I have two boys and the biggest discussion my wife and I have is whether I tease them and push them too much. Especially the oldest one who was born 10 weeks to early and therefore we of course for a long time were being extra careful.
Both of our sons have bruises all over from play because we let them play and challenge themselves and each other.
It's a tough balance but I think it's doing them a favor also compared to later on in life.
I hear you! My son has so many scars and bruises on his knees that I'm afraid the school will call Child Protective Services. :-) I assume that as long as we can keep the kids out of the hospital, it'll serve them well later on.
My 3-year old daughter has plenty of bruises too from normal-kid activities. I get a bunch of bruises/scrapes from mountain biking accidents or BJJ training. Whenever I get a new bruise/scrape, I'll show it to her in an excited/proud way. Now, whenever she gets a bruise/scrape, she always wants to show me. I think it's healthy!
If you teasing your sons is being raised as an issue by your wife then maybe you are teasing them too much?
You are probably from a family with a few kids who all teased each other all the time so its one of your key relationship mechanisms, not only with children but adult teasing too. Am I right?
Maybe I'm not dating the right people, but in my experience you can't infer much from the existence of a partner's complaint. Sometimes they're legitimate. Sometimes they're not. We don't have enough information here.
Humans are complicated (myself included!). Human relationships, even more so. Taking every complaint seriously is a surefire recipe for disaster. I am still learning it the hard way ;-)
The inverse, ignoring all complaints, is equally bad. And figuring when to pay attention and when to ignore, is left as an exercise for the reader :P
> If you teasing your sons is being raised as an issue by your wife then maybe you are teasing them too much?
After having four kids I would say it really depends on the personality of the kid. Three of mine love wrestling and teasing (each other as well as me), but one absolutely does not. Nothing wrong with that, and it's even been great for teaching that everyone is different and how to respect their feelings.
Great point. One of my kids LOVES being picked up and tickled, the other one likes being tickled but will Freak Out if I ever turn him upside down. (So, I don't.)
I still think there is a healthy amount of teasing and there is too much teasing. People can tell when it is too much. Often people who were brought up in an environment with pervasive teasing (typically from siblings) do not have a sense of "how much is too much" when they become adults. The continue to tease beyond the point that is sensitive and healthy and fun - they are not tuned in to the impact of their teasing. Others notice it though - like wives. Typically though the over-teaser dismisses such concerns.
This guy says "biggest discussion my wife and I have is whether I tease them and push them too much". I read that as someone who is not in touch with the fact that he is over-teasing, and is not effective at putting himself in the shoes of others to see and feel what that teasing is like.
When adult tease, they are carrying on the behaviour they learned in the family situation as children. They have not learned that teasing is a behaviour either best left in childhood or strongly curtailed/regulated - it's not an effective way to relate to people if you are an adult, does not grow relationships. Except perhaps as described in the case of this article where a bit of teasing with the kids is fun. A bit.
I think everyone would agree with your initial statement - there is a healthy amount of teasing and there is too much teasing.
After that, though, you start to give your opinion, and your own personal experiences, as if it were facts that apply to everyone.
You have no way of knowing that the OP comment indicates that s/he is "someone who is not in touch with the fact that he is over-teasing". Heck, you don't even know if s/he is over-teasing, something you call a fact.
Your opinion about that teasing should be left in childhood is just that, an opinion, and one that actually contradicts your earlier statement that there is a healthy amount of teasing.
I think I understand your point - some people excuse bad behavior with claims that they are "only teasing". That's valid criticism, but we need to address the specific behavior, though, not a whole method of interaction that can be used in a healthy way in adulthood.
If this behavior is the biggest issue two parents have between them then they need to have a discussion. Contrary to your comments, though, it's not clear that the teasing and challenging needs to decrease. It could be that they do, or they need to be done in a different way, or in an way that doesn't make the other parent uncomfortable, or many other solutions.
Like most internet discussions, we just don't have enough information to be sure.
i still can't agree with you. are you implying that playful office banter with my coworkers is childish and should not exist? are you stating that joking with friends is childish and should have been discarded in primary school?
what if his wife is overly sensitive to teasing because of a lack of its presence in her formative years and, as such, she never learned to cope with it and he's giving an appropriate amount of teasing? i just dont think that we have enough information to levy specific criticisms against this poster.
> are you implying that playful office banter with my coworkers is childish and should not exist?
I think he's implying that most of the office teasing is done by people who don't understand the boundaries of teasing correctly -- which seems to be supported by the way HR policies frown on what you'd call "friendly", that many employees report being unhappy at work because of such things, the way in which many toxic workplace lawsuits come about, and that it is a way in which inter-department politics can become downright dysfunctional.
Most people who defend teasing as a default mode of social interaction -- particularly with coworkers instead of close friends -- sound like abuse victims (who internalized their abuse as a good thing as a coping mechanism) playing out their abuse over on new victims, and not people arguing for a functional social mechanic.
who said anything about a "default mode of social interaction" anywhere in this thread? additionally, i think you'd do well to cite your sources for the assertion in the last sentence because right now it sounds like you're both attempting to diagnose me and misrepresenting my statements.
Who said anything about teasing being a default mode of social interaction?
You. You and everyone talking about teasing be a normal way that you interact and which is a non-trivial fraction of your interactions -- that's just a more wordy way of saying "a default mode of social interaction". A "default mode" is one of a handful of ways that something happens, which is regarded as a normal way for it to happen. So quite literally, I just used other words to describe what you were already talking about.
> additionally, i think you'd do well to cite your sources for the assertion in the last sentence because right now it sounds like you're both attempting to diagnose me and misrepresenting my statements
The source of my comment is partnering with a large corporation to review the HR comments by abusers fired for workplace harassment of coworkers.
Across thousands of cases, for the ones which didn't stem from a single incident (eg, calling your coworker a "fucking nigger" and going on a rant about how he should "go back to Africa" in front of the entire office (not an actual example)), the majority asserted that they were merely trying to be friendly and teasing their coworker, and they they should learn to not take themselves so seriously and lighten up, ie, that months of teasing someone after being asked to stop until they felt motivated to involve outside parties should be excused because they meant well.
I just find it interesting that no one seems able to point out a difference between their arguments and yours.
Yeah, sorry, there's a big gap between what was written and "default mode of social interaction".
Teasing can be a default mode of social interaction, but there's a vast gap between saying that teasing can be okay and saying that it should be a default mode of social interaction.
Your claim that they are the same is nonsense.
There's no doubt that some people try to excuse unacceptable behavior by claiming they were teasing.
There's also no doubt that teasing can be done in a way that does not have negative impacts.
The same is true of many things in the office. Asking someone to lunch can be a good way to form a positive bond with them or it can be a non-professional actionable move.
If a person asks you to stop talking to them in a certain manner or about a certain topic, you should, just like if someone asks you to stop inviting them to lunch, you should.
However, you'd never suggest that no one should ever ask a co-worker to join him/her for lunch, would you?
Thus, your position is only valid if you belief that all teasing is harmful. That's simply not supportable, regardless of your experience.
The problem with playful banter with acquaintances or coworkers is that not everyone has the same threshold or filter for what is or isn't appropriate, or what is or isn't hurtful or insulting. Often times, and what I found with my brother in law is, some can serve it up, but they can't take it in turn without getting all bent out of shape or offended.
I have learned over the years it's always best to behave cordially and respectfully toward those I work with. I've come to believe that it's simply not realistic to go to work and expect to form deep friendships with people there.
I also think this expectation that everyone should be ok with banter and teasing contributes to the lack of diversity we often see now. If everyone you work with is of a certain type, and interacts in the same way, in way that some find insulting or hurtful, then you are not cultivating a diverse group of people, just more of the same.
Reciprocated playful office banter is fine. It's childish but it's okay to be childish with someone who wants to be childish also. Unreciprocated playful office banter should not exist.
Teasing friends is fine and good, all fun and games, but I think it builds deeper and more meaningful relationships to build people up rather than tear them down (even in jest). I don't make friends with people who tease routinely (all in good fun), but that's my choice. I tolerate it from family, because, family.
By the way, most school bullying starts as unreciprocated teasing. Yeah, teasing is childish and I too think friendships are better without it. Maybe it means I take myself too seriously, but I prefer to compensate for others' weaknesses (especially colleagues and spouse) rather than point it out to have a good laugh about it.
And if you're a kid, you're not going to be the one who complains about it. You don't know words like introverted or strategies like "haha that's funny, let's change the subject", you're just going to grin and bear it. And then the teaser (in total innocence, not maliciously) is going to be like, "well he always grins when I do that"...
It sounds like you might've come from the exact opposite place, where you were never teased or taught not to take yourself seriously. My family bonds over constantly harassing each other. No one takes it seriously and we're all better adjusted for it. I've definitely had friends who can't take a joke AT ALL and have ended up being neurotic and no fun to be around.
I have spent some time reading about attachment theory [1], and I believe that what hoopwhatever (on my phone, sorry) said might not be unfounded. The attachment model (hownyou relate to other people) you are taught in childhood will stay with you for the rest of your life, so whatever you see as normal and healthy might very well not be.
I come from a family situation not unlike what you described, but where the teasing was a symptom of something else. We were never allowed to be serious, where the constant banter was a way to distance ourselves from issues. After my parents died I have talked to my siblings about this, and while they are now in good, loving relationships, they admit to having had a really hard time forming a relationship. In my own case I have had a really hard time talking about my emotions and I have been independent to a fault. I have since realised I was more or less suppressing my emotions throughout my childhood and we'll into my twenties.
I had a huge problem realising that my way of attaching to other people was causing me to feel bad, but when I finally decided to work hard to see my emotions and try my best to talk about them, all my relationships (romantic and otherwise) became much better. I constantly fall back into teasing mode and not being emotionally present (because hey, it is quite fun) but I have become much better at being emotionally present when I should.
I just wanted to say that it is extremely hard to see any problems with your own attachment model, because it is very natural to you.
This became an unstructured walll of text with too much personal info. I am not sure if I can read any meaning intonit myself
Smoking pot would do the same thing. Playing a board game also. Are we now going to say that teasing, drinking, smoking pot, and playing a board game are equal?
I can't tell if I'm getting trolled because of your username or not, but it seems to fit here.
Actually, you basically just rephrased my point: the argument I was responding to applies to everything from mild dysfunction (inter-generational family addictions being passed down and celebrated) to perfectly benign (similar habits regarding board games instead of drugs).
Hence, it applying to teasing doesn't say anything at all about whether or not teasing is a good thing -- the argument applies to nearly anything at all, both functional and dysfunctional.
The problem here is that there is a such a wide range of "I'm just teasing". The phrase can be a reasonable defense when someone is getting over protective or trying to inappropriately regulate someone else's behavior. On the other hand, "I'm just teasing" can be a way to justify astonishing levels of assholery. Both concerns are consistent with what I read in the article.
People are different, and I'm pretty sure "I'm just teasing" is nearly never the appropriate response if the other person is upset. Either a serious conversation or an apology are likely the right approach if the person does not like the way that you're interacting with them.
Both of our sons have bruises all over from play because we let them play and challenge themselves and each other.
It's a tough balance but I think it's doing them a favor also compared to later on in life.