Some indicator of whether it's configurable would also be helpful... but then, this is just an Amazon affiliate play and I guess that Amazon doesn't offer the full range of config options so are you just restricting the results to that which is available via Amazon?
Edit: Just found DPI as a side selector on the axis picker.
Apparently all the ZBook HP laptops are missing. I'm writing this with one of them.
At the time I bought it I would have been interested in a query like this: screen 15", up to 32 GB RAM, 3 physical touchpad buttons, no number pad (which turned out to be very hard for 15" laptops - I didn't want a Mac), at least 512 GB internal storage, 4 cores, 1080p or better, next business day on site assistance. Price, battery life, optical drive: don't care. And of course 16:10 aspect ratio, but that would have returned an empty set.
I eventually had to compromise on the number pad even if I almost never used one and I'm not using it now that I have one. I have to shift the laptop to the right to keep the space bar right in front of me. The center of the screen is aligned with my right hand. I wonder what all those PCs designers are thinking about.
They're pretty much at the peak of price. I'm interested in a non-Apple product as well, mainly because of high prices and the mess my MBP 2007 logic board ended up being, as well as the high priced accessories (power cord that frayed and they woudn't give me a new one for free, bloated battery, every other LCD backlight going out giving the spotlight effect). I've had issues with other Apple products, and although I've loved using them, my experience getting any support from Apple has never yielded positive results (because I'm not paying for Apple care?). They replaced my first gen nano that merely had a malfunctioned hold button with an eighth generation that died in less than a year (started not turning on and heating up when I plugged it in), which I accidentally dropped before I could attempt to complain to Apple about it. There's more...but I digress...
I love using their products, but I always get this feeling that they have a lot of planned obsolescence built into them. That or they are just so cutting edge that they push the boundaries of hardware failing. Not sure, but I've spent hundreds of hours trying to debug hardware issues with their devices and there is also a lot of fud on the internet making it more difficult to do that. They never respond to any of these issues on their forums, you always just have to wait until it becomes widespread enough that they will make a service announcement.
I know that these sort of problems are not exclusive to Apple and lots of other companies have issues, I just have not been happy with the way Apple deals with them. That MacBook Pro is the only laptop I have ever owned (besides this Chromebook I'm typing on now) and I am very interested in hardware alternatives. I actually love running Mac OS, but to get away from their expensive hardware that I seem to have horrible luck with and their horrible customer support would be worth dealing without it for me. I admit, though, that I brought a lot of pain onto myself by trying to solve problems rather than just letting Apple deal with it. That's why I'm starting to get the feeling that Apple isn't for a computer hardware geek like me. I want something that is designed to last, that has survived the most brutal quality tests, and that I can maintain myself by replacing the parts. I also admit that I am still tempted to stick with the Mac OS world and get another MBP... I just want more options!!
I'd also like to escape from the Mac, but not because it's expensive. The MBP is ridiculously well made, and the high-end models ship with components that should perform well for 3 years or so. Beyond that point, I'd be looking for a generational change (e.g. CPU architecture, RAM frequency, storage interconnect, etc.) which is more about my weakness for new stuff than actual obsolescence.
Yes, that should be the reason for purchasing a new computer. But that doesn't mean that components should be failing in that amount of time. My first logic board issue happened just outside the 1 year window in 2008, but this was an Nvidia issue... So can't blame Apple right? I would say that the logic board design was horrible regardless of the issues with the chip solder, based on my experiences even with the replacement I got from the recall in 2010. I agree with you on paying for high quality, but well made should include not breaking down.
Also, these days the reasons for upgrading that you mention are diminishing. We all know the limits of Moore's law were being reached, and I was able to upgrade my MBP to 6 GB of memory (Apple's weird limitations on it causing 8 GB not to work?) and put an SSD in it for a solid computing experience sans the other issues.
You're totally right to complain about hardware failures and component deficiencies. Maybe I am just lucky in this regard.
Of course, I've just noticed that there is an option for a 1TB PCIe drive (compared to the 750GB SATA SSD I have now). If I could double my RAM to 32GB as well then I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade. As it is, I'll still probably end up going for it before too long, unless an alternative presents itself.
Personal preference: I don't like the OSX desktop environment. The global menu and the bar at the top are a no no for me. I remove them regularly from any Linux DE I use and if I can't I don't use that DE (no Unity here). I tolerated them on the very first Macs, the ones with tiny screens at the beginning of the 80s when we were always working full screen anyway, but IMHO they don't belong to 15" or larger screens.
Using OSX as a hypervisor to run Ubuntu in VMWare or VirtualBox seemed a waste of resources to me. Installing Linux as the only OS on a MBP doesn't always give optimal results, so no Mac. However MBP 15"'s 16:10 screen and the keyboard without number pad are good things (but Fn Backspace to Del, ugh). It would have been great to fit the ZBook 15 inside my old HP nc8430's case, plus the ZBook removable panel at the bottom. BTW, maybe the new keyboard has a better feeling than the old one but that was good too.
According to this interview from June www.businessinsider.com/linus-torvalds-qa-2014-6 he used a Mac Air but switched to a Sony Vaio because of the screen (no details given). Did he change again? Possible. Anyway, obviously Macs work with Linux. There were some little problems with Linux and the latest Macs when I made my research at the beginning of the year. That happened with the old ones too and were fixed along the months. I had to buy something pretty quickly in February (the old laptop was dying) so I went for a HP laptop I knew worked reasonably well with Linux despite being as new as those Macs. HP's cheap on site next business day assistance was part of the reason for buying from them again. Another reason is that I can open the back of that laptop without screwdrivers and swap RAM and discs. Apparently I can swap also the CPU but probably sockets will change before I'll need to do that.
Hell, I'd jump for joy if I could find a laptop with more than one touchpad button. So tired of those clickpads. Last time I bought a laptop, I searched high and low for a decent laptop with actual, real buttons that could be pushed independent of the trackpad. I was prepared to pay nearly any sum of money for what I wanted, but ended up getting fed up, going to the other end of the spectrum, and buying a C720 Chromebook to throw Arch on. Thankfully, synaptics has come a long way and I could configure it in a way that preserves my sanity.
You may be able to get a MBP with 32GB RAM now (actually I just checked and it doesn't look like you can still), but I was never able to get more than slightly-above-normal memory loaded into the MBP from the factory. As new MBPs have irreplaceable RAM modules, expanding the memory aftermarket is no longer possible (instead of just a massive pain that required ordering several special tools, like various sizes of Torx screwdriver heads, and a few hours of assembly/disassembly time).
Besides the hardware issues, there are many reasons not to buy a Mac. Macs are cool, and I'd like to have one lying around just for fun, but they're pretty expensive toys and I'm not that rich. I can, in general, only justify that kind of expense for a real computer.
I like my MBPro, but when refresh time comes around I'll be looking at alternatives. With Apple de-contenting them over the years, they just aren't all that "pro" any more.
for replacing the RAM on a unibody aluminum MacBook Pro? it's one screwdriver (Phillips 00), maybe 10 screws to remove from the edges of the back cover, and the RAM modules are easily accessible without any additional tools. One of the easiest RAM upgrades I've ever done... maybe 10 minutes max.
(not that it matters anymore since the retina models aren't user-upgradeable)
The 2006/2007 versions were definitely a chore to take apart and required three or four different screwdrivers. The unibody ones starting in late 2008 are much easier to work on. (At least when replacing the RAM and HDD.)
I've never upgraded a unibody aluminum MBP. The ones I've worked on were from 2007.
It is nice that there was a temporary respite of upgradability before they decided to go to the furthest extreme possible and make it entirely non-upgradable.
I purchased a computer in the past year after using my trusty (overheating) HP TX2510 for more than half a decade. I was baffled as to why numpads were so popular, especially on mid-sized (15" or so) form factors. Was there a significant shift in how the 80th percentile user types, that a numpad would be an in-demand feature? I thought I was taking crazy pills.
Aside from data entry and scientific users, is there a utility-based reason why incorporating a numpad is worth offsetting the keyboard, the typical input method (along with mouse for most users)?
I've bought a handful of 17" laptops in the past and was dismayed to find all the ones I was considering lacked a numpad. Only one I've bought (15") had one. And I really want one.
It's really nice for working in computer networking, where you're often typing long strings of numbers with dots between them. The number row sucks for finding numbers and the dot is way far away.
For home or consumer use, though, I'm not sure why anyone would want a numpad bad enough to make that tradeoff.
> It's really nice for working in computer networking, where you're often typing long strings of numbers with dots between them. The number row sucks for finding numbers and the dot is way far away.
Someone really needs to setup their own DNS server...
(That, or make a programmer's numpad that goes from 0 to 'f')
DNS doesn't work everywhere. If I'm filling out Cisco IOS configuration, not every device has a DNS name. It's gotta be the IP address. If I'm filling in the IPAM, it's gotta be the IP address. Putting addresses into the SIEM? Gotta be the IP address. Telling someone what IP address to use for a server they haven't set up yet? There's no server, so there's no DNS name. Gotta be an IP address.
Saying "you don't need IP addresses because you've got DNS" is like saying you don't need gears because it's an automatic transmission. A mechanic would disagree with you on that. DNS is an abstraction. Why is Linux written in C when we have Javascript?
DNS is an abstraction. A very useful one at that; it limits how many IP address I end up typing. No, I do still need to write some, but I went and found the largest laptop I could get without a number pad. To each their own though.
> ... is like saying you don't need gears because it's an automatic transmission.
Just how many speeds is the transmission on a Tesla Model-S?
> ... Why is Linux written in C when we have Javascript?
I'm not really sure why you've decided that you need to attack someone just because they say they type a lot of IP addresses, but it's not very appreciated.
As a programmer, I would not buy a 15" laptop without a numpad. I use a 13" Macbook Air nowadays and the numpad is dearly missed. But yeah you are right - most people won't need them.
As a programmer I always wondered what a number pad could be useful for so it's interesting to know that there are programmers that put it at a good use. I even upvoted you because I find this interesting.
I usually code web applications. I think that most of my numbers go into CSS hex color strings and into my invoices. What are your use cases?
In the past I used number pads to play video games and nethack. Not much of them in the past 10 years though.
Personally I use mine a lot when typing in bug numbers. Sometimes I can copy & paste it, sometimes it's already in my field of vision, my hands are on the keyboard, and it's faster just to type it.
As a programmer surely just a 0 (for starting for loops), a 1 (for off by one errors) and 0-9 (for regexs) suffices for 99% of typing? Typing other numbers seems like it should be avoided wherever possible.
I think the numpads exist because just about all laptop screens are 16:9 now, which forces the keyboard area to be wider (compared to a 4:3 screen, for example). Without a numpad there would be lots of "dead" space to the right and left of the keyboard, so manufacturers added a numpad to avoid the wasted space. Personally I'd rather have a 4:3 screen and no numpad, but this aspect ratio has ceased to exist.
I had similar constraints in some areas, and ended up with a Dell Latitude (so I could get the back-lit keyboard) 14" (so it wouldn't have a number pad), 1600x900 screen. I'm pretty sure most your other constraints could be configured for when buying.
The Tohsiba Tecra series (great laptops; I'm using one right now) is also missing.
As is "battery life." That's a crucial number; I get 8+ hours of real usage on the Tecra, which is awesome.
It also has a number pad, but that's a bonus for me. If you really hate them, Dell has a laptop workstation with no keypad. I have one for work, and I'm bothered by the lack.
On #1, you can, there just aren't any laptops with exactly 13" screens in the db, so nothing is returned (the closest are 13.3" and 12.5"). Try 13.3" - 13.3" and you get results. For marketing purposes manufacturers often round down to a whole number, e.g. Apple's 11.6" MacBook Air model is marketed as 11", and their 13.3" model is marketed as 13".
Agreed with the above 2 and 3. It's a nice visualisation but doesn't show the information most important to me when selecting a laptop. In addition to SSD I care about screen resolution.
My old ThinkPad is near the end of its life (the screen is falling off…) and needs to be replaced. There's absolutely nothing out there that looks like a decent replacement, though. Worse yet, I also like not to have a separate numberpad on a laptop (it makes the keyboard feel imbalanced, because it's even more off-center than usual) and finding that on anything with a remotely usable screen size is damn near impossible.
I'm starting to think the best replacement for my 2009-era Thinkpad is just another 2009-era Thinkpad. I don't want a glossy screen, chicklet keyboard, and non-replaceable battery.
Those damned glossy screens. I can't for the life of me figure out why they ever caught on; glare is extreme on them, dust and fingerprints might as well be completely opaque, and actual physical defects (scratches and such)? Game over.
The keyboard on the X230 is actually quite good, especially compared to its contemporaries. I believe you can swap it out for the older style X220 one as well.
(But I think I'll be sticking with my 4:3 T61 until shortscreens fall out of favor)
I was considering that model but ended up getting a T440s, a lot because of the brainfart they had when designing the area around backspace/enter. Being used to European keyboards, I can not see myself ever getting used to that layout.
Not that I'm not satisfied with my T440s, though :)
I hated that so much on my Lenovo work laptop. I kept hitting the buttons accidentally. I hated it right up to the point where I got a new laptop, and suddenly I realized how often I used those keys, and now I miss them.
Well, my HP ZBook 15 has those keys were they should be. The first row key sequence is ESC, F1 to F12, INS, DEL, Home, End, PGUP, PGDOWN. Maybe this is the only advantage of having a number pad thrown it into the keyboard. This is the layout http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/DSC0...
FYI, you linked a screenshot of the broken layout we're referring to, with all the keys lined up in the same row rather than stacked in a 3x2 grid as they belong.
That was the laptop I had before the ZBook. The old keyboard was better because of the lack of numberpad but I don't feel the position of those keys on the ZBook to be unconvenient. Obviously this is subjective and I respect your dislike for them. I'm quite picky about those kind of details too.
Indeed, I want small but with lots of pixels, was briefly excited that there might be an easy way to find that when the time comes, then disappointed that it appears not.
My major gripe is those small round icons. If they had conveyed something useful, say a brand name (L for lenovo, T for Toshiba and so on) that would've been useful.
Second, there's no scale. If a scale is tough to fit, at least the plot area could've been split into color-coded regions.
Yeah, I'm too sick of giving money to MS for an OS I never use, and too worried about Apple's approach to computing (wall ALL the gardens!!) to give money to either company at this point, but finding something that doesn't come with an OS or comes with Ubuntu is a pain. You've got a few small shops (in particular system76, with whom I had a pretty terrible experience regarding the galago ultra pro), and the Dell Sputnik.
I agree that Linux has probably more users that Windows here on HN, but when I said "a minority of the viewers", I meant "the viewers of the gnod website".
So many great lines in this one:
"
(yes, you can get by with 64 GB, but at least with my Windows installs I find that I have to think about disk space with 64 GB, whereas with 128 GB I don't have to worry -- ever. Don't make me think, man!) "
"Memory? Dirt cheap, and average users won't need more than 2 gigabytes of the stuff in practical use"
Not a criticism, since obviously that was written in 2010, but I find that with 128GB I definitely have to think about where I'm putting stuff. This is especially the case for software which steadfastly refuses to be installed anywhere but the system drive (looking at you, Visual Studio).
It doesn't cover base models that can be upgraded to match the constraints.
E.g.: If I add a constraint "laptops with at least 16 GB of RAM" it doesn't show the Retina MacBook Pro 13". Only the 15" model is shown, because there is a default configuration with said amount of RAM.
Because of this, it is pretty useless unfortunately for those that customize their laptops when buying online. This is most useful for those that just want to go into a store and buy something off the shelf, but then having this online isn't that useful.
Well, it's a handy tool, although I think it's missing some other filters (battery life, GPU / CPU performance... and the obvious "Has SSD as primary storage" filter.
Very nice, sadly it also illustrates that it's pretty hard to get the laptop you want.
Most of the features I want are sort of "anti-features". No stupid touch stuff, no "this converts into a table", no numpad, no special media keys, no Windows only hardware, no VGA. Add to that: Must be well built, you pretty much left with nothing.
It's nice to see screen resolutions getting high though. For a long time it seems that you had to go with a MacBook to get a higher resolution without paying over $3000.
Thanks for this, it sure is helpful
I'm not a fan of this data visualization, though.
Here is my comment on it for "The tourist map of flash drives" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7465980):
"IMHO you shouldn't do it in a grid, it's confusing as a graphic and in some cases results in wrong representation of the data (which every graphical representation of data should avoid), for example, outliers can be too close to "normal" data, distance between two points is not representative of actual variables variation (sorry for alliteration), overlapping points seem to be different and you can't infer a drive price/cost to be better than other unless they share one coordinate(the worst, because that's the purpose of the graphic)
I'd say your points need to be smaller or you need to use less points in order to represent your data correctly.(...)"
I would add this time that the chart screen size vs price doesn't make sense to me. I would rather have a compound metric for performance/value in lieu of screen size. This would be made according to "weights" attributed by the user against the several aspects of a laptop, so, for me, screen resolution and memory would be the most valued, followed by HD capacity.
I'm trying to give constructive criticism here, because I believe you have something really good that needs some polishing. The fact that you made this in its current state is already applause worthy. It can be better but it already provides a very good service.
Didn't see mine on there (Asus N56JR). I do something similar on Newegg and Microcenter's site when I shop for a laptop for myself or someone else--narrow down based on specific specs I want and then compare the results based on reviews and other details.
I wanted something I could use for mobile DJing/VJing and some 2d/3d content creation capability. I was looking for 15" or larger, i7, decent nVidia GPU, 16GB RAM, 1920x1080 or better, and at least 500GB storage.
The Asus uses a 1TB HDD and not a SSD and the display is OK but not amazing. Still, it was tough to find something similar for anywhere near the $900 it cost and the relatively good build quality. It's obviously aping the look of a Macbook but since I have stock in neither company that's not really important to me. Couldn't find much else with those specs without spending several hundred dollars more.
I got the N56VZ a while back and I found it using the same method. If you don't use the blu-ray drive (and who does, really?) it's pretty trivial to swap it out with a new drive caddy. I put the HDD in there because I heard people had trouble booting from the caddy and put in a SSD where the HDD was. This [1] is the caddy I used, and swapping out the face plate with the original is pretty easy. Considering the price of the machine in the first place, why not throw a second drive in there.
Not sure if mine has Blu-ray. Think it's only DVD but I don't own any Blu-ray discs anyway. Figured if I ever really need it or want a simple-ish upgrade I'll just swap the HDD out for a SSD at some point.
Either way it works for what I use it for. It's not my main workhorse so it doesn't need to be as fast as humanly possible. Just need to be able to handle fairly processor or graphically intensive tasks outside of the house. For the sub-$1k price it was a good deal. Macbook had a few more bells and whistles that I didn't need but cost a good deal more.
FYI: a spec error
Toshiba Satellite S55T-B5260 15.6-Inch
Stated Resolution: 3840 x 2160
Actual Resolution: 1366 x 768
I thought I found an amazing laptop for a second there...(sad trombone)
The toshiba website states it can be upgraded to 1920x1080[1]
There's 2 other Toshiba Satellites that also may be off...
Otherwise, I really like this, I've always wanted to build a laptop search tool / website.
Feature Request: I would love a flag to say weather the ram/hdd is upgradable. Also, maximum ram would be helpful (aside from installed ram)
All I want is modern Thinkpad hardware (i7, 16GB or more RAM, at least 1080 screen, but hopefully 16:10 high res) with an X201 design. Even a T420 design would do.
I'd pay a few hundred bucks for an aftermarket keyboard/trackpad system to replace the crap Lenovo ships.
I wonder why it is not easy anymore to find a 15 inch laptop with resolution above 1366x768. Right now I am using a 4 years old laptop with 15 inch matte screen and 1680x1050 resolution which for me are the perfect specs for laptop regarding screen. They dont the sell these specs anymore. It seems they abandoned big resolutions at 15 inches, and to get more than 1366x768 you have to go at 17 inches. Maybe there is an exception or two, but in previous years, there were a lot of models featuring 1400x1050 or 1680x1050 at 15 inches. Anyone knows why?
On the left, type between 14 and 16 inch, on the y-axis choose DPI. The upper half of the screen is filled with a lot of laptops that meet your criteria then.
There are a lot of laptops on Amazon with missing or wrong specs. Im planning to have a "suggest spec changes" button, so we can have crowd-fixed-data.
Gnod Things is my "map products" project. This is my latest iteration. Now you can change the axis and filter for parameters. Any feedback is much appreciated.
That's really a handy tool when looking to buy a new laptop. But since I already did it last week, I was wondering if you plan to do the same thing for smartphone ;)
Thanks for putting the time and effort into collating and normalizing all this data, and making it accessible to the rest of us.
One peeve though, it seems you've missed what is probably the most important criteria in selection a laptop, for active users: Namely, the screen resolution. I can limit by physical panel size, and make educated guesses, but that's pretty useless.
Please, consider adding a few categories for screen resolution of the platforms!
I used to be into affiliate marketing back in the datafeed hey-days on Google. Now in order to succeed in this business you need to come up with something viral and useful. I think this is a very good example. I'm not sure this can compete with something like retailmenot in terms of revenue, but it's certainly an innovation.
I really try not to buy consumer (or shoddy business) equipment that falls apart within two years. I wonder if someone has aggregated average lifetime to failure, because that would be very meaningful to me as an axis to consider before purchase.
Great idea. This exists, but all similar concepts lack a lot of search abilities/filters. What I'd like is noise levels in dB as I'm only interested in (require) silent machines. Would that be possible?
Great idea, well executed. Others have made good suggestions to make it better. I agree with those who have asked for more and more specific search options.
Very nice, thanks. Comparable price to the Thinkpad (my current favorite). The only think missing is the button mouse (probably the reason Thinkpads are my favorite), but I just picked up a Logitech T650 trackpad this week, and am forcing myself to get used to it, due to RSI issues. By gosh, this looks like it just might work!
It's worth noticing that Apple is the only one providing high-end 11" devices. The computing industry should take note - quality is more important than size.
11.6" 2560 x 1440 touchscreen (can be rotated to use as a tablet) with similar weight and size as the macbook airs. The 11" and 13" MBAs have crappy screens
But then you're trying to sell a chunky ugly piece of plastic next to a sleek sexy piece of metal. The number of Apple devices you see out in the wild (outside of an office) vs other brands of laptops bears this out - in the laptop industry there's Apple and then there's everybody else.
>* The number of Apple devices you see out in the wild (outside of an office) vs other brands of laptops bears this out* //
None? Doesn't it just depend where you are. I see no (alright very few) Apple laptops as people I know aren't made of money. Some students get them when they first start college/uni because they've not budgeted correctly ... but that's about it.
Resolution in DPI also would be helpful.
Some indicator of whether it's configurable would also be helpful... but then, this is just an Amazon affiliate play and I guess that Amazon doesn't offer the full range of config options so are you just restricting the results to that which is available via Amazon?
Edit: Just found DPI as a side selector on the axis picker.