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> Do I forgive him? no, especially since he never apologized. what you are describing is not forgiveness. It's called moving on.

Forgiveness is moving on. It is letting go of your negative emotions. Needing someone else to apologize to "give forgiveness" is not how forgiveness needs to work.




If that person hears that they have been forgiven, how do you think that will guide their future actions?

There's a big gap in all the highly psychologized/desocialized talk of forgiveness in this discussion. That is one of its problems.


>If that person hears that they have been forgiven

Because its something private with yourself, I dont see it necessary as something to share for it to happen. Forgiving someone without telling them will change your interactions with them, but you dont need to tell them youve done so for it to be forgiveness.


i moved on with my life without forgiving someone. someone apologizing for what they did is the first step to forgiveness. You can't forgive someone who feels no remorse for what they did. They used to be part of my life now they are insignificant. Seems like your definition of forgiveness is different from mine.


>You can't forgive someone who feels no remorse for what they did.

Yes you can. "I am beyond this event." Making forgiveness contingent on someone elses action removes your own agency. Forgiveness isnt a gift you give someone else.


>Making forgiveness contingent on someone elses action removes your own agency.

says who? Never said forgiveness is a gift. You you have to earn it. One has to be deserving of it. In fact what everyone seems to be saying here makes it sound like it should be a gift, given with no conditions.


>You you have to earn it. One has to be deserving of it.

That removes your agency. You can't forgive without getting something from them first. If they never give, you never forgive, and you continue to live with the hurt.

Making forgiveness contingent on deserving, earning, or being worthy of it is something else entirely. The other person need not be involved in forgiveness in any way.

A gift is something you give someone else. Saying "they dont deserve it" implies you seeing it as something you give someone else. Forgiveness is only between you and yourself.


> That removes your agency...........land you continue to live with the hurt.

My agency is from moving on not based on forgiveness. you can't just blanket classify everyone's hurtfulness. Sometimes even after you forgive someone you're still going to continue to live in hurt. other times you can move on and not forgive someone and not be hurt anymore. It has nothing to do with forgiveness. Moving on is part of and a prerequisite for forgiveness, but not the other way around.

> The other person need not be involved in forgiveness in any way..... Forgiveness is only between you and yourself.

yep that is all true. and me and myself thinks that guy doesn't deserve forgiveness. I'm not losing sleep over it or suffering in anyway. Simply I don't associate myself with that person anymore and not have them be part of my life. Even if I forgive someone I don't tell them.

People in this thread seems to have different definitions of forgiveness and mix up acceptance/moving on with actual forgiveness of someones actions.


>Sometimes even after you forgive someone you're still going to continue to live in hurt.

No, that would not be forgiveness. Forgiveness is you overcoming the negative emotion.

>other times you can move on and not forgive someone and not be hurt anymore.

That would be forgiveness.

>Simply I don't associate myself with that person anymore

That would be a lack of reconciliation. Reconciliation is not a requirement of forgiveness.

What you are describing is either excusing or pardoning.

>Moving on is part of and a prerequisite for forgiveness, but not the other way around.

There are multiple ways to move on, including forgetting.

I am generally a descriptivist. I acknowledge there is a second definition of forgiveness that is incompatible and mutually exclusive with the first, and that many people commonly use the word that way. That second definition however does not invalidate the concept of Forgiveness, with a capital F. It doesn't erase the first meaning of the world. I am not going to call it "misuse of a word" but the word is being used extremely loosely to describe other concepts that have other defined words. In this case, precision and clarity are required in conversation, and using definition two to have a conversation about the meaning of the concept in definition one, becomes a circular argument.


> Forgiveness is you overcoming the negative emotion

no its not

>other times you can move on and not forgive someone and not be hurt anymore.

no its not, its called moving on

> That would be a lack of reconciliation. Reconciliation is not a requirement of forgiveness.

no forgiveness is between yourself so reconciliation has nothing to do with it.

> There are multiple ways to move on, including forgetting.

yep and forgiveness is one way to move on. but moving on is not forgiveness.


> You can't forgive someone who feels no remorse for what they did.

Why not?


cause they don't deserve it




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