On: How MSG Got a Bad Rap (2016)

[dnprock]

I grew up eating foods with MSG. I'm usually aware of it. It's one of cooks' favorite abused ingredients. Eating a lot of MSG is bad, just like eating a lot of anything, sugar, salt.

[Matticus_Rex → dnprock]

You're never eating "a lot" of MSG, though. Even the most abusive chef is adding it at the level of well under half a gram per serving, whereas you're eating minimum 5x that in salt and likely 10-20x that in sugar if you're not optimizing for minimal sugar intake.

[kazinator → dnprock]

Would you drink a can of pop in which 30g of sugar were replaced with 30g of MSG?

[adrianN → kazinator]

Would you drink a can of pop in which 30g of sugar where replaced with 30g of salt?

[bjoli → kazinator]

Of course not. No one claimed it is comparable 1 to 1.

[kazinator → bjoli]

If we don't compare 1 to 1, even too much water is bad for you. You can die, and there will be a headache involved.

[kryogen1c → kazinator]

> If we don't compare 1 to 1

This is a false dichotomy. You can meaningfully compare effects when there are differing dose dependencies. Its just another variable to consider and in no way makes it impossible or meaningless.

[yoz-y → kazinator]

That would taste terrible! More on point: ingesting 30g of MSG is probably less harmful than 30g of sugar.

[Arbalest → yoz-y]

That's an awful lot of sodium to throw out the potassium sodium balance, even after considering the mass of the glutamate ion. I don't think it could actually be better than the same mass of sugar.

[kazinator → yoz-y]

That could be true even if the MSG happens to give you an awful headache in the short term.

[fer → kazinator]

No[0], it won't [1], that's the point of the article.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4870486

[1] https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/125/11/2891S/47...

[kazinator → fer]

[0] is shill work by researchers working for a MSG manufacturer. I have seen this before. One even has an "ajiusa.com" e-mail address right there, /palmface/. Can't comment on on [1]: the entire paper is paywalled as far as I can see, not even a hint at the results.

Let's try something else:

Graham TE, Sgro V, Friars D, Gibala MJ. 2000. Glutamate ingestion: the plasma and muscle free amino acid pools of resting humans. American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism 278:E83–89.

These researchers provided single 150mg/kg oral doses of MSG to 9 healthy volunteers (8 males, 1 female) to determine the plasma and muscle concentrations of glutamate following ingestion. All volunteers reported transient headaches.

Shimada A, Cairns BE, Vad N, Ulriksen K, Pedersen AML, Svensson P, Baad-Hansen L. 2013. Headache and mechanical sensitization of human pericranial muscles after repeated intake of monosodium glutamate (MSG). Journal of Headache and Pain 14:2

More than 50% of healthy, male subjects given 150mg/kg daily doses developed headaches.

[loeg → kazinator]

> Let's try something else

N=8 or 9 (low power), 150 mg/kg(!) doses.

That's like ingesting 11 g of the stuff for a 75 kg adult.

[drewmol → fer]

from [0]:

>Because of the absence of proper blinding, and the inconsistency of the findings, we conclude that further studies are required to evaluate whether or not a causal relationship exists between MSG ingestion and headache.

[kazinator → drewmol]

And that's from people paid by their boss to show that there is no such effect.