I have no write-up, so probably not a terribly interesting comment. But my wife and I decided to make our own 100% wool mattress several years ago by stitching together five italian officer blankets with wool batting sandwiched between each layer. By far the most comfortable mattress I've ever slept on. We've had it for maybe 5 years now I think.
Definitely on the firmer side, but it's like four inches of wool, so its got quite a bit of springiness to it.
As far as heat, we're of the opinion that wool is basically the ideal material. It is breathable, but it matches your body temperature and maintains it pretty well. It wicks the moisture away from you really well.
I don't know how exactly to compare it to other mattresses, but we keep our house at ~60F in the winter and we haven't been running AC in the summers, so our house has been up around 90F with high humidity. It is very comfortable across that whole spectrum.
If you've ever had a pair of high quality wool socks, it's kind of like that. They keep you warm in the winter and keep your feet comfortable and dry in the summer.
> we haven't been running AC in the summers, so our house has been up around 90F with high humidity. It is very comfortable across that whole spectrum.
Everyone is different, but I can’t imagine anything remotely comfortable about sleeping in 90° heat with high humidity. Having recently had to spend a few weeks “sleeping” (more like constant restlessness) in a bedroom in the lower 80s, that just sounds like hell.
It's mostly a matter of stubbornness. Plus your body can get used to a lot of things if you let it. Probably overnight it would get down to around 80F as well.
Today its about 65F, which is quite pleasant. I've found it makes me appreciate these days more.
We basically bought 5 Italian Officer blankets off Ebay (They are roughly the size of a queen bed), and then a bunch of wool batting from a website that sells pre-made wool mattresses, but also just bulk wool.
I think I looked into it recently and we spent something like $700 on materials.
But then you just put down the first blanket, lay down a layer of the batting (I don't remember for sure, but I think it maybe came in queen size bats already from where we bought it), and then repeat.
We stitched around the outsize with yarn using a baseball-style stitch to keep everything sort of fixed in place.
That is how it looked when we first made it, so its a bit more worn in by now. The reason it looks like there are only two layers is because of how we stitched it and how the excess batting was spilling out past the blankets a bit.
I've never tried to actually roll it, but you can fold it in half pretty easily. Folding it half again would probably be doable, but I think that's about as small as you would get it. Rolling it might work better, but I've never had a reason to I guess.
Wool mattress are actually really good. They are natural, breathe easy, no allergens and you don't need to clean it. You just air/shake it out once in a while.
I disagree. If you hang around The Mattress Underground, where lots of mattress aficionados and professional sellers post, you will quickly become aware that most beds are pretty mediocre and overpriced. There's lots of in-depth discussion on their internals, and it's pretty disappointing.
It's not surprising, as there's a lot of information asymmetry in the bed market. Customers don't have a good understanding of internals, and manufacturers deliberately augment confusion by producing under tons of sub-brands and models. Furthermore, at least in the US, sells are carried on a 1-by-1 basis where the salesman tries to extract buyer's reserve price.
I've spent a few years optimizing the core objects in my life, and my bed is for obvious reasons on the top of the list. To cut a long story short, I tested dozens of beds, bought a high end nordic bed (Hästens) and a natural latex one. Both were good. But, like the OP, I've eventually settled on a custom design. A very different one, though.
IMHO, the most healthy option is a thin soft core on top of a hard surface. I also prioritized natural and washable materials. I ended up with a pad made of felt wood panels on top of a modular wooden base. A huge unintended bonus of this design is how easy it is to pack and move around. I can disassemble and carry my bed effortlessly. It's also pretty cheap and durable. And I can disassemble it and put each pad in my washing machine!
A good heuristic is that most high quality items are custom made niche things. Either made by you or, usually, by specialized artisans or engineers. I've seen the internals of some beds costing a few grand. Not pretty. Laughable quality compared to the carefully felted panels I commissioned from a great mill. Same applies to industrial tees vs loopwheeled ones, or cheap plastic coats vs ventile. In the PC world, an equivalent would be some bad quality box with horrible thermal paste and mediocre cooling vs a custom Calyos build.
>A good heuristic is that most high quality items are custom made niche things. e.
See, I just don't think this is true. When you get something custom, you get to tune a lot more parameters than when you buy COTS, and if you know exactly what you want, and if that is different from what is generally available, that can be super valuable.
But usually, the more custom a thing is, the more likely it is to have quality issues. When you want a one-off, you usually pay either in terms of more money or worse quality control (often, as in the case of rare cars, both)
I mean, it can still be totally worth it, but if you buy a hand-built Ferarri because you think it will be more reliable than a mass-produced Toyota, you are likely going to be disappointed. (I mean, a hand built supercar has a lot of qualities... reliability tends to not be one of them.)
Did you explain your thoughts about the ideal mattress some time ago maybe? I'd say I already read those same arguments before and found them extremely interesting.
Mattresses are something we do totally wrong. We could have much more ergonomic designs that were also affordable, washable, less bulky and recyclable.
Great to see someone that took the time to do the research! If I may ask, what's your opinion of my DIY mattress? Mine just consists of two 12x100x200cm pieces of PU foam cut into a triangle shape (I live on a boat.) The 12cm thick PU foam rests on some wooden slats. The foam has 25kg/m3 density and 4kPa compressive strength, if that matters.
My girlfriend and I both find it very comfortable, and all the guests I've had also like it.
What do you think? Are there any hidden risks here that I'm not seeing, or reasons to evaluate the mattress on factors other than comfort? E.x. potential health risks (back problems???)
Sounds good to me. 12 cm is not very thick, so I assume it's quite firm yet comfortable enough to side-sleep?
I don't like foams too much because they tend to release VOCs. But I reckon that a boat might be more humid than a regular home, so it might be tricky to get other materials to work well except wool, horsehair or kapok.
Perhaps you could find a Hästens shop near you, walk there and try one of their 8 cm horsehair toppers (TM8) without a bed. Don't buy it. It's a good product but really insanely overpriced. It will give you a good idea of how a thin custom wool mattress will feel, though. These will compress a bit more than foam, but they also breathe more which might be an advantage during warm weather.
Are you Flemish or Dutch? If so, there should be a few shops close to you.
It's actually not firm at all! Very squishy. You do sink in slightly. You wouldn't be worried about back issues with something made entirely of soft foam? FWIW it's very comfortable night after night and I don't run into any back pain, but I'm still young, so maybe that'll take time to manifest itself? Back issues are my main worry.
And yes, boats are generally more humid than most homes - especially when left alone, they get extremely humid.
And yes, I am Dutch, I guess you could tell by my username :) I'll have to check out a Hastens sometime.
If you side sleep, I don't think you'll run into too much trouble. To be sure, lay on your side and ask someone to check your spine is straight. Your hips should sink in a bit, but not too much.
Else, if you are a back or tummy sleeper and it's squishy, you should try to switch to something more firm.
If what I suggested is too radical, try natural latex, which is quite firm.
A good entry point to the (pretty lacking) sleep ergonomics literature is:
I actually sleep on my back. Not that I don't believe you, but why should I try something firmer when I find this mattress to be very comfortable and never feel back pain? I assume that this causes a risk of future back pain - would you have any information about that specifically?
Did you read the article? Did you not notice the quality of this bed?
I mean, I don't mean to shit on the article. The article itself is awesome, and I love taking this hacker mindset to other aspects of our lives. And writing a good article about it flexes a different, valuable skill. But if I ordered a mattress from a company and got this, I'd be (justifiably) upset.
As I recall, there's a lot of sketchiness surrounding mattress sales, with manufacturers paying for fake reviews. Do you think The Mattress Underground is a good resource, considering this?
My intention wasn't to get it cheaper, it was to have the size and then features I wanted once I did some research. I could've found some dude to put a British emperor mattress on a boat for me but it would not have been as comfortable. I did reach out to some companies like purple that make a similarly structured mattress but none were able to make one 7'x7'.
My wife bought a cal king purple a few months ago and we love it. I was skeptical because it looked like memory foam but it isn't at all. I was also worried it would sag when you leaned over an edge since there was no special side support. But it doesn't sag at all which is a mystery to me.
the very notable difference is that when you make software for a company, you're creating something thats supposed to be used by other people and getting paid in return. if you sell someone a crappy homemade mattress, and charge them 4 weeks at $80/hr, you've basically committed fraud.
if I make a mattress, or a mug, or a shirt, or a skateboard for my own use and it turns out badly - i've learned something and probably enjoyed myself.
Maybe it's just me, but the pictures of it inside the encasement with seams and lumps everywhere make it look incredibly uncomfortable.
Also it seems only marginally larger than a King mattress.
Edit: On further examination, I think the lumpy picture may be of the bottom of the mattress. Which makes more sense.
Edit 2: Or maybe not. From the article: "On top I would put 2" of buckling column gel, which is a squishy material similar to a bottomless rubber ice cube tray." So I guess all that lumpiness is in fact the top.
The gel is a uniform grid. It's intended to be that way. The minor lumps are the sheets which are not super tight, but as another user mentioned I cannot detect them.
Regarding the size, yeah I did realize that when I finished, but it's still visibly larger than a king in person. If I were doing it from scratch knowing that I know now I'd probably do 8x8 and then I wouldn't have had to cut the buckling column gel and it would be even more comical.
Edit: Regarding the size again, I already knew the Queen sized mattress was slightly too short for bed habits even though I am not 80" tall, and the King is the same height. The California King is the full 7' tall but 6' is slightly less than my wingspan and I wanted that to be covered.
The lumps look like small bits of extra fabric from the fabric backing on the buckling column gel. It looked pretty thin so I doubt they'd be that noticeable actually laying on the bed. It probably just looks so lumpy because of the thing encasement/fitted sheet.
I think this is great. A mattress is something we spend loads of time (some of it quite fun) on top of. So why not research and build your own. Excellent craftsmanship and a great write up.
So I've built myself two mattresses using just a 12cm thick slab of foam. My girlfriend and I both consider my "mattress" to be the most comfortable we've ever slept on, and guests that have tried it found it very comfortable. Initially I planned to add other layers to it, like latex, gel, springs or whatnot, but I really can't find any reason to.
It's a fine temperature in the summer and nicely insulating in the winter, and it was fairly inexpensive too ($140 for two 100x200x12cm slabs of high quality foam.)
Has anyone else tried this simple approach to DIY mattress building? Any thoughts on why (or why not) to just use plain foam?
[edit] The reason why I ask is because maybe there are hidden factors I haven't considered. Maybe there's a risk of back pain, or less deep sleep, or something I haven't considered. Perhaps the most comfortable mattress isn't always the best for you. I figured if there's anywhere I'd find a subject matter expert, it'd be here :)
25kg/m3 density, 4kPa compressive strength, 70 euros per piece.
I didn't notice any smell with any of the foam I bought. The only issue I ran into was one piece of foam not expanding properly - it only expanded to about 8cm thickness, not 12 as advertised.
I highly doubt that the extra surface area is worth the poor quality an most likely comfort of the improvised mattress. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t buy into all expensive mattresses being better than cheap ones, however, crappy mattresses do exist, I have experienced plenty, and they still all looked better than this.
Despite the edges looking a bit unpolished, the quality of the mattress itself is fantastic, better than anything I've slept on before. It sleeps very cool due to low contact surface area, and the gel immediately fits to support my back, side, legs, etc.
I briefly considered using the gel without the encasement but that wouldn't be sanitary and would be visually jarring to guests who came across the bed.
Not to criticize, but you sound like a can’t-put-the-Kraft-single-cheese-on-if-it-didn’t-come-out-of-the-package-right person. To each their own. This bed might not look “clean” but it does make sense structurally and the author has a complete working knowledge of how his bed works and can do any repair he wishes. It’s the author thinks it’s good, then he can deal with it.
No offence taken as I am actually a pretty handy person. When I choose what to build myself however, I decide, or at least I hope I do, based on what my skills are and how expensive bought or ordered things are. Beds and mattresses are not in the expensive category. Things like isolating your attic or redoing your bathroom are expensive to get done, so I do those things myself. This week I am replacing the shower, sink and cupboards in the bathroom, which saves me between 2000 and 3000 euros. For beds and mattresses you can just go to IKEA and making them yourself would probably save you a few hundred at most.
"how his bed works and can do any repair he wishes". How beds work is not hard and mattresses are not for repairing.
The most important thing though, is that you have fun building things, so who am I to judge.
p.s. There must be a name for the linguistic construction: "Not to criticize, but".
My intention was not to save money but to get a particular product that didn't seem to exist otherwise (large mattress in the US, and then large mattress with particular properties). I tried to buy one first, there wasn't much else for me to do.
Sure, I get that. I was just wondering whether the extra space is worth having to deal with a less solid professional finishing, where esthetics are less of a concern than support of your body. Mattresses are pretty important for your sleep and therefore your physical and mental health. I am not trying to have a discussion about how you spend your time though, I am sorry if it came across that way.
Hey no problem sorry if my response came off as if I thought you were attacking me.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite the lack of professional finish around the edges, this bed is more supportive of my body than any I've been on. To describe it in more detail it's like lying on a firm surface that conforms to your body.
In Europe, on the Continent, standard sizes are 180cm by 2m, and 2m by 2m (or about 78.75" by 78.75"). When my wife and I lived in Belgium, we bought one of the German 2m by 2m beds, which was quite expensive. But it was still the best bed we've ever had.
Here in the US, we were able to find a store here in Austin (Austin Natural Mattress) that helped us find a solution with three separate layers that can be replaced as necessary, and design the bed to our exact requirements. This is the closest we've ever found to our beloved German 2m*2m bed, and since each side under the top mattress cover can be replaced as necessary, we each get to choose how hard or soft we like our side, or how cool or warm we like our side.
Given our recent experience, I would never again buy a bed that did not let us choose individually how we want our side of the bed to be.
After spending a good amount of time traveling and mostly using comparably 'hard' surfaces to sleep on, years ago I decided to make myself a rather thin Futon to sleep on.
Buying one made from natural materials would have cost me (pre-University) too much, so I checked how to do this on a budget:
I ended up buying a thin sheet of coconut fibre as well as some kilograms of untreated wool (which I laborously cleaned) off eBay and an insulation material called Thermo Hemp off an ecological construction store. I layered them Hemp - Wool - Coco - Wool - Hemp. Then I bought a large sheet and sewed it around, making some passes through a grid in the middle to keep stuff in place. (Total cost ~150eu, Queen size)
The sleep experience was great - my girlfriend at the time thought it was way too hard but for me it was perfect. However, over time the materials compressed a bit and after about two years I had to put something soft below to make it good again. I should have puffed it up every once in a while to prevent that from happening and perhaps chosen the layers a bit thicker.
Sleeping in bedding of your own making is great and you learn a lot in the process!
Came here to say just this. I was really hoping to find a mention of the cost at the end of the article after seeing none within the "acquiring materials" section. This would help fellow makers budget properly should we want to pursue a similar project. Regardless, cool project!
I will add it this evening or tomorrow, it's in line with the costs of a traditional mattress purchase rather than one of the new cheaper online companies.
> After performing some not-so-rigorous tests on some of my extra buckling column gel, I came to the conclusion that the best way to address this was zip ties. The gel is thick and firm enough that if you push down on it you can't feel a zip tie near the middle of it.
How about plain old-fashioned sewing?
> I decided to go with a 7" layer of latex foam as a base as it is form-fitting and relatively cool
This got me thinking; it shouldn't be too hard to add some thermoregulation to a mattress, with a cooling/heating system, and could provide a nice experience. Anyone has any experience with thermoregulated beds? Does they even exist?
I'm not sure about a cooling system, but heated blankets/mattress pads exist for pretty cheap ($10ish.)
Anyone know if there's an inexpensive way to cool a mattress? I found the "ChiliPad" for US$450, with discount codes taking that to $336, which is still way more expensive than any heating pads.
Everything else I've found just seems to be mattress pads with cooling fabrics, which just feel cool to the touch and don't actually cool you down.
I would have expected some plastic hose meshes to exist, that could be plugged into any sort of cooling system (be it pelletier, compressor, evaporation, or just radiator based) trough a closed-loop "watercooling" system, but couldn't find any. Such a mesh could be built into the mattress itself.
I would expect waterbeds to be easier to regulate as well, as I imagine they have a higher thermal conductivity. This could allow to place the cooling apparatus underneath, and make it something like a regular fridge radiator.
Actually, I found a few commercial products for the first idea while researching the second, among which a "mycoolbuddy" mesh that seems to retail for around $60. To be fair, cooling is always a lot harder than heating, courtesy of thermodynamics.
edit: seems like BedJet does it trough air cooling (~$100), which is interesting as well (and they made a fun marketing video, btw).
> I would expect waterbeds to be easier to regulate as well, as I imagine they have a higher thermal conductivity. This could allow to place the cooling apparatus underneath, and make it something like a regular fridge radiator.
I dunno if you've ever slept on a waterbed, but you probably would not want to have a cooling system. The large heat capacity of water means that they act like a giant heat sink, they're actually pretty cold as is. It's the same reason a pool full of water at room temperature feels cold when you jump in.
Chilipad is a complete lifesaver. I am a hot sleeper (sweat in a 55 degree room with just a sheet), and it can keep me so cold that I shiver if I don't turn it up.
It's a super chintzy product, not well made at all, but I am unaware of any substitute for it at any price or quality.
Honestly I don't remember why I decided against sewing but the zip ties are wider and would presumably therefore involve less pressure on the materials.
My knowledge of thermoregulation is very minimal so I have no insight there beyond these materials feeling cool to me.
I wonder what the deal is with 'naming' bed sizes. Here in The Netherlands as far as I know, we just use dimensions so you always know exactly what size you have/want/get. Is it a country or language specific thing? Or perhaps an industry idea to hide information behind ambiguous terms?
Names work well because the actual size of a mattress isn't really important to most mattress discussions, nor are the measurements ever 100% accurate because of differences in material or manufacture. If I'm at the shop buying sheets and I remember my queen mattress is roughly ~1.5m wide, is it a 1.37m wide double mattress or a 1.53m wide queen mattress? Using a name placeholder avoids this ambiguity, a queen sheet will always fit a queen bed, within some margin of error, even accounting for differences in material: I imagine foam is more ductile than spring mattresses so might be made a bit bigger to account for this difference.
I guess that would work well in a situation where there is a limited set of sizes. We'd be stuck with about 15 different names here. I wonder if there is some size distribution difference, for example, almost all hotel beds in the US and the UK are too short, yet very wide for me.
And yet, at the hardware store, you by two-by-four, and if someone suggested that that should be called a duke-size instead, you would think they were off their rocker.
This type of largess reminds me as an engine mechanic of a customer who paid us to turn his sons new mustang into a race car for just shy of a 23k USD birthday gift. When we were finished, the car sat at nearly ground level, only properly ran on premium petrol, and could clear a quarter mile racetrack in just under 11 seconds. The owner returned about a week later complaining the car had to be leaking fuel, because the vehicles trip computer registered an in-city mileage of 6MPG, and a highway MPG of just 8. We also had to explain that racecars do not have air conditioning, and hence theirs had been removed for power and weight improvements.
Go for the gusto at your own peril. There are probably compromises most customers enjoy without noticing them in smaller mattresses.
I did test this out with my hands with the the gel is fairly thick and I couldn't feel ties in the middle, even without the encasement. Haven't had any issues thusfar, and the ties are on the bottom.
Honestly I didn't learn about this company until after I'd started but they still only have an 80" height. Nowadays I'd not do it due to my pickiness regarding materials. Also I think that width wouldn't fit into my bedroom (which I measured before selecting the condo).
That being said it inspires me to build yet an even more gigantic bed in the future.
I agree and in the first rendition you could feel the borders between the gel sheets, which was quite distracting.
An encasement that made those lines invisible might be too thick and negate the benefits of using the gel. When the fitted sheet is over the mattress, you cannot see the lines.
I got the sheets from Advanced Bedding, I put a link to them (and the other sites I ended up using) in the materials section of my write-up.
Some companies (even "traditional" mattress companies like Jordan's Furniture) will cut down mattresses from standard mattresses but they don't seem to build them up. I considered it myself but it's a lot of energy and I'm just glad it's done.
I had to chuckle at the part where you got a friend to help put the mattress cover on, because I've been exactly there - realizing I just built something I can't move myself.
Fun writeup about something I'd honestly never considered DIYing, though I'm familiar with (and heartily approve of) the materials.
Glad you enjoyed it. I had some other times when I needed help moving things and had to use some wedges but didn't want to bog down the write-up with too many details.
The encasement is advertised as fire retardant, bed bug resistant, and some other things I don't recall at the moment. There are inspectors and such for mattress-related products so I assume that this is reasonably accurate.
> Additionally, American furniture companies that make custom beds would not make larger-than-standard mattresses as they only cut down from existing models.
To reply to you and the parent comment. I did check a few stores that said they made custom sizes and a lot actually wouldn't go up to 7x7, although it's clear from your link that select-a-bed does.
It wasn't so much price (although the fact that selectabed asks you to call for a quote suggests they're fairly pricey), it was that once I researched mattress materials, I was pretty set on having buckling column gel as the top layer.
I don't blame you. I tried a purple mattress (which I had no idea wasn't a new or unique "technology" until your post) and Im pretty sold on getting a similar style mattress now.
As mentioned by mesozoic, that's not great for side sleeping, which I do probably 75% of the time. My current mattress also provides me more lumbar support in back sleeping vs sleeping on a hard surface which I've done before. It's simultaneously firmer but more filling than a standard mattress if that makes sense. Additionally for non-sleeping purposes the give is necessary.
I could say I like the size because it's beyond my wingspan and however low the pillows end up in practice, my feet never overhang the bed. And that is true and is a reason I like it. But I definitely like the size because it's ridiculous. On the other hand if this bed lasts me longer than a standard mattress then it will cancel out anyway, especially since I know how to replace individual components if they fail.
Regarding waste, I was mostly upset at having to throw out the foam and fabric from the mattress toppers that the bucking column gel came inside. Everything else at least contributed to the bed. I was unable to convince them to just send me the gel. So they shipped me gel wrapped in waste. I talked to a local shelter but they can't accept pre-opened bedding due to health and safety concerns, so I had to throw out a ton of useless junk.
I have some leftover gel (by design based on the sizes of the sheets) but I've given some to a friend and plan to use more for a backpack.
I don’t see how you imagine that interaction going south. Perhaps a self-limiting belief that you have where women can’t tolerate something you see as quirky?
I've built my own mattress, and mentioned that it's homemade to everyone who's been on it... never had any problems, and my girlfriend says it's very comfortable :)
You mean a round bed? I get that technically it would be a cylinder but people also don’t commonly refer to a normal rectangular bed as a cuboid bed :)
I have a triangular bed (I live in a boat) and you end up with a few unused spots. I think a cylindrical bed would be even worse in terms of "dead space".
I have a friend who had a cylindrical bed in college (and maybe still now). It's fun but takes up more functional space in the room for less usable space on the bed. Also much harder to build and get sheets for.
In the UK, apparently. When I talked to furniture companies like Jordan's, salespeople told me nobody had ever asked them for a bigger-than-standard mattress, only a smaller one.
Some people asked me how much it would cost to make them one when they saw it but they weren't super serious. I don't think anyone would pay me how much I'd charge them to make one the same way, especially with no warranty!
Bless this mindset. The internet would be a lot less interesting without the makers and their write-ups.