What's liberating about talking with strangers is they don't know who you are, where you came from, what you've done, what you haven't done, who you know, or what you're like.
You can say whatever you say knowing you can't be judged by or held to some constraint from the past.
If your views on euthanasia are changing, because you suddenly have a close elderly relative or an associate whose circumstances are changing, a stranger won't berate you for having attended church for most of your life, even though you advocated the church's ideals which included no support for euthanasia. You can just talk about that subject in the context of your current circumstances, needs, and beliefs.
That's liberating and likely to be informative.
If you want to try out or finesse a different political point of view, such as that capital gains should be taxed more or less, or the death penalty is immoral, or social security should be limited to people who have worked and paid taxes for a minimum of 7 years, you can try that with a stranger and just listen to what they say, without having to assure them that you are from a friendly tribe or that you have an open mind, because they won't know your income or your status or your voting record.
When you speak points of view in an anonymous guise, or at least, one that isn't tethered to any prior baggage, you gain an opportunity to refresh your understanding in ways that you normally don't get from people who have such well developed expectations about you that they can't really hear what you are saying.
The same is true in deeply personal matters such as affairs of the heart, and confessions of moral confusion and even complicity in crimes. For many people, it's not until they hear someone's completely independent echo of a picture they've painted of themself that they begin to see themselves in a different light.
The great thing about this process is it isn't limited to one stranger, in the same way that your conversations with your bff is limited to only your bff.
Strangers are everywhere, and once you know how to strike up a meaningful conversation with them, you can do it again and again.
If you've never had this kind of conversation with a stranger, how can you be sure you know who you are?
This is a critical element of why online discussion forums and anonymity are so powerfully liberating. You can discard the social masks you wear among friends and family, and try different ideas and viewpoints. There's no price to be paid at the judgment of strangers.
It's perceived to be significantly more difficult to approach strangers in the real world, and successful relationships seem to fix people into whatever patterns initiated it.
Successfully developing the ability to approach strangers in real life is more potent than anything online - it can be unhealthy, as with pickup artists, or joining evangelistic cults, mlm, and so on, but socialization at that level seems to be a common trait among highly interesting people.
> why online discussion forums and anonymity are so powerfully liberating
My interpretation of this phenomenon is that significant (but subconscious) physical and social constraints are not removed from strangers who meet in person. There is risk and danger, there is wealth, language and vocalic register, and there is sexual politics. Humans evolved with these sociological pressures and most humans understand and conform to them.
But on the InterWobbles, people can be very wrong, flagrantly ignorant and completely inhumane without the probable damage to reputation (real-world personal cost).
Until their identities are leaked, of course... Then they realise the reputational cost of being wrong-headed, flagrantly ignorant, and inhumane. And they seek forgiveness ("escape from personal cost").
The InterWobbles have released the bottled demon and given us the 21st century's InterWobble Edition of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.[1]
And there is a certain neuroticism that leads some people to review your post history before making a snarky comment. I have noticed that, but it's not the norm.
I sometimes look up peoples history before replying.
It tells me if I should reply carefully and nicely because someone is just having a bad day or don't know the language - or if I should just drop the reply and flag instead.
I like it, but it doesn’t feel liberating. It feels like you need to be very careful, because if you express yourself in a way that could be taken the wrong way, it will be!
But I like getting the insight into how many different people think.
Edit: typo
Online discussions lack tone of voice, intonation, etc. and any form of non-verbal communication which makes it really hard to judge the intention of the other person.
And of course pure anonymity makes it possible to be an asshole without having to suffer the consequences.
Consider the absolute freedom of 4chan folks. They can say literally anything, and land in good discussions whenever they choose, if they're willing to tolerate the noise. Can't really get that in real life except among really close friends.
Basically there are not many places you can take a premise at face value and just throw thoughts out without worrying about consequence to social standing etc.
That is partially what I like about 4chan. Nobody even really tries to be nice in the first place. Which, personally, is something I almost crave, due to constantly having to tiptoe around.
On the internet you can be whoever you want to be, including a total jerkwad. It's much harder to do in person, as the punishment is quite high unless you enjoy getting your ass kicked by a stranger.
Like someone else previously said, we need to invent a way to kick somebody's ass over the internet. Then we'll enjoy real time worldwide pleasant anonymity and thoughtful discussion.
um OT ...and i thought this post was about the story on goodnews, some days ago, somthing with 'slacker'-checkouts in dutch-supermarkets, for the elderly, having time for a 'natter' tcha ?! ^^
Also, while exploring new ideas one-on-one with a stranger, you already have their attention so you don't have to shout(or take an extreme position) to be heard. There is more room for nuance.
> The same is true in deeply personal matters such as affairs of the heart, and confessions of moral confusion and even complicity in crimes.
what came to my mind is the conversation I had with someone who confessed they would rather tell their secrets to Amazon than their neighbor, because Amazon is more distant. What I didn't consider then is that distance is a proxy for strangeness in humans, and that's why such inversion may feel natural. We indeed know very little about the people in Amazon, but where it fails today is that megacorps and their constituents know (or can know) a lot more about us than the neighbour.
I wish I had some really insightful reply that would expand upon this, but really I think you captured it beautifully. I can remember conversations at a music festival 20 years ago for exactly the reasons you said — in one or two nights I was able to “try on” 3 or 4 different versions of myself at a time where I was really trying to figure out who I was.
For anyone really, but especially as you come out of school and start making your way in the world that’s just such a powerful thing.
Thank you for reminding me of those nights, it really was a pleasant bit of nostalgia.
I'm a complete introvert, but this is one of my favorite pastimes. Just two strangers with no baggage. My close friend once joked that I attract random people for some reason, and I sometimes feel that she is right.
I'm pretty quiet, and reserved, but for some reason I always end up meeting people during my night walks and have had all manner of conversations, offers, and interactions. I think some people just need someone to talk to that won't judge them.
My recipe is the following: grab a drink from the nearest convenience store (ideally alcoholic), and set out into the night towards the busiest area you can find, and just watch the hustle and bustle.
Just a sample of the adventures I've had: spending a couple hours wandering the streets of Tokyo with a couple Danish tourists during their last night in the city.
Talking for a few hours in a park with an off-duty US military servicemen, after which he suggested we start running drugs from Mexico across the border -- no thank you.
However, one of the most interesting, jarring, and thought provoking interactions I had was with a young man, of obvious African descent. This took place in Bangkok. I was out on one of my night walks, and as usual stopped by a convenience store to grab a drink. I noticed the young man, sitting on the curb, if I recall correctly, having a smoke.
At the time, I was working in Bangkok as an American on a relatively cushy salary and high on life. So I walk over and strike up a conversation, expecting to hear about the adventures that led this gentleman to Thailand. So we chat for a bit, and I tell him about life in Thailand and working as an expat. I then ask him, "So what brought you out here?" He gave me a one word response, that made me realize how privileged I was. That word and his answer was, "war".
He went one to explain that his country undergoing some internal conflict, and he had fled to find a better life. Here I was, a relatively happy and well-paid American -- I really had no response other than listening to his story. We sat there a bit longer just talking about life -- two people from vastly different experiences, sitting on a convenience store curb and enjoying a chat and a drink.
I am fully capable of attending a gathering and socializing for hours or having long conversations, but it exhausts me and I need a lot of recharge time afterwards.
Definitely prefer six out of seven nights a week at home with just my family. Partner definitely likes getting out more, so she routinely walks with friends, etc.
Exactly, this sounds like a story I could have in my life, and I'm also a complete introvert.
I could socialize but basically my battery drains a lot quicker than my peers.
I love working out. As much as I love it, it makes me tired and sometimes, even when I want to do more, I simply can't.
Take the above example, and now apply it to human interaction. That's how it can be for introverts. It doesn't mean a person is shy or avoids social elements. It just means that it is absolutely draining. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, talking to another person or being out in public takes energy. I'm always trying to understand the situation, to not make any faux pas, to be engaged, and to enjoy -- and it's tiring. So I have my limits.
If I'm at a social event past my limit, I need to escape. I get tired, frustrated, and slight panic. Just get me home to re-energize and reflect.
My night time strolls allow me to control my exposure, while still allowing me to enjoy meeting new people.
If I have some free time, 9 times outta 10, I'm curled up with a good audio/book, playing chess, or gaming. But, I still enjoy and seek out human interaction. Hence my original comment to the post.
An introvert is "a typically reserved or quiet person who tends to be introspective and enjoys spending time alone" [1]. So I agree with you that it is surprising to be a "complete introvert" and to look for social interactions with strangers, even though they are 1-to-1. The people whom I met and who are extremely shy or timid would tend to avoid these, I think.
That being said, I can see how the poster would define himself as an introvert (avoiding social gatherings with a crowd), and be more comfortable alone or with 1-to-1 discussions (actually 3 people, since there is her friend as well). The adjective "complete" in "complete introvert" might be exaggeration though. :)
And it was this encounter that made them realize they're privileged, even though it must've been pretty obvious for all sorts of reasons, not to mention living in one of poorest countries in the world as an US "expat".
Still thought, must be quite a story in some circles.
In any case, wandering the busy streets late at night with a drink is a recepy for meeting new people. That is certainly true
Well, I'm OP, and as fate would have it, I'm actually from Detroit (born and raised).
If you do go, please make sure you have a tour guide. Downtown is safe enough, but if you decide to see the "real" city, you should know where you are going before you go there.
Edit: Just realized you made a comment earlier. Well, as we are discussing now -- I grew up in a low income area in inner-city Detroit and I am a person of color. I never really considered myself as privileged. It's all about perspective.
I did something similar to this at day in high school (without the drink) while at the bus stop.
The problem was that every time I felt that I was impersonating a new character, and all that broke the fun of talking/joking to random people once I met them again by accident.
Its true that while at the public bus (long travel time) you can have those same conversations, but beware the fake friends or what do you want from the relationship.
“For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”. Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others…”
Absolutely. But I've found that small talk sows the seeds for a much better landing. It's not something I find myself wanting to life hack away. Because often the small talk transforms within a couple of minutes or even seconds into something "Real" or "Unique" (quotes around those words not because I don't think small talk isn't real or unique, but what likely a lot of people might think. Basically, what I mean by "Real" or "Unique" is to say, transcendental.)
YMMV, but it's been my experience that small talk is a skill that you can exercise and has its own value, not simply something to be waited through until you can get to something of substance.
One of my good friends spent a couple of years selling grain silos to farmers in the American Midwest. I heard about this some years later when we were living in the same community again and able to get together for coffee once in awhile.
He commented how often the following question opened farmers up to a much deeper conversation that had nothing to do with grain silos. His opening question would often be "How goes the battle?"
Although he did well at selling, he is a person who is genuinely interested in others in a warm caring way. So I am sure it was his manner as well as the specific question. But I love the question as well.
How goes the battle? Immediately acknowledges that life isn't easy, that the things we struggle with are okay to talk about. However, if the person isn't in the mood to go deeper they can just respond with "fine", "alright" or "can't complain" and just move on without going deeper.
But asked in a genuine caring way, "how goes the battle?", invites a deeper more authentic response about struggles.
> Because often the small talk transforms within a couple of minutes or even seconds into something "Real" or "Unique"
I used small talk to figure out if my passengers had something interesting that I'd be interested in knowing about. Standard Questions -> specific questions.
> YMMV, but it's been my experience that small talk is a skill that you can exercise and has its own value,
"The most important thing about learning to talk to strangers is practice. Taxi driving gave me lots of new people to talk to every day." - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27835024 (submission: "The vital art of talking to strangers")
> For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”.
Not really. Most of the time, I am wishing that I did not have to talk to that person at all.
Somewhat related, in high school I took a photography class and on the first dark room day, we got paired randomly with someone else in the class to practice taking film out of the canister and a few other dark room things. The person I got paired with and I were from very different circles and would never have exchanged words if it wasn’t for this exercise.
We were only in that room for 15-20 minutes, but I had some of the deepest most genuine conversation I’ve ever had in that sort period of time. After we left the room, we never spoke again. Something about the safety of blindness made us feel comfortable with each other.
If I had instead struck up an AIM chat or a phone call with this person, I guarantee the conversation topics would have been very different. The physical presence, our actual voices, the absence of light…something about that combination made the experience quite profound for my young self.
That reminds me of the "deviance in the dark" psychology experiment - they were describing similar effects, sometimes even more personal, like strangers hugging, touching or even kissing if I remember correctly. I learned about this from this comic: https://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comic/deviance-in-the-dark
My wife wrote a book about this [0], which is a bestseller in our country and she gives a lot of talks and workshops (individuals/companies) where she found this indeed to be true. Once over the first barrier, people can pretty rapidly sink into personal and sensitive subjects. Often things you think; should you be saying this to me?
They have just discovered the value of sitting solitaire on a barstool. Random social interactions avoid echo Chambers and free us of algorithmic information influence.
One of the things I miss about travelling. Pulling up at a small town pub and meeting the locals. They haven't heard your stories a thousand times and you haven't heard theirs. It's fun, sometimes sad, always interesting.
If anyone is interested in practicing having deep connection in a structured format, there are “authentic relating” groups that meet locally and virtually that you might be able to get involved with.
I’m not affiliated with ART but I have attended their circles and find them helpful for satiating that need for deep interactions, especially during the pandemic.
Early in the pandemic, I learned of an app called Dialup which offered a service called Quarantine Chat. They call my telephone at some random time every day, and I am connected to some other random Dialup user, somewhere else in the world.
Most often, conversations never moved past the awkward stage. I've not accepted calls from them for many months now, but I did have a few interesting/memorable conversations on the app, from people in my own city, to people halfway around the world.
I have not used the app so I don't know about the settings available. However, if it calls at purely random times during the day, you may not be in a state of mind for such conversations. Whereas in a more "organic" setting, you have primed yourself for it and if the other party is happy to participate, it will probably be more mutually enjoyable.
Last I used Dialup, you subscribe to topics and can choose between different schedules with different frequency. This makes it predictable enough to work. You can always hang up when you get a call.
I think it's strange and sad that if you, for example, use public transport, there are so many people and nobody talks. Of course it depends where you live and I understand that not everyone wants to talk anytime, but at least where I live it is expected to not talk to strangers.
I’m glad it’s not just me. I enjoy deep conversations with strangers more than I do with people close to me, a lot of times. I don’t know what that says but I find the experience can be very enriching and cathartic.
I think generally it’s easier to have these kinds of conversations with strangers because there aren’t any existing “roles” or identities in the mix based on past experience. You have a lot more freedom to explore ideas when you aren’t tied down by certain interpersonal epistemological assumptions.
People just need to talk to someone who doesn't have ulterior motives, and without the need to maintain a relationship beyond the context of the conversation. Just being able to be honest without censorship, and to be exposed to direct criticism from someone who isn't afraid to hurt your feelings; just those things are healing and constructive.
As a counterpoint, I have found myself intentionally equivocating while talking about obscure programming topics because of my relationship with the person who I was having the conversation with and the fact that I knew that a lot of their identity was wrapped up in a particular position on that topic. You don't want to hurt someone who you want to talk to again.
Honest, deep exchanges with strangers can also be a crucible that finds people that you really do have a deep commonality with. If you're both completely unfiltered and still want to hang out with each other, that's a sign.
That’s why I love traveling in public transport (bus) during undergrade in india. It gave me opportunity to interact with so many strangers and also helped expand my thinking/ability to understand by listening to so many different experiences
It’s also what I loved the most about backpacking when I was younger. I started out so uptight and unapproachable with the constant new faces, but forced myself to socialize and eventually I became comfortable and a social risk taker. I would often spot others where I used to be (in my head) and include them in whatever was going on.
I sometimes think I could have kept going forever and be happy just subsisting except for all the casual drinking etc.
I'll try to setup a meetup group with these premises, see what happens. At this point in life I feel like telling younger (or not) people the things I learned about 'life' in general, maybe it's old news to them, maybe not. For example I feel age is the biggest lie/misconception we face sometimes, we are all 'kids' and at some point we get wrinkles and get ashamed and feel out of place, and younger people think we are different and 'settled' and the we discovered who knows what grown up/adult mysteries, while we are just old kids.
I think that this is one of the lessons from the pandemic as well. A lot of people have underestimated the meaning and impact of loosely coupled/superficial relationships. The small conversations we could have with co-workers and strangers that was impossible because of lock-down or which was avoided to keep contact to a minimum.
I know that some people prefer to keep to themselves, but as this study also underlines, the majority of people are social creatures and we thrive on interactions - even with strangers.
I always feel very awkward saying banal things in response to meaningless questions so I avoid "small talk" and even simple "how are you?" at all costs, often by hurrying to cross the street when I notice someone who knows me. At the same time I'm almost always very interested in what do others actually feel, think and know and would be glad to have a meaningful conversation on any (preferably non-personal) subject with anybody.
I think that makes a lot of sense. It's not often that you get to speak about your deepest feelings to someone with no strings or consequences attached. A stranger might judge you but at least you're not going to see them the next day. The same can't be said for acquaintances or friends. It's a shame that talking to strangers on buses and trains isn't more normalized.
My small talk often seems to be a deep conversion to people.
Somehow, I got told multiple times that I'm a friend or even their best friend, by people who I didn't think much about. Which isn't bad for me, but I always felt a bit sad for those people...
I say similar because the host is always the same person, but it's always an hour-long deep conversation with an anonymous guest about whatever they want to talk about.
I don't often listen to it because it's not something I can really leave on in the background (I end up paying too much attention to it) but when I do, I do enjoy it.
I feel blessed to have some unknown quality that invites strangers to open up and reveal deep parts of themselves to me when I am engaged with them for even the most trivial of interactions. Connecting with all sorts of people in this way has really broadened my perspective on life in a healthy way.
Unfortunately, I seem to have some other unknown quality that keeps people from making that initial approach. I am working on how to make that approach myself, but it often feels forced and I get nervous.
I don't see this as particularly surprising. We're an inherently social species that has an instinctive desire to gather as much information as we can.
It's a bit on the therapy side of things but a girl on YouTube named thoraya maronesy puts mics and cam to let people discuss whatever. Sometimes together, sometimes with other strangers. Worth taking a peek.
Actually, I'm not so sure it's obvious, and I have concerns about how the study is being interpreted.
People don't actually just go around talking to strangers, so if it was something everyone loved there must be a reason it doesn't happen more often.
I think this is a case where experimental or study context actually is really important.
If you're in an experimental context where you're either aware of the general scenario to occur, or that something unusual might occur, talking to a stranger is really different from out in the real world. That is, sitting in a lab room knowing that what you're about to do might be unusual, and is occurring in the context of a study, being monitored by researchers, is really different from being approached by a stranger with an unknown agenda at an unexpected moment.
Even the willingness to participate suggests a different scenario. The people willing to participate might be different, and in the very least are willing to do so in that moment. For instance, in the paper they asked people to approach others on a London train, but my guess is the people who would be most irritated by talking to a stranger (or having them talk to you) avoided the researchers entirely or declined to participate.
I think there are a lot of benefits to talking to strangers, but there can also be a lot of costs, and when it's occcurring in a totally unregulated environment can be slightly risky. I'm not at all suggesting people shouldn't talk to strangers but I think the study is being extremely misinterpreted. To me it's a prime example of how study context creates limitations to generalizability, something that should be discussed in introductory college psychology courses.
You can say whatever you say knowing you can't be judged by or held to some constraint from the past.
If your views on euthanasia are changing, because you suddenly have a close elderly relative or an associate whose circumstances are changing, a stranger won't berate you for having attended church for most of your life, even though you advocated the church's ideals which included no support for euthanasia. You can just talk about that subject in the context of your current circumstances, needs, and beliefs.
That's liberating and likely to be informative.
If you want to try out or finesse a different political point of view, such as that capital gains should be taxed more or less, or the death penalty is immoral, or social security should be limited to people who have worked and paid taxes for a minimum of 7 years, you can try that with a stranger and just listen to what they say, without having to assure them that you are from a friendly tribe or that you have an open mind, because they won't know your income or your status or your voting record.
When you speak points of view in an anonymous guise, or at least, one that isn't tethered to any prior baggage, you gain an opportunity to refresh your understanding in ways that you normally don't get from people who have such well developed expectations about you that they can't really hear what you are saying.
The same is true in deeply personal matters such as affairs of the heart, and confessions of moral confusion and even complicity in crimes. For many people, it's not until they hear someone's completely independent echo of a picture they've painted of themself that they begin to see themselves in a different light.
The great thing about this process is it isn't limited to one stranger, in the same way that your conversations with your bff is limited to only your bff.
Strangers are everywhere, and once you know how to strike up a meaningful conversation with them, you can do it again and again.
If you've never had this kind of conversation with a stranger, how can you be sure you know who you are?