It didn't really give any indications as to how it works in the article, but the people I've known with the worst social phobia have been those who've been most scared of potential (or imagined) social punishment, usually because they feel there is a "script" that they will have trouble following in a social setting (e.g. responding to something "the wrong way", or not having the "right" answer ready for a question, etc.) Seems like it makes sense that if you're constantly places in scenarios with no script and no right or wrong answer, it would help alleviate the anxiety over not knowing "what everyone knows" you're supposed to do in [situation], and that being confident in what you say is like 50% of being seen as a socially capable person.
The study notes a high attrition rate (~45% of those who started this dropped out), and this appears to be a voluntary endeavor.
This is significant to me, as I suspect many of the people with anxiety that is significant enough to be diagnosable would not be willing to do it or would pretty much shut down if placed in the setting.
To delve into personal anecdotes:
I had a theater class in school that regularly included improv exercises like described. In 11 years of it (K-10 or so), I don't think it ever went well.
The actual manifestation of the problem with "no script" was drawing a complete blank as soon as I was asked, not having a bunch of ideas I was scared to respond with.
It's certainly possible that these people have a better method, but I had multiple theater teachers and I was socially fine in normal settings. All these activities tended to do was give me more anxiety issues because everyone else could come up with things and I'd just be stuck there no matter how people tried to help me get going.
Those are not really common situations in adult life, but I'm still bad with "icebreaker" games and other similar things that "put me on the spot" to come up with something outside of normal social interactions.
The problem that nearly everyone has, and slowly becomes better, is being willing to be boring. The improv classes and books, particularly the closer you get to Keith Johnstone, all emphasize this. People get paralyzed trying to be creative, and scenes and games stall out, sometimes painfully, when people would be just fine, possibly even overjoyed, with the first thing that comes to your mind. But the first thing that comes to mind might reveal your "true self", the crazy person you don't want people to see that you are sure isn't in anyone else, and so you try to be different, creative, and you're just grasping for what you think other people might find acceptable and special. ... I've taken a lot of improv classes, and read a lot of books, and it's so much more therapy than I expected.
>> I had a theater class in school that regularly included improv exercises like described. In 11 years of it (K-10 or so), I don't think it ever went well.
My anecdote: theater/drama classes in middle and early high school don't count. You're mixed in with a bunch of teenagers who are only taking the class because either a) it's a mandatory class for all students; or b) more than half the class elected to take the class because it's "easy credit". When many/most of the students in a class aren't there because they actually want to explore the art, it ruins the entire dynamic. The same loudmouth bullies who cause trouble elsewhere in the school have an open season on the shy students; every step a socially awkward student tries to take to "open up" simply provides the bullies with more information they need to target the vulnerable.
Every participant must be present because they have a genuine interest to work with their teammates. Acceptance and cooperation are necessary in order to peel back social fear, and that means finding a group of like-minded people who show up to explore themselves and others around them.
It's another way that social anxiety manifests, as a lower level filter. It's how mine generally shows up, and used to be much worse before I did a bunch of therapy.
One thing that made this being anxiety based very clear was that one night I took phenibut for a party, and the following morning it was still in effect and I found myself thinking of way more jokes and doing little improv reactions to the people I was talking to. It's like my brain was completely filtering them out due to very low level anxiety. I got lucky and the effect partially persisted afterwards, because it taught me that saying these things was safe, so I didn't have anxiety about them afterwards.
I used to have this pretty bad. I believed that it showed that I was autistic, or lacking some kind of fundamental creative spark, or something like that. It’s gotten a lot better since I got treated for depression and anxiety. I think it was really just me shutting down ideas at a pre-conscious level. I don’t know much about how the brain works. But this is my (pseudoscientific BS) mental model of it:
1. Our ideas and memories are composed of connections between neurons.
2. “Creativity” is the expression of random, new connections between those neurons.
3. Creative expression requires focusing our attention on those new neural pathways, filling them in and adding detail.
4. Depression and anxiety caused me to focus my attention on the idea of failing to come up with something “on the spot” (and the many minor traumatic memories of failing in this way), instead of the infinite weak, undeveloped ideas that could be explored with a moment’s focused attention. It’s hard to be fun when you are having a small anxiety attack.
5. The antidepressant I’m taking has gotten me out of this rut. Whether it’s by turning off my anxiety, or helping my nascent creative neural pathways reach further by preventing the reuptake of some neurotransmitter, I don’t know.
I think it's related to the exploration exploitation tradeoff in reinforcement learning. Creativity is related to exploration and randomness (and a high learning rate) while exploitation to using past knowledge to extract the maximum benefit. The brain switches off the creative/learning part in order to maximise the latter. In reality we need a mix of both, exploration is necessary for improvement and exploiting past knowledge is necessary for achieving high rewards. In neural nets, a too high or too low learning rate would not lead you to the optimum, you need to find the exact sweet spot. Anxiety would turn the balance too much into exploitation mode when we need to be creative.
The fight-or-flight response has a physiological effect on cognition:
> we suggest that stress shifts higher cognitive processing in a way that facilitates both engagement with and/or avoidance of the current stressor (i.e., fight or flight). By impairing executive control of cognition (i.e., working memory, cognitive inhibition, and cognitive flexibility), stress contributes to a reactive cognitive state that is fine-tuned to rapidly consider highly salient (i.e., stressor-related) information
> stress reallocates limited executive resources in adaptive ways [...] by impairing executive control over thoughts but improving executive control over motor actions [...] ideal for either fighting with or fleeing from a current stressor.
As a socially anxious person who took improv classes in my 20s, I found them hugely useful. The biggest thing I took away were specific attitudes. Like "yes and", where you accept what the person you're talking to starts with and then build on it. Or the the way to succeed is to make many attempts to start something going (what improv calls offers), to follow up on the ones that show promise, and not to worry about the ones that fall by the wayside. Or to not get in your head, to stay present in the moment.
And yes, it definitely trains you that there is no "right" way to have a conversation.
I think the main difficulty is that normal conversational success can be different than improv success. In improv, you want funny. Funny can be good in normal conversations, but most people are after other things. Understanding, support, connection, reflection. New improv people can be fantastically annoying if they use it as just another way to hide and deflect.
I think the better approach is to find a thing you both agree on and truly give a yes to that. E.g., if I disagree with somebody on the right way to solve a problem, I can at least say, "Yes, it's important we get this right."
From there, in improv terms, I'd probably abandon my first offer and find a new offer that is closer to acceptable. E.g., "So let's do a minimal test of both approaches and see what kind of data we get."
From there I'd again use the improv approach of not trying to control the flow, instead saying open to possibility. If the data goes my way, I can be gracious. If it hasn't, I have learned something, and can be generous with my praise. Either one heightens the chosen narrative direction of being on the same side.
Maybe it might be even better to find a thing you both agree on and truly give a yes to that. E.g., if I disagree with somebody on the right way to solve a problem, I can at least say, "Yes, it's important we get this right."
From there, in improv terms, I'd probably abandon my first offer and find a new offer that is closer to acceptable. E.g., "So let's do a minimal test of both approaches and see what kind of data we get."
From there I'd again use the improv approach of not trying to control the flow, instead saying open to possibility. If the data goes my way, I can be gracious. If it hasn't, I have learned something, and can be generous with my praise. Either one heightens the chosen narrative direction of being on the same side.
In this case I think it was worth contradicting his deeply manipulative approach.
Generally I'm for getting along. But when someone acts in ways that are abusive or manipulative, I think it's important to be clear how corrosive that is.
It depends on the person, and how you manage them. It’s embarassing to realize that you’re failing to communicate so badly that you require management. But if the manager handles it well, the managee has an opportunity to prevent that embarrassment from becoming public by changing their approach.
>It’s embarassing to realize that you’re failing to communicate so badly that you require management.
The other possibility in this situation is that the person doing the managing has just cast an unnecessary zero-confidence vote because of their own perceived superiority or excessive ego. Trying to manage people opens you up to some seriously negative social repercussions, unless those people are your kids.
An actor I really like claimed improv's "make the other person look awesome" notion helped her to be different, stand out.
Sounds like a fantastic philosophy.
I've never witnessed improv (live performances). I had ignorantly equated improv with standup comedy, which I mostly dislike, for being mean spirited and punching down.
What I remember from middle school and early high school is the pressure to be funny in group settings. In terms of social status, that skill was at least as important as being good at sports. Failure was immediate and so public. My jokes were met with confusion, silence and people looking at their shoes. The most excruciating part was waiting for someone else to pick up the dropped ball and restart the conversation. It only took a few experiences like that before I stopped trying. Improv could help you learn what is funny to your peers and also how to participate in a way that keeps the conversation flowing.
I wonder if there’s still value in etiquette classes that used to be common but seem to have disappeared. I can imagine there being benefits to practicing politely greeting people and holding a conversation with eye contact and complements and all of that.
would that fall under "exposure therapy" ? i.e. doing it enough to get comfortable that nothing bad happens no matter how unprepared, as opposed to learning the skills to have a good "script" for when situations arise. I've tried Improv classes for this reason, but can't say it was a huge boost, other than adding 1 more thing to my list of self development achievements :)
I definitely think so. I started my career in the financial industry and stumbled into a position that required me to attend mutual fund board meetings at 25. As the youngest person in the room by at least 20 years and the only woman it was hugely intimidating to me. It was also immensely frustrating. They would ask a difficult question of me (as good board members do) and if it wasn't a question I had anticipated I would freeze, blubber out some sort of halfwitted response, and hope they'd quickly turn their attention elsewhere. Later I'd get angry at myself because if I hadn't panicked I knew I could have given a much better and more valuable response. Complaining about my frustration one day a colleague suggested improv classes to me and they were HUGELY valuable for this exact reason. It taught me that I can take a moment to gather my thoughts and nothing bad would happen. It also taught me that I could decide where a conversation was going instead of being dragged along for the ride while my brain tried to work out the details. I often tell people it taught me how to "think faster" but perhaps it's more accurate to say it taught me how to react slower and think more deliberately.
>It taught me that I can take a moment to gather my thoughts and nothing bad would happen.
One high-level exec at IBM had a habit during the Q&A at analyst meetings of writing down questions on index cards before answering. He partly did this as a process of making sure he understood the question. I'm sure it was also his way of taking a bit of time to collect his thoughts.
Preparation is hugely important of course. And sometimes the correct answer to a question is "We'll get back to you on that." But it's also incredibly useful to be able to deal with curveballs whether it's an unexpected question, an A/V meltdown, or a demo failure.
That's really interesting. I'm always nervous that taking too long to respond will make me look incompetent but if I was in the room and someone calmly took the time to write a question down I think my impression would be "wow, they're so in control" because they aren't bothered by silence.
This is a bit far out, but if anyone here lives in London and wants to try their hand at this: I run improv workshops. Usually for actors , but I’d love to do a HN session or two :) if there’s interest.
I will definitely make sure to tailor it 100% to be approachable by even the most awkward introverted IT’ers among us; I’ve been in the business for long enough to know how. No pressure, guaranteed. Sitting and watching for the entire workshop is also fine.
No charge beyond a few quid pp to cover a room. beyond that we just need an evening and some snacks.
My contact is in my profile; reply here or drop me a line—would be a lot of fun to make some magic happen!
I often have social anxiety and I can confirm these findings. Some years ago I did an improv class. First I was really scared but we did a lot of exercises where you really had no pressure to be funny but funny situations just developed without anyone trying. I learned to say "yes" to new things and go into the unknown without being scared.
It was super low pressure and very supportive and I would rate it in the top 5 of life transforming experiences for me. Others are travelling without preparation, joining Toastmasters and picking up martial arts.
This was basically folk knowledge when I was growing up in Brazil. Theater classes for teenagers were like 40% attractive people who want to make it as actors/60% awkward teens.
From a basic trust in the scientific process (but also noting the limits of scientific psychology) I figure that social anxiety and the like are serious mental illnesses. But I immigrated as a three-year old and didn't know the language/make any friends for a while, so my social skills always lagged. Theater lessons (some of which was improv, but we wrote our own sketches for a capstone play for our own families) sort of helped me balance that. If there was any anxiety it was secondary/symptomatic of some underdeveloped stuff, much like people develop math anxiety.
In retrospect, I attribute it to the "growth mindset" phenomenon: beginners make fools of themselves onstage whether they are awkward or easygoing, so you realize that being-comfortable-in-your-skin is something you can learn rather than something you were born without. Maybe this is what people are going to "hackathons" for - in a pressured time-boxed situation people are less likely to look down on the less math/programming-literate and help them instead.
“Make someone do something they’re afraid of at a level they can handle and they get better at it and less afraid”.
Not surprising. This is how I conquered my deep fear of flying. I took some flying lessons and even had the instructor do stalls and other scary stuff and I was 95% better afterward.
It’s so much easier to take a drug or blame biochemistry than to face your fears. I think it’s underrated in today’s world where there’s a handy diagnosis for everything.
Note: not casting aspersions on people with serious issues. But when 20% of the US population is supposed to have anxiety disorders, something doesn’t make sense.
> Note: not casting aspersions on people with serious issues. But when 20% of the US population is supposed to have anxiety disorders, something doesn’t make sense.
That's what happens when a culture undermines the virtues of independence, competence, stolidity, and maturity while venerating childishness. It's what happens when a culture overvalues safety and the avoidance of suffering and undervalues character. Coddled children turn into adults who lack the skills and experience to deal with hardship.
Exposure therapy is hard work. It requires calmly distancing yourself from your fears and anxieties, believing that they can be overcome in the first place, strategizing about how to overcome them, and carrying out actions that are genuinely terrifying to you. It requires valuing freedom from your own emotional limitations over freedom from discomfort. It requires preferring being capable over being comfortable. And that's a hard mindset to cultivate if you were raised in a society where parents sometimes get into legal trouble for letting their kids walk to school or sit outside in the car while they're grocery shopping.
20% of the US population does have anxiety disorders, because the US is suffering from a psychiatric epidemic.
That's pretty much exactly what CBT is, which we already know is effective and is already relevant as a "mainstream" treatment for mental illness ("have you seen a therapist?").
I think coming to the point where you're ready to "face your fears" may be the real difficulty, and not just because people are lazy, stupid, or "coddled". On the contrary, we as humans are really smart. The mind has developed complex strategies exactly for avoiding dealing with your fears.
I'm somewhat skeptical of these results. I'm a member of an (amateur) improv group. When I improvise, I often feel more nervous because I'm thinking about several things at once: acting, supporting my partner, finding the "game" of a scene. In this way, I can get "stuck" in my head much more than I would in everyday life. While it certainly feels great to have a good show or practice, it can feel pretty crappy to have a show that goes poorly. If I had problems with anxiety, I'm not sure that improv would help.
I’ve been taking improv classes for most of this year and I disagree with your conclusion.
You don’t heal from anxiety by hiding from anything scary. You get better by doing things you feel anxious about (and then not dying). And as for presence - if you’re getting stuck in your head while on stage, it becomes much harder to listen and be present to your scene partner and the needs of the scene. In my experience there’s a limit to how good your scenes can be if you’re in your head about them.
Improv for me has helped my mental health in lots of tiny ways - I’ve gotten better at visibly failing. I’ve gotten better at expressing negative emotion and I’ve gotten a lot more present. I feel like improv theatre is a microcosm of normal struggles; a lot of the long term issues that we face come up in improv too. And on stage you get the chance to face those demons in a safe, supportive environment surrounded by friends.
Being in your head is exactly this sort of developmental challenge. Your improv will (long term) get better if you get out of your head with it and instead be more present and intuitive. And that’s really important in regular life too. For people who struggle with that, what a perfect place to practice.
Personally I highly recommend doing some improv classes to anyone smart and creative who wants to push themselves and grow. It’s hard in the best way.
When you have anxiety your normal mode of being is similar to what you feel while doing improv. Probably even worse. You’re nervous, your thoughts are racing away, you have no internal focus or time to think about the actual situation, because you’re too busy worrying what everyone else is thinking.
I mean, that’s a normal train ride for me, and it’s not like you even have to talk to other people on the train.
It’s also why practice works. The point isn’t to stop being nervous, it’s to stop being terrified. I’m not sure improv is really better than focus groups designed specifically for people with with anxiety, but I can certainly see it being useful.
As you might’ve guessed I have anxiety. In my teens I literally couldn’t talk to people I didn’t know. I’d get red in the face and panic myself into being unable of speaking. Thanks to practice I’m now capable of doing stuff like: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lk-4AFOw0tI without feeling fear.
I’m still working on my anxiety though, and part of my therapy is actually being part of a toastmaster group, because the only way to shred the fear,is to experience social situations. Especially ones that give you feedback on your performance, because it shows you, that you really have no clue what other people are thinking, and that what they think about you is mostly positive.
I imagine the idea is not to necessarily make these kids completely comfortable with doing improv, but use some of the improv skills in their daily life. So if they're able to do improv in front of a class, giving a speech might not feel as bad as it did before their improv experience. Or they might be able to go to the beach when before they were too anxious about being seen in a bathing suit.
Kind of an exposure therapy, but where the exposure isn't directly the situation they're anxious about.
I was wondering the same thing myself. I'm sure improvisation classes help some, but I suspect it also causes or exacerbates anxieties in others.
I for one do not have an anxiety problem in my day to day life. But having to take an improvisation class would cause anxiety and exacerbate it.
If anything, I think team sports or video games does a far better job of reducing anxieties in teens than anything. Though it can also cause anxiety. There isn't a silver bullet for any human condition since humans are a diverse group.
My take is that theater, or taking the stage in general, helps tremendously.
I remember being such a shy child that in school I couldn't even get myself to stand in line to the sink in which all the others were washing their hands before lunch.
My mother sent me to acting classes when I was eight or so and this experience changed me forever.
It's the sheer adrenaline of being at the center of attention with your group that does this - just about any social situation becomes manageable after that.
I'm a believer in these findings. I do wish that the model for learning improv in the private sector was different. As it is, adults have to move to cities where theaters are offering classes, then pay out for the classes (which can run up to $300-400 per 8-week class in the bigger schools). It's expensive, is the point, and this creates a barrier for people of a certain class. I'd love to see it offered in more high schools, or as a free-or-cheap activity akin to soccer or community theatre.
Don't even get me started on the level of privilege needed to pay through enough class levels to let one of the theaters audition you for their non-paying staff performer spots.
It's not as though improv teachers are walking around buying luxury vehicles, though. The classes are as expensive as they need to be for the instructors to eat.
There's nothing stopping people from starting up a community improv troupe without formal training from a teacher, just as you don't need someone with an MFA in Performance to start a community theater group. There are enough books out there on the art form that a dedicated group could learn the necessary techniques on their own.
And high-level youth soccer can be way more expensive than even UCB-level improv classes.
I've looked at acting classes, and even beginning classes are much more expensive (2-5x) than any other type of classes I've taken, like martial arts, music, or dance -- even private lessons.
Do dancers not need to eat? Do musicians not study as long to become competent teachers? Why is acting priced so different from every other art?
Movie stars get paid orders of magnitude more than top martial artists/musicians/dancers, so more people try to be actors, so there's a larger market, meaning instructors can charge more.
Also depends where you're looking. The professional acting scenes in LA/NYC tend to choke out the hobbyist scenes (why see a community theater show in Manhattan when you can get sub-$50 tickets to a Broadway show from TDF?), so if you're looking for acting classes in those areas, they're directed at and priced for professionals.
What aetimmes said. The cost of starting your own group is $0. People form their own hobby groups all the time. Joining your own baseball team, band, acting troupe, choir, carpentry club, etc. are all free; lessons in baseball, music, acting, and carpentry aren't.
> I'd love to see it offered in more high schools, or as a free-or-cheap activity akin to soccer or community theatre.
It is community theatre. Those are the same thing.
There is a whole other subculture around vr games such as rec room that could do this. You could probably create a room in rec room, advertise it on hn, and get enough people to create a community.
Improv is one the most fun and useful thing I've done. I don't think I had any diagnosable social issues, but it's made me better socially. It's also made me better at presenting and pitching. And it's given me something to spend time on that's not work or tech related.
Adolescents who have Social Anxiety Disorder do not receive the support they need. Improvisational theater involves regular exposure to social performance situations, and is recognized as a potential psycho-social support to enhance well-being and symptom reduction. The current study examines whether participating in a school-based improvisational theater program predicts reductions in symptoms of social anxiety. A total of 268 middle and high school students who participated in a ten-week school-based improvisational theater program completed surveys in a single group pre/post design. Adolescents who screened positive for social phobia at the beginning of class reported reduced symptoms of social anxiety at post-test. This change predicts increases in social skills, hope, creative self-efficacy, comfort performing for others, and willingness to make mistakes, along with marginal decreases in symptoms of depression. Given that no prior study has examined school-based improvisational theater training and its relationship to social anxiety, this work offers an important early contribution to the empirical literature on improvisation and mental health. School-based improvisational theater training offers an accessible, non-clinical alternative for addressing social anxiety problems among adolescents.
Improv is absolutely wonderful for social anxiety - the point is to say "yes, and" and every time someone just gives a hard "no" the entire scene stops and everyone can feel it. Social anxiety for many is the fear of social/phsycial consequences for expression - its a perfect "safe" environment by which to learn to express yourself.
I'm an active participant in improv and I'd like to disagree right here.
If you have someone who is really being off the rails and is JUST expressing themselves and not really listening/collaborating... It's essentially the same as a `no` to everyone else's idea.
I have a hard time reconciling these things. Where it "should" be safe for "everyone" but not if you're too crazy!
I think some people really get off on the expressive/generative part of improv and not so much on the listening/collaborating.
I suppose that there are quite a few people who express their social anxiety by having pressure of speech, which it'd be a downside for, but for myself and most others who go "quiet" out of deference or fear its been very helpful.
If the person doesn't do well at passing the ball in a conversation, often times they can fix that pretty easily by having it explained to them, and given what would normally seem way overly direct/aggressive advice usually works well for those people.
I keep seeing anecdotes about the unreasonable effectiveness of improv. Many people say it’s in the top 2 or 3 subjects they’ve studied and learned, regardless of their background/profession. Maybe it’s time to look into studying it myself, I’d be happy if people shared any recs on how to get started.
You don't mention where you are, and that's key. If you're in a major city, there are many good places. I know Chicago, NYC, LA, and SF have thriving improv communities. I'd say check Yelp and see what you have around you.
Depending on your personality, I'd either look for a structured program (e.g., Improv Olympic in Chicago has 6 levels that are 8 weeks each) or a place that has drop-in classes that are open to beginners. The former is nicely structured, and an intro class will be full of people who are novices like yourself. The latter will be more freeform, but it lets you try it out without commitment and see what more experienced performers are like.
You should also think a little about where you want to go with it. Some improv is more in the direction of creating longer narratives. Some is very focused on skit creation. Some of it is very game-like. [1] If one of those resonates with you, it may be worth seeking out. If not, I'd say just take a class and see what you think.
You really should. I got schnookered into joining a drama club in high school and it was probably one of the best school experiences that I ever had.
The ability to stand in front of a big room and not be anxious was both liberating to me and profoundly useful. I cannot even imagine the opportunity that I would have missed had I not had that confidence.
As a side benefit, it’s alot of fun, I wish I had kept it up!
Just find a class and sign up! Ideally, if you're near a big city, you can find an improv theater that offers classes. If not, you should check out your local community center or adult education center. Maybe even the local community college (though I suspect that might be the most expensive option).
This basically confirms my experiences, the way I improved my social anxiety and public speaking was with (forced) immersion therapy from the public speaking and communication I had to do in college, and at work to a lesser degree.
It would be nice if Software Engineering jobs would involve more human interaction. With all this Scrum I have the impression the Engineer is supposed to only work on tickets, have no meetings ideally because it's more efficient when Product people etc. do that.
Many flavors of Scrum have daily standups where you must (briefly) talk to the rest of the team, and also involve doing pair programming where you are constantly discussing something with another team member sitting next to you. (This last part actually saps my energy and is something I don't enjoy about agile methodologies...)
The problem is that highly technical and focused conversation seems nothing like aimless conversation in social situations.
I also think that for most mundane tasks pair programming is more of a burden than an improvement. For really difficult tasks that take hours to just imagine the solution, it can be actually productive to sit together and solve it that way.
That's how it was a decade ago on the east coast as well, when I went through it (tangentially, admittedly).
5-7 well adjusted folks who are looking to act for attention (nothing wrong with that, to be clear), 25-30 folks who feel weird in their own skin and see drama club as a way to bond with people like them.
I never did improv, but in high school, the way that I got over a lot of social anxiety was learning to be funny; making my peers laugh was a good enough way to break the ice and has really helped me in my career. Granted, in high school the only trick to making a joke is to imply something sexual or say a swear word, but the principles still basically holds.
Picking up a few joke books was really helpful to me, so I suspect that taking a class might be even better.
If I learned one thing from my 201 class at Upright Citizens Brigade theater, it was that I'm not as funny as I think I am and that I should stop those "funny-man" impulses from high school. Humor has a way of controlling the conversation and tone. Improv is about sharing and cooperating over that control. You share a stage with 15 other folks who want to relish in that limelight, and you quickly learn what happens if you don't cooperate.
I only bring this up since improv helped me think about social situations in a very different lens. It's like taking up a recreational sport - you'll think you're fit until actually pushed into a challenging environment.
I’ve forgotten many of the leading roles I had in plays during school but I remember in fine detail the first big laugh I got during an improv lesson in drama class.
When I was in middle school in the late 70's I was exposed to "Interp" - dramatic interpretation, a form of debate that is dramatic and improvisational. My school never developed its own team, but I envied the schools that did. Looks like it is still going strong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNDZ9yblPpI
When I was in high school, that superset of debate and Interp events was called forensics, and joining my high school's team was one of the best decisions I ever made.
Memories for life and public speaking skills to go with it.
I know this is a bit tangential, but my 2nd grader has had a string of "public speaking" assignments and it struck me as being odd (ie 7yo is kinda young for something like that). But apparently it is a bit of a trend in schools and they very much do it that early on purpose. It builds up confidence slowly before social awareness really kicks in. I thought it was a brilliant idea.
I'm told that most people fear public speaking more than they fear death. I'm not wired that way[1], but it seems like a logical thing to help people overcome at a young age.
[1] Which isn't me saying I'm a badass or anything; I just don't especially fear public speaking in particular.
In public speaking, I used to turn red, sweat and babble...
In business school, a three day seminar with theater actors made me realize it didn't have to be like that - it unlocked my attitude and set me on a self-improvement path... I am now at ease speaking anywhere anytime - it took a few years but improvisation with actors has been key to start heading there.
I wonder if this is limited to improvisational theater or if something like a roleplaying game, where the person has to act out a role with no script, can help as well. I would think that they get to perform the same sort of social interactions and while still being "low cost".
I'm guessing that the best script for people with some kind of anxiety is: acting that you simply don't care. That way, you don't look stupid, just a little uncooperative or disinterested. From there you can build on confidence, thus keeping your head from overflowing with negative thoughts, and actually making a more interesting performance.
I've found improv to be frustrating (but not anxiety inducing) in the sense that you can "yes and" a topic to a place that's difficult for someone else to pick up.
Almost like you're playing catch, but you tossed the ball to a place that makes it too hard for your friend to catch. Another example would be writing a comment (even this one) and consciously making sure it's easy to reply to, rather than just expressing myself.
I suppose it's like having a binary tree, and trying to pick a node that's not too far down the tree.
I find myself having to take a step back and consider what I'm going to say and if it makes sense (in general) for someone else to continue off of rather than just talking.
You should do it! I took a year of improv as an adult (30's) and found it an incredibly valuable experience. It benefitted my communication skills tremendously and reduced the anxiety I had talking to strangers.
"yes, and" helps with the communication protocol. You're more constructive and work harder to clearly communicate your points.
"you don't have to say anything clever" takes you off the spot and reduces the pressure. If you're less comedically included, you can still heighten the stakes by interpreting what's going on and going along with it. The audience just wants to see human drama, and the most truthful thing is how you feel about what's happening. Just to do it -- it's that easy. There are no expectations.
Improv teaches a meta language. Your intent, what you're going to do with the scenario, how you feel about each other and the world around you -- none of this has to be spoken. You're having a dialog with your scene partner(s) and communicating to them in realtime outside of the actual words that you're speaking. This is especially important, because so much of real life communication is non-verbal. Improv opens you up to that whole world.
There are no wrong choices. Yes, there are more optimal choices, but there are no bad ones as long as you follow the simple rules of improv. You don't even need to worry about that until you become serious about improv as a hobby.
You'll find analogs to all of these points in your own communication with friends, peers, superiors, et al.
Improv is one of the best courses on human communication. It's also cheap, fun, and highly effective.
> Improv teaches a meta language. Your intent, what you're going to do with the scenario, how you feel about each other and the world around you -- none of this has to be spoken.
Thanks for articulating that insight. I've looked into improv off-and-on for years but have not found the clinching argument on its value-add in my situation. I'm fortunate enough to not be prone to social anxiety (I'm a people-connector type and am actually drawn to strangers), and public speaking doesn't faze me, so I haven't really been able to see how improv would fit into my life. But improving non-verbal communication is a meta skill that I could get behind.
I'm still not sure how "yes and" would apply in improving daily conversation though. Do you have any positive experiences to share?
Wet blanket researcher: No randomization, purposive sampling, high attrition, this is not great science. Doing randomized trials for this sort of thing is difficult but necessary. A correlational pre-post study is a good start!
I've never encountered with "improvisional theater". How does it work? What practically is "performing without a script"? You stay on stage and say anything that comes to your mind?
You know when kids play make-believe? Where one kid is a knight, and the other is a dragon? That's improv.
Improv can take a lot of forms -- there's one style that's basically "make up a movie, complete with narrated camera moves". There's another that's "a series of unconnected scenes". My team is doing one now that is basically an improvised podcast or radio play.
Simply "standing on stage and talking" is bad form, because it's not especially interesting. How many tv shows are just people talking? None; people are doing _something_. Sometimes those people are very active, like if they're riding a dragon into combat. Sometimes those people are less active, like if they're a radio host talking to callers. But never are people just standing: they're adjusting the radio microphone, or flipping a page to read off of.
Yes. Let's go back even further to six-year-olds making things up in a backyard. That's improv! There's a sense of play, a sense that you just need to add one thing or less to what's already there, and a sense that no one's in charge. Improv.
Uh...I don't think these are even at all a little bit close. The second sentence, maybe, there is a cost of attendance and maybe the anxiety experienced at first, but...uh...those are both within life...killing yourself costs exactly at least 1 life. I think improv is a better deal, much cheaper!
