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Can you explain what you mean by 'lost'? What would you define as 'winning'? IMO those labels are subjective. To assess them, one should state the goals of the operations and the achievement thereof.



How much money was bled out of the American economy to support those wars? What state are those countries in now? How much debt did the American people incur as a result? What sort of resources were returned to the American people?

All of the answers to these questions are a total loss. Did it make the world a safer place? No. It made the situation in the middle east far worse that things were 15 years ago and its still not looking like its going to get better any time soon.


You are laboring under a raft of assumptions.

Does it serve US policy to have a stable Iraq capable of teaming up with Iran?

Does the US stand to gain or lose if security is lessened worldwide?

Does the debt matter when the currency is artificial and the countries that rely on it are bolstered by a very effective and very experienced security apparatus?

Are resources only defined as raw materials?

There is no such thing as a total loss unless one is annihilated.

Do not mistake me; the Iraq conflict was a terrible waste and IMO an unnecessary diversion. But i think you should remember that policy is not formulated and followed to please citizens and academia.

There is a long game here. Consider the development and placement of nuclear weapons, specifically mobile systems, in the European Theater during the Cold War [sic]. The point was not MAD. USSR had a 5:1 ratio in terms of tanks. Not USSR v. USA; USSR v. NATO. People [read civilian critics] pay altogether too much attention to the big, scary strategic nukes. Tactical nukes are the real game changer in a conflict. TacNukes can be used for so much more than StratNukes. yet all i ever hear people talk about are the big ones.

What i am trying to say is that today's losses might be tomorrows gains. The US may have wasted a couple hundred billion, 4000 drones [that word means more than what it is typically used for these days], and a fuck ton of civilians. But the US now has the most experienced army in the world in terms of urban conflict. China is big, India is growing, Russia is heavily armed... but which country has the most JG and NonCom officers with battle experience? Which country has built a private military apparatus in parallel with its State Military apparatus?

Again, this shit destroys me on the inside. From an objective point of view... remember Red Alert, the RTS game? Do you remember Einstein's comment at the end of the intro movie?

"...only time vill tell."




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