It's like you don't even know you're doing it. I, Mike Gioia, am defensive. Not "PHP developers".
Would you not be defensive if you were called an idiot because of the language you choose to program in? Every time PHP comes up in these forums someone makes a smart-ass comment about how PHP developers are somehow lesser. THAT is why I get defensive, because of how celebrated and rampant it is here to treat PHP developers like complete shit.
Your account is just as old as mine and while I don't know how active you are on PHP-related threads, it's something I see time and time again here. It's a cancer in this community and when you see it and hear it as much as I do it becomes a serious burden.
No other group of programmers is stigmatized like PHP devs are for seemingly no other reason than how many bad ones there are. Yes there are bad PHP developers, but the blanket dismissal is, in fact, bigotry!
> No other group of programmers is stigmatized like PHP devs are for seemingly no other reason than how many bad ones there are. Yes there are bad PHP developers, but the blanket dismissal is, in fact, bigotry!
Woah. Deep breath.
PHP is a legitimate tool. Great for some things. Less great for others. Knowing how to use a tool can't make you an idiot, or bad at what you do.
If you only know how to use one tool, you're likely bad at your job, and/or the n00b that we're talking about as the butt of the "PHP developer" joke: The guy who implements something by following a tutorial and modifying small bits, until he gets used to the language.
Except, guess what - we're all "that guy" when we're in a new language. We start at README.md, a.k.a. step 1. We're making fun of ourselves when we first tried to do $x in $y without realizing that (naturally!! dumb noob!) in $y you actually do $x via $asdf. And even further back, when we started out with.. BASIC? PHP? Something inviting. Come to think about it... A lot of really good developers, who later may have transitioned to other languages, have probably started out with PHP.
But I digress. I've always thought that the php-devs-are-bad joke is just a more instantiated version of $noobs-are-bad.
I identify as a PHP developer. I owe PHP. I've worked with PHP extensively and would implement in it again, if and when it were appropriate. I don't get mad at PHP dev jokes. If I'm called a bad developer because I know a language more than them (and not a joke to lighten the mood or something), then the wielder of the argument is truly the idiot[1]. You may as well be saying "long division is retarded" because you just do it on the iPhone, man, or "French Speakers are idiots".
PS: This is my read on it. I try to live by an expanded Hanlon's razor ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by... $x") and also happen to believe that when you get upset/offended over trivialities, you "give power away". Being overly sensitive only ends up hurting yourself.
[1] And you have to wonder - does he even know that the hammer can also remove nails?
That's great for you that you don't take offense to the comments, but you shouldn't belittle the fact that I do. I've taken many deep breaths about this, and I'm trying to vocalize my feelings about an issue I see here all the time.
Obviously you're right in what you said, but I definitely do not see it falling under Hanlon's Razor and I definitely don't think everyone (or even most) people who bash PHP see it the way you do.
> That's great for you that you don't take offense to the comments, but you shouldn't belittle the fact that I do.
I'm sorry that I offended you, that was certainly not my intention. I'm puzzled as to how that got through, I thought I was careful in my tone. Fair enough.
> Obviously you're right in what you said, but I definitely do not see it falling under Hanlon's Razor
I said "expanded Hanlon's Razor" - meaning that I've found that many more things get misattributed as malice. In this case, the bad PHP dev meme[1] has permeated or sub-culture. That has happened already. It is done. Can't undo it. Can't take it back.
If you attribute usage of that meme to malice every time, and escalate it into bigotry in your head, you're "going to have a bad time" [sic]
I see where you're coming from, but calling discrimination & bigotry is one step too far in the opposite direction.
[1] And again, yes it is a bad meme, but it is actually about one-trick-pony noob devs. Not you, not me. Keep that in mind.
Would you not be defensive if you were called an idiot because of the language you choose to program in? Every time PHP comes up in these forums someone makes a smart-ass comment about how PHP developers are somehow lesser. THAT is why I get defensive, because of how celebrated and rampant it is here to treat PHP developers like complete shit.
Your account is just as old as mine and while I don't know how active you are on PHP-related threads, it's something I see time and time again here. It's a cancer in this community and when you see it and hear it as much as I do it becomes a serious burden.
No other group of programmers is stigmatized like PHP devs are for seemingly no other reason than how many bad ones there are. Yes there are bad PHP developers, but the blanket dismissal is, in fact, bigotry!