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Survey: The average worker experiences career burnout – by the age of 32 (studyfinds.org)
88 points by pseudolus on Sept 20, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 73 comments



Hah. 32, aye. Riding that average!

Probably career suicidal (never admit it in your application) but honestly the thing I've found helps is just not caring about work at all. It's like the equivalent to acceptance in grief. Get the day done, look forward to the weekend, when you book time off make sure to book the following Monday.

I'll do the job as best I can for as long as I'm paid but if you think I'm here for any reason other than money to pay the bills you're completely delusional.

Watch the film Office Space, be inspired.


I think this isn't great advice for everyone.

I'm 31 and actually, I've gone through phases and got bored and miserable about my job (I have ADHD and this happens easily). The thing I've found that helps is to keep things fresh, and find a job where you care about the company and product and have more flexibility in what you do and are still learning and keeping stuff interesting. I'm learning Rust at the moment because I know just doing front-end stuff (I've done all kinds of stuff in the past 12 years, but at the moment front-end is what gets the money). Even doing more jobs using React Native and opening up the world of app development has kept thing interesting.

Also maintaining a work life balance, aggressively enforcing flexibility (I was straight up with my new employer that some days I am useless and just want to go for a walk, but I will work hard enough on the days my brain wants to play ball, that it won't be an issue).

Burnout is a lot easier in corporates because there is less flexibility and you are so removed from the people at the top and are much more of a cog in a machine, there are arbitrary seeming rulebooks because they require consistency, and that is demoralising for individuals. Basically the more corporate a company is run, the less I like it.

Once I lose interest I'll end up doing stuff that will end up in my being let go which has happened a couple times in my career, so maintaining interest and keeping things fresh in whatever way is absolutely imperative. Also the product I'm building is a factor for me - I've worked at companies where despite having a good team, what they're building is so mundane and dull I can't force myself to be excited by it.

Remember what excited you about your field and why you got into it. If that was purely money then yes, previous advice is all you can do really, but if it was a passion for your field, then keep feeding the fire and reigniting that passion by whatever means necessary. Sometimes you need a break, sometimes you need a change, sometimes you need something new.


> find a job where you care about the company and product

I'm an average person. I'm not qualified for those roles. I make websites in WordPress and I now hate the process of writing code of any flavour with such passion I'll take anything else that pays more. I don't have the capacity to learn some new thing on the off chance I go work somewhere that isn't just the same old.

Also I now work for a small indie company for the very reason of having more responsibility and purpose. You know what that led to recently? I moved all our kit to managed hosting in case I went through with offing myself.

It's burnout, not a bad day. I'd love to just take some time off all willy nillily as you say but that would result in a performance improvement plan and an eventual firing, which I can't afford right now.

I'd fucking love to go back to Sysadmin work but I've been out so long everything's gone cloudy - again, not qualified.

All these excuses and more in your nearest person with burnout :)


Man it sounds like you have some deeper issues and I hope you can find more meaning in life in general, but being a WordPress admin would probably drive most of us to the brink. Probably one of the most tedious and banal jobs in tech.

Why not start learning more languages and whatnot? What do you mean you don't have the capacity? I was a PHP dev back in the day and progressed to things like Python/Django, but there's a whole world of resources that are accessible to you as an existing coder if you wanted to skill up and take it to the next level. There were points in the last few years I was bored of coding and rarely did it outside of my work hours. Recently I started looking at Rust and it dazzled me into being excited again.


I dunno if you'll ever see this but if you do thank you. Calling it out has put it in focus, today I'm trying to appreciate all of the stuff I have done

For instance the CI/CD I set up is f-in cool how it just works. I'll start from there.


your hn karma is above average. And the average on hn is way above average for a for a non hn Sysadmin.


I think one can look forward to the weekend (or the end of the shift) but still work for other things in addition to money.

I mean things like enjoying your colleagues, be happy for a well done job, have fun with interesting problems, appreciate that your work is valuable for other people.

Yeah, those are not things you should accept _instead_ of the money, in general, but they count too.


You can, but the cold reality is that most jobs aren't like that. You work alongside the kind of people you don't want to be around, solving problems that shouldn't even exist in the first place, and doing work that isn't valuable to anyone except one of the managers up in the org chart who can use it to justify their bonuses.

Sometimes you get lucky and get one of the good jobs that tick some of these boxes, but most people don't get lucky.


- enjoying your colleagues

- be happy for a well done job

- have fun with interesting problems

It may be a bit cynicsl, but there’s your problem. It’s much easier to find jobs without these things that still pay very well.


Oh aye but we are talking pre and post burnout. Things are closer to depression (if depression isn't just straight up part and parcel) with burnout.

I have friends outside work, the problems are easy but tedious, I have access to the analytics of the sites I build and can see nobody uses them.

Burnout is like arguing with someone on Twitter, you're not convincing it otherwise in the moment


Paradoxically the message in Office Space is also, if you forgo the grind and act as you've describe, you'll actually get promoted and have a better career.


There's a bit of old wisdom in this, I suppose old jobs were mostly "just jobs". You go for the money, not for thrill or creativity. But post 90s college programming cursus felt like a door to neverending thrill.. the gap was a bit surreal.


David Foster Wallace wrote a great book entitled The Pale King that wrestles with the boredom and frustration of our modern office-work related lives. I’m not sure if I grabbed it from that book, but one of his quotes I enjoy is: "The underlying bureaucratic key is the ability to deal with boredom. To function effectively in an environment that precludes everything vital and human. To breath, so to speak, without air. The key is the ability, whether innate or conditioned, to find the other side of the rote, the picayune, the meaningless, the repetitive, the pointlessly complex. To be, in a word, unborable... It is the key to modern life. If you are immune to boredom, there is literally nothing you cannot accomplish."

I find him to be a breath of fresh air, in his books and interviews, in describing how miraculous yet constrained our lives are. It helps me not burn-out. I think.


I always struggle with DFW. I too enjoy his interviews, some of his writing - he always feels like he’s figured something out. The part where I struggle is when looking at him holistically, especially his suicide. How could he have figured it out and still commit suicide? To use Camus’s framing, “There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide”.

The difficulty of understanding someone taking their own life is made greater when that person was a role model. Their descent into the abyss was a personal journey, but the torch they’d been carrying was a communal flame. I find myself doubting what they said, worrying their flame leads me down the same path they traveled without deviation.


“There is a false saying, ‘Whoever cannot save himself - how can he save others?’ But if I have the key to your chains, why should your and my lock be the same?”

- Nietzsche

Requiring everyone to only present solutions which have personally worked for them seems like an overly-drastic way to limit useful human knowledge.


> “There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide”

What about consciousness? The nature of reality? Suicide feels like a trivial topic compared to these two.


Those are all violent, we didn't choose to be conscious, for reality to be as it is, to be born. Suicide is the only revolt against that state of affairs. If we ask "What is the meaning of life", it is sensible to find it in the affairs that keep us from ending life or to see examples of lives where the person didn't see a meaning to life and thus ended their own.

The second part is the root of my difficulty with DFW. If someone says things that matter to me, but then commits suicide, is that them declaring they don't think those things mattered? What that really means, the act of suicide, encapsulates all the violence of being brought into this world without choice and the search for peace within those confines. It is an answer, in a world full of questions, I suppose.

To give a construction I just was mulling over based on your response, I think the meaning of life is like a prison cell, whereas consciousness and reality are just features of the cell. Yes, we can ask "Why is a bed here" and it might give us comfort to know that it is so I don't need to sleep on the cold floor. But at the end of the day, the question of most importance is "Why am I locked in this cell?". We can only understand the cell completely by understanding what desires drive men to break out.


My understanding about DFW’s suicide is that he had recently gone off medication - cold turkey - that he had been taking for quite a while to manage his (severe) mental health problems and that was a primary contributor to the event. If anything, his suicide illuminates the fragility of many people and how they are truly teetering on a knife’s edge due to chemical reactions beyond their immediate control.

Before he killed himself he had written (at least a few times) about finding meaning in the companionship of dogs and how he was finally “happy” with his state of being which, I think, contributed to stopping his medication.


Is that why he never fired Michael? :)


I'm not a DFW person, but I'm assuming you're referring to The Office?

If that is the case, then Ribbonfarm has an excellent (and in depth) piece on how The Office portrays modern life.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/the-gervais-principle/

In essence, Michael never got fired because he is the graphite control rod in the reactor of capitalism. A clueless person that posture-talks to all, but is baby-talked to back. His class absorbs the hits for his sociopath bosses that come from the loser employees. He can't be fired because if his class was removed, then the cycle of strikes would start up again. He is a sacrificial galvanic anode, rusting away to save the ship.

At least per what Ribbonfarm says.

It's not a kind look at The Office.


I’m 32 and can absolutely relate to this, especially with COVID. I work for a FAANG, and the pressure to perform has increased significantly while working from home. It feels relentless, and the lack of in-person social contact with colleagues makes it worse. I know remote working is all the rage right now, but the lack of all in-person engagement has had a hugely negative impact on me and led to feelings of burn out.

Layered on top of that is an inability to escape with now. My family all live overseas, where it isn’t practical to visit them, and holidays are a complex nightmare right now.

I’m incredibly fortunate to have a job during a pandemic-induced recession, but man am I feeling exhausted.


Sometimes it feels like the managers have to flex just to show that they’re not losing control. We had an extra project to do during lockdown on Covid modeling, on top of everything else, as if we weren’t tired enough.


Too many companies are using Covid as excuse to do what they've always wanted to do and not get scrutinised for it.

I'll bet your company won't stop running some kind of extra project or workload even after all this is over, it'll just become the new normal.

For us, we're on "50%" across two projects (some on "33%" across three projects) which all have full time loads, expectations and deadlines.


> For us, we're on "50%" across two projects (some on "33%" across three projects) which all have full time loads, expectations and deadlines.

This. Not only the number of developers on our project was halved, but also all who remained are now expected to work 50% on another project. Sometimes the other project is a small one, but it still distracts a lot to have two Jiras to follow, two daily standups, two sets of planning meetings, etc. Twice the number of managers, but half of teammates. Agile be praised!

Seems to me that a frequent reason to start new projects is a change in management. Essentially, a new manager gets more credit for starting a new project than for maintaining the old one. So a new project is started, even if it does more or less the same thing as the old one. But the old project also must be maintained, because it is necessary to keep the company running, and it will take a few months, maybe years, until the new project can reliably replace its entire functionality. Plus there is the third project, because you sometimes also need to actually create something new.

Many decisions in corporations start making sense when you ask yourself "how would this be described on my manager's CV". Then you realize that the actually useful work would sound completely boring. But those things that drive you crazy, the change for change's sake, they usually can be described as "brave technological leadership" or whatever are the right buzzwords. And this is once-in-a-lifetime chance to get the "brave technological leadership in the middle of COVID-19 pandemic" achievement, so everyone runs like crazy to grab it.

Most of us already recognize it when developers try to do something in order to boost their CVs. "Let's (re)write this in the Newest Framework, preferably also in the Newest Programming language! There is no business reason to do that, and maybe the newest technologies are still full of bugs and miss many important features, but hey, a year or two later when the technology matures enough and the market is full of well-paying jobs, I will be the one who has a year or two of experience in my CV." The secret is, successful IT managers have been already playing this game for a long time.


Chapter 2 of “The Clean Coder” is about 4 minutes read and is the best answer i know of to this common dilemma.


Let them do the work then!


Damn! This hit home. Not 32, yet. But I can totally see what the OP is saying.

> It feels relentless, and the lack of in-person social contact with colleagues makes it worse

Yup, every meeting seems like people just going on and on, every conversation seems grim and people are always doing something on their laptop while you're talking.

The things which have helped me: 1. Morning walks, I was slowly falling into the cycle of waking up and opening up my laptop 10 to 15 mins later. Now I make it a point to just go for a walk for 30 mins, sometimes I'll get a coffee, I'll listen to music, talk to friends/relatives in a different time zone, etc.

2. Evening workouts. Especially outside for me. Join a gym, cross fit class, something. If you're not comfortable going to public places, I've had some friends who've had some success with the peleton bike, so it might be worth looking into.

3. Not having alcohol readily accessible. Having cold beers in the fridge, makes me wanna have a beer or 2 every evening. I just cut out keeping beers in the fridge and only put them in if friends are coming.

4. Meeting friends/acquaintances/colleagues. Make plans once a week, meet other people who you trust outside of work setting. Try to avoid discussing work and talk about anything else. In my experience the conversation doesn't need to be deep, but I feel much better after meeting and speaking to someone.


all four of these points are pretty helpful, healthy ideas. get outside and get moving, get some exercise, make it hard or impossible to drink by default, cultivate a social life separate from work.

another suggestion: if you've got a dedicated work laptop, when it's time to clock off, pack the thing away and stow it until it's work time again.


> I know remote working is all the rage right now, but the lack of all in-person engagement has had a hugely negative impact on me and led to feelings of burn out.

It's worth keeping in mind remote work doesnt normally require this sort of isolation. I'm normally able to see friends more often since i'm not stuck commuting.


But people at faang work so hard and have every social interaction including meals and sports on campus. So that is gone now. If you are an expat chances are your social life more or less revolves around your workplace anyway. So if you have to work from home that def. can be hard on you, even or especially with the extra time off, which you can spend in your cramped and expensive 1-bedroom.


I work for a FAANG in the UK and have not had the same experience, they have been very accommodating generally. Perhaps different teams within your company are different and you could look at moving? Hope things work out for you.


FAANG Europe and FAANG US can be quite different in terms of culture and work-life balance, due to the different cultures of people in Europe vs the US.

The expat thing is definitely real, as if your whole social circle revolves around people you met at work, you'll probably work more.

But yeah, there's substantial inter-team variance within FAANG so might be worth looking for a better fit for you.


Are you less able to tell what everyone else's performance looks like since you've all been physically isolated? I'm wondering whether it's recessionary pressure or whether they're exploiting the information asymmetry and implying everyone you're competing with is suddenly way more productive than they actually are.


I find this really helps not to get burned out:

- limit your work hours to something reasonable during the day, no excuses. Everyone has a different capacity. No point over exerting now, you are just borrowing from the future self.

- use pomodoro to take frequent breaks

- don’t work for bad managers, they are the leading cause of stress

- do meaningful things. If not now, strive towards that at least. Make effort to get there. Because often if your mind thinks you are locked into this position seemingly forever, it will start hurting you.

- exercise daily. Anything. Just walking for thirty minutes to an hour is good enough. This is crucial!


I just turned 30. Looks like I have 2 years of productivity left. I should put in more hours to get stuff done in case I burn out


Definitely not. You should preserve now your abilities and build up uoir health. Find ways to relax, release stress, eat healthy and do moderate exercise. You will a) delay or prevent burnout b) the impact of burnout would be less.

I burned out at 34, that was 8y ago. Now cant still do productive work more than 4h/day. And thats on a good day. Im lucky to have sufficient expertise and high enough hourly rate to pay for my modest lifestyle.

Meds and therapy help only so much. While some meds are available under social security its usually not very modern meds, so a good part of income goes to self paid therapy and more modern meds that help me be at least somewhat functional ans productive.

4y ago, my productive hours were 2h/ workday on good days. Or 1 day per week. I survived at that rate but couldnt afford necessary help to recover faster.

2y after burnout my inflammation levels were still so high that doctors suspected i had cancer. (Wasnt the case). I had to move to small town, close to nature, cut out all even the slightest stress factors from my life.

Of course if i could have avoided burnout or proper medical attention and time off after burnout it would have gone better faster.

Now it serves as info for others what not to fall into


Have you tried Modafinil? The 2h/4h workdays sound like what I experienced for quite a while a few years ago. Modafinil/Armodafinil changed that drastically. Focus is back, concentration is back, energy is back, and 2h is now essentially unheard of, with an average of 5 or 6 productive hours, and if I need to, I can easily do 8 or 10. It's like being 20 again.

It's a miracle drug for me. Strong effect, no tolerance buildup, few side effects. And it's dirt cheap, even on the black market.


Yes, stimulants work. No, they're not that bad for you. They're also very easily legally available if you know who and how to ask.

But we probably shouldn't need stimulants to have careers.

I think that's why you get downvoted for suggesting that people take drugs to fix their problems.

Source: I also take drugs to function with a career and am sad about it.


Many people view anything that affects the mind fundamentally different from things that "just" affect the body (as if a clear distinction could be made). I don't.

It seems to me that some consider it a form of cheating when you don't change your diet or the sports / exercise regimen, work-life-balance etc. I've tried changing my diet and different workout styles, they just didn't have the effect that stimulants provide. To me, it's essentially "if it works, it works".

What makes you sad about it?


Race to the bottom.

If there is a stimulant that only hurts your health a little, and it becomes popular in your industry, you will have to take it in order to remain competitive, because the workload will be adapted to the new standard.

> It seems to me that some consider it a form of cheating when you don't change your diet or the sports / exercise regimen, work-life-balance etc.

The difference is, if you later find out that some specific diet or exercise regimen hurts your health, you can change it. If you find out that coffee (or modafinil, in the future) hurts your health, but you are socially expected to use it, then it just sucks to be you.


Possibly, but we don't seem to see a race to the bottom, at least not yet. It appears that some people who want to push extra hard take it, and a lot of people who want to get to some level they consider normal and attainable. I've experienced very positive results, and anecdotally so have others I've recommended it to. Not "wow, I can work 10 times as much now", but rather "I have a choice how much I work now, I'm not hard-capped at an hour or two".


After over a decade of turning stimulants into code, I've just had enough. The idea that someone can do this for 40 years is absurd to me.

If it was possible to go into stasis, floating in a vat, hooked up to a computer, where your employer could extract optimal productivity from you... would you do it? How long would you stay in the vat?

Because that's how I feel taking stimulants every day to get my job done. Sure, I'm an effective employee. And yes, "it works". But I can't help but feel something important has been lost.


A decade is quite a while, I've only experienced the shift it can produce about 1.5/2 years months ago and have taken it regularly since December '19, I might still be honeymooning. I believe my life would've taken a very different trajectory had I known about it a decade ago.

I've actually thought about being hooked up to a computer and not deal with this failing body that has annoying quirks and issues and makes me see doctors. I'd love to try at the very least. But I'm self-employed and like what I do - not sure how I'd feel about it if productivity gains didn't translate into income gains very directly, which translates to financial security, which helps deal with anxieties.

Do you struggle with side effects that make the experience not overwhelmingly positive?


I use adderall mostly, not modafinil, but yeah.

It's all still "overwhelmingly positive" to set out the problem you started taking it to solve...

But now that you're making me unpack it, I guess it's because when I'm on stimulants I'm working. When I'm off stimulants, I'm resting but very exhausted from the stimulants.

It makes me into an efficient worker drone though, which is the problem I set out to solve in the first place. So... mission accomplished?

If I could somehow make the same money without having to drug myself, I think I would feel better about the situation.


The main point is to let the body recover and become healthier.

Im currently using caffeine (french roast, double cup espresso on the rocks) which provides a moderate boost and is available legally over the counter where i live. Lol

Pushing the body with meds, to work be able to work longer, may be just really contra productive to recovery.

From my background in chemistry, biochemistry and genetics, modafinil reduces sleepines and keeps you awake. It would be dangerous for someone with burnout as they wouldnt feel the tiredness naturally and wouldnt take time to recover. The research on its effectiveness as cognitive enhancer is not conclusive yet. Probably good for people with sleeping disorders not related to burnout.


Any recc's where to find on black market?


Just go to a doctor. Black markets are not worth the risk.

Ask around, read reviews, call the offices and be transparent about what you want. You'll find a doctor that will want to help.

Modafinil/armodafinil might actually be a harder ask than adderall just because they're less common. YMMV.


Thanks.


Dino Supplies works well in Europe.


I take a year or so sabbatical every four to five years. It has destroyed my ability to build a retirement nest egg, but I still love programming after 20 years in the industry.


I worked with a few contractors who had what I thought was a great solution.

They would work IT contracting 8-9 months a year and during the other months, would do another job. One case, the chap was a waters-king instructor and did that in the summer as he loved it. Another was a Ski instructor and in both cases, they enjoyed their side-gigs more.

For me, I thought that was brilliant, an ideal balance and best of both worlds kinda approach to the problem.

[EDIT funny spelling mistake - Ski instructor - not skin :-]


I knew someone in Canada that operated a snow plow in rural area in the winter. Then back to programming the rest of the year.


I am so jealous. But I've also only been making decent money for about a year now so maybe in a few years I'll be able to afford this.

What do you do when you do this? Do you travel?


I worked remotely from Brazil, Thailand, and Belize from 2009-2017, so during that time I guess you could say I was traveling, but mostly just enjoying the local scenery. Lately my travel scratch has been itched, so for the last six months I've just been sitting around the house working on hobbies and watching youtube. :) If you don't have kids and/or a mortgage you definitely should take the opportunity to spend 6 months to a year living in a country with a favorable exchange rate, like central america or southeast asia. I believe that you can't really get a feel for a culture until you've been there for at least six months and made some friends. It will transform your entire perspective of yourself and the society you grew up in. If you wait too long you might not have the opportunity again.


> As far as ways to combat work burnout, 20% of respondents now practice meditation and or yoga to relax when not working.

I go out and run a few miles. For the last week and a half, I couldn't go outside because of the smoke. It was driving me nuts. It cleared up yesterday, and it was a great relief to go out and run.


I am a bit older than that, not much, but I can totally relate. I think the key is to acquire the ability to find people who care. Who care about you, about your well being, your progress and see how you can play a role in pursuing the overall company vision.

It’s not like all managers are soulless number crunchers. They were like you once. There are the good ones who authentically care. We need to find efficient ways to find those people.


I'm over 40. I burned out while working for a megacorp - the stress got to me at the end. It was caused by middle management stupidity and my son not sleeping at night during the first couple of months of his life. It got me fired (I was looking for another job at that point so it was a godsend and there was a restructuring). This gave med 4 months with pay (this is normal in Denmark when the employer ends the contract after a period of time) so that I could get back on my feet and find work that I actually cared about instead of soul sucking corporate software job. At the end I just didn't care about what I was doing and the pointless office politics. I wonder why the HR didn't react on any of the red flags in my behaviour prior to this. Probably didn't care as I was just another warm body at the office.


HR was probably worn out too. They're just as human as you are. There's no way there's enough HR in a megacorp to spot those signs and I doubt they're paid enough to care.

At least you were in Denmark though. Getting fired in the US would surely have been worse.

> At the end I just didn't care about what I was doing and the pointless office politics

Has this changed?


Actually yes, it has changed. I do consulting and it's clear that my clients need my help. It's my own fault if I don't figure out the requirements and communicate clearly what I'm doing. Also every new client is making me learn something new and work on a different tech which is not boring compared to working on the same codebase day in day out.


I guess this is a COVID-time work confessions thread.. Under 35 here and yeah, it’s real.

Working at a FAANG. It’s nuts.

It’s almost like if you have a family the deck is stacked against you. My manager low key told me to come to work in our office (which is now open) so my kids don’t distract me working from home. (And don’t tell me to go to HR, we all know how that’s going to end up..)

The other senior engineers who try to be human by asking “how’s everyone really doing” it’s more cute than anything.

It hasn’t gotten any easier folks!

The only way I’ve found to survive here as a young parent is to just give up sleep. We’ve got some young kiddos at home.. no idea how folks do this, and no surprise at all folks are burning out and it seems like less and less people are having kids any more.

If you’re going through it, hope it gets better for you!


Move to a different team/company. Assuming you can get a job at Amazon, you can get a job at any other FAANG. FB and Google tend to be less mental with respect to work-life balance, which should allow you to spend more time with your family.

Alternatively, stick it out for a year, save as much as possible and then take some time off (although I hear Google is a really great place to retire).


A bit over ten years ago I was in my mid thirties, and working in a company that was acquired by one of our industry giants.

After the acquisition was finalized, all our products where put on the back burner, and we where all inn in on integrating our production as a feature in their offering for their next release.

Unfortunately for me, the part of the organization I was in, was minuscule compared to the size it would have been in the mothership. Which meant that the expectations of what my team could accomplish, was wildly inaccurate.

So for the year I stayed on. Every workday, no matter how hard I worked, the stack of unfinished task was always higher at the end, than at the beginning of the day. I was so stressed out during this, that if I wanted to fall asleep in the evening, I either had to drink or go for a run.

After a year of this, I managed to get a new job, and leaving was the best decision I've ever made. But getting a new job while struggling is hard, and I was lucky to pull it of, in hindsight, I should probably have started looking way earlier, before I was as stressed out as I was at the end.

Now ten years later, I'm doing fine, and the whole ordeal is just a bad memory. But I do know that one of my colleagues from an other team, ended up burnt out and spent at least a year on sick leave before getting somewhat on their feet again.

So my recommendation to those that are struggling. Take action now, rather than later. For me, leaving worked, but I'm sure that it isn't the only solution for everyone. If you think that there is nothing you can do, that sounds wrong, and you should look again. Maybe talking it out with someone else, either a mental health professional, or a friend would help figuring out the next step? I did not do that, and that is something I regret, I think that would have helped me handle the whole thing better.


I'm 34 and I just dodged a bullet. I was very close to burnout at the start of this year so I just quit. I've been doing small freelance projects and trainings since than and my stress levels dropped off a cliff. I work half as much for 80% pay.

If you feel that burnout is encroaching on you just quit and find something else to do.


> my stress levels dropped off a cliff. I work half as much for 80%

Good on you for taking action to change your situation! That sounds like a pretty fantastic outcome.


I'm definitely feeling closer to burnout than at any previous point in my life.

Since COVID started I've slowly been losing myself into workaholism. It feels like there is nothing else to care about besides work; I am single and while I had an active social life that's naturally very limited during COVID. Often on Saturday and Sunday I'm just waiting for it to be Monday, and at least once I worked through Saturday afternoon since I had nothing else to do.

All the extra work feels completely unappreciated. I got wrapped into a roller coaster of a conflict with my lead - within one week he said I wasn't performing at entry level, then was begging me not to leave the team. That just keeps escalating (it's dragging through HR now, but nobody is, according to them, going on a PIP). The experience is, I think, driven by COVID - my lead's mental health is degrading, and I'm suffering as a result.

I'm working hard, with no clear expectations, and no clear understanding of what the point of that work is. I was promised a new position when I joined this team, and I don't know if that will ever come (it's been close to 2 months since my lead and I can have a normal conversation). I am paid very well (yay, the stock is up) but there's no way to spend that money (clothes nobody sees? Trips to closed down cities?).

Meanwhile all my other outlets for energy are cut off. Most of my friends are either sliding into depression or screaming at me to somehow care even more about the political disaster of the day. There's no dating, there's no bars, there's no clubs. All the events I look forward to every year are canceled. All my spots are permanently closing down one at a time.

So there's only work, and the story there isn't very different from my friends; mental health is declining among everybody I know. Sick days are up, people are asking me how my conversations with HR about depression went last year since they're going to have one soon. Engaged as I am there are times I just want to walk out the door. Well, if there was a door. In practice that would just be switching back to my personal computer from my work one.

Frankly, I'm not sure how anybody is not heading to burnout. Either you are overwhelmed with other things (like childcare) and feel like work is killing you, or work is all you have but it feels hollow since there's no other life context to give it meaning.

I tried to take a vacation, it didn't work. I spent 4 days obsessing over what to say in the next wild conversation with my boss (which didn't disappoint, he was sobbing at the end). Sitting in a room somewhere else while everything is closed or operating on a very weird and limited basis around you doesn't feel like vacation.


Break your unhealthy relationships. Ie. find new team, boss, job before they tear you down. If you stay, find allies, go out in nature, learn to not give a f. It can take 1-2 weeks to wind down. Do it! You can find something physical, like swimming, jogging, exert your body and mind. At work, stop doing everything that doesn't have clear goals and expectations. Just wait and spend time on what you must do or direction that is for you. Make sure you've resolved what you have agreed to do, but nothing more!


Start with small steps - end the day with a wind down routine - eliminate stress factors where possible - become aware of what stresses you, what makes you tense - try to release tension - go into nature. Its not a magic solution but every bit helps - look up some relaxation/mindfullness techniques. Try a few. See what works for you. - do not dwell on potential future conflicts. Its extremely harmful. - if you notice such thoughts, figure out their origin thought or feeling. - usually those are fears or stressful experiences. - acknowledge them. They happen. But dont let them consume you - try having those in head conversations with a clowns voice or any other style that makes them comical. - do things that relax you even a bit. Figure out what works for you - appreciate the smal things in life. Like a smile of a loved one. - talk to your partner. Tell them how you feel, how it affects you. Ask if you indireclty also make them stresses and unhappy, apologize for this and try to take care of each other and support each other. - try to get medical help, check whats not right with your body. Soemtimes underlying or undetected conditions make things worse. Stress damages the body and the health issues spiral.


> somehow care even more about the political disaster of the day

I suspect the lockdowns and such have led to a large amplification of our political divisions.


Me, my friends, coworkers, etc, are all broadly on the same side of this political situation. I do feel bad the things that are happening.

However, there are many people who I can't talk to without them insisting I donate more, I call all my representatives, etc., etc. etc.

It makes sense when I think about it. We all want to feel like we can actually do something when we feel so powerless. I have tried hard at work, they pick politics. We need something to do.

But I don't need to be reminded how terrible the latest event is; I want to get away from the news cycle, not lose myself in doomscrolling.


now who never experienced that ?


> A recent survey of 2,000 working adults

I wouldn't call this statistically significant.


Depending on your results and how you select, even n=200 can be significant. At n=2000 there would have to be very strong biases in selection to invalidate the results.


Its actually quite a lot, a lot of papers have n=20 and publish. Even worse its often majority students of the university.

So i wouldn't complain about n number here.

Plus you are not making any points here really, just a quip with no follow on.




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