This is going to devolve into a flame war. I did read EW's speech and it was really good. She was talking about equality and problems that both genders face, and the courage and danger one has and will experience when doing something like this. HOWEVER, we can't just blame 4Chan. Anonymous message boards provide a bellwether for attitudes, even at the fringe. 4chan represents freedom of speech and expression for those on the channel, AND an insight into problems society faces. People are dissatisfied with the flavor of Feminism that does #killallmen(real trend) and crucified the scientists who developed the nail polish GHB test. 4chan and radfems represent the fringes of these groups, and it is important to have visibility for both in order to 1: define free speech, 2: better evaluate the middle (where most actors actually belong)
"Free speech" gets more generally interpreted every day. On the internet it often means "any casual thought expressed in any way at all". It could mean something more restricted and still result in a functioning society.
Btw "free speech" as an American ideal is rooted in the government not interfering. It still allows private citizens to support/ignore/not publish anything they don't care to.
Also her speech was really good. Usually 'personalities' don't express themselves nearly that well.
What role do anonymous forums play in the macro problem of the lack of female leadership? A big one.
We, as a community of innovators, need to stop these online communities of 'hackers against women' from existing because their threats, like the nude leaking of emma watson photos, prevent women from being public figures, starting companies and sadly participating in a huge chunk of the internet. Read below an excerpt from the article:
"Those three problems — women being threatened, women being pressured to change their own behavior to avoid sexual assault, and women being told that they don't deserve protection unless they stay pure and ladylike — are all individually terrible. But together, they add up to something even worse: a vicious cycle that pressures women out of public life. When we tell women that the threats and attacks they experience are their own fault, for failing to be sufficiently chaste or failing to take "responsible" precautions, we are telling them that they are on their own: that they cannot rely on society's protection against those crimes. How many women hear that message and decide that they have no choice but to give up that activist campaign or to turn down that higher-profile job or to hold off on writing that article? How hard will it be for UN Women to recruit its next Goodwill Ambassador?"
While I sympathise, I will point out that you're just feeding the trolls.
The online anonymous forums are annoying and intrusive, yes, but ultimately they're a bunch of idiots throwing peanuts at each other. If you stop paying them any attention then magically they stop existing.
Yes, call out bad behaviour when we see it. Yes, push prosecutions for hacking phones. And yes, let women know that we support them and provide a counter-voice to the burbling shite from the trolls.
But every single time we get all enraged and call for 4chan to be banned, we make the trolls happy. It's impossible to stop them from talking to each other, because internet. So "banning" them will not achieve anything except give them outlaw status that they'll enjoy and that will attract more idiots.
If you need a positive way to look at it, then think of it as a sign of how far we've come. We've actually made people uncomfortable with how much we've managed to change society, so they're now trying to push back. The best thing to do is ignore them and keep going :)
within many anonymous forum networks there are sub groups specifically catered to the mens rights activists crowd and other groups of male internet comrades who do terrible things like threaten emma watson with releasing nude photos of her because she had the guts to speak up for women's rights.
The entire internet is not a 'hackers against women' online community because more than 50% of internet users are women.
Everything else you've said is so insanely misogynist there is no point in addressing it. Just so you know, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. You are the troll. You are what keep women from participating on forums like this. Try to stop holding women to standards of social responsibility and start holding yourself accountable for why we feel so threatened online.
You also need to read this thread. Keep scrolling down the thread there's some good information.
Review the research about male vs female reproductive fitness, male genetic traits being at the top and bottom, risk taking, etc.
Claiming 4chan or reddit unanimously support the Emma Watson stuff is stupid. You can be a very heavy user of 4chan, not hang out in /b/, and be completely unaware of the Emma Watson site. Similarly with reddit.
The site threatening Watson was greeted with glee on 4chan and Reddit, where
commenters explicitly stated their hope that the threats would force her to
abandon her feminist campaigning.
The plural of anecdote is not data. There are misogynist commenters on 4chan and reddit, but using a handful of idiots to characterize everyone on those boards verges on nutpicking. And Amanda, if you're reading this, I'd bet good money the reason people don't argue with the misogynists on those sites is the same reason you don't wrestle with pigs. I assume moot uses /b/ as an asshole sink: the assholes go there, make a lot of noise, and hopefully leave the rest of 4chan alone.
I agree with the rest of her article -- the US and world are often quite hostile to women, and it's still true that a woman who sleeps around is a slut but a guy who sleeps around is a stud. Hopefully the Emma site is just some dickhead with $7 for godaddy and too much time on his hands who figured out a way to troll a ton of people.
I wish I knew the correct response to the people who deluge outspoken women with rape threats. Perhaps part of the answer is George Tierney of South Carolina [1].
To be clear- I AM NOT saying that reddit or 4chan supports these communities. I love reddit. I just think it's time we stop saying well it's the "internet" so trolls will be trolls and women just have to 'deal' with it.
We can say 'no, this is unacceptable behavior' and not allow violent threats against women to be tolerated on the platforms that we love.
You should know there's also racism on the web, vulgar pictures of Mohammed, massive amounts of patent law violations, criticism of govts, violent threats against every race class and walk of life on a microsecond basis.
Yet somehow offended rich first world women is finally the 'intolerable' situation big enough to "not allow on the platforms that we love."
Please.
Trolls are the canary on the coal mine signaling a free uncensored internet. You should be grateful for them.
And yes you do have to suck it up and deal with it just like everybody else.
Which apparently isn't a problem for Jennifer Lawrence.
I agree that people should do what they can to act civily, however, The internet is not a "safe space" it is A SPACE. It is the core of freedom of speech. Things like threats, the suggestion of violence, and otherwise illegal activities are NEVER ACCEPTABLE. Misogyny always has a place in America as long as free speech stands. Freedom is the most important tenet of out society.
> The internet is not a "safe space" it is A SPACE.
I don't see why we can't work toward making it a "safer space" without censorship. I think we should call out misogynistic, ablist, transphobic, etc. statements wherever we see them. Even if it doesn't convince the poster, at least it lets other readers know that these are not attitudes that we, as a society, think are acceptable.
> I don't think society as a whole agrees with you. In real life, people are negatively sanctioned for saying offensive things, and the PC culture has lead to many people hiding their true beliefs.
This has nothing to with PC. It's about respecting other humans.
As I explicitly said, I actually don't care if you (impersonal "you", obviously!) post vile hateful content (and I support your right to do so), but I also think we should encourage everyone to counter those posts, everywhere we see them.
> There isn't one contiguous unit called society that has norms. Groups, cliques, races, ethnicities are all social constructs that have varying mores and values. No one will agree on what is acceptable.
Well, actually we do. It's called "law". We have this continual process of refinement, repeals, further refinements that leads to some approximation of what "society" deems acceptable. Thus we have "hate speech" laws, and such.
> So if you feel you want to enforce your own personal beliefs on others, that is fine
