay was not available with Amazon Prime shipping, so it was going to cost $40 to overnight it, in addition to the hassle of having to be in a specific location with a fixed address through the weekend and into next week. Luckily, a T-Mobile store had it for the same price, so I got it same day for only a few bucks more (because of sales tax)...but that's usually not the case. Had I needed an unlocked phone, or needed something not widely available, it would have been an ordeal.
In short, I don't know how many normal people are going to use this service, but I am going to use the hell out of it as soon as it is widely available.