2. PHP was never designed to even support objects in the first place. The API is super inconsistent in terms of parameter ordering and naming. Contrast that with the vast majority of the STL. Sources for the zillion ABI incompatibilities comment?
3. How about, oh, IDK, OpenGL being a C interface. Lua? The Linux kernel? X11? Driver interfaces in general?
4. The big presupposition here is that it's a bad language. Honestly, I'd like to see you design a language that does what C++ allows you to do much better.
5. C was arguably way better put together than Perl was. Perl is an abomination to be honest.
6. What are the use cases of C++ compared to PHP? C++ is used to do things like author renderers, or physics engines, or mathematical simulations. Trust me when I say that attempting to accomplish any of those to the same volume with the same hardware on PHP is madness.
1. Except for self-inflicted constraints that don't match the problem domain. Which leads to…
3. OpenGL, Lua FFI, Linux… have nothing to do with source compatibility with C. And everything to do with ABI compatibility. C-with-classes was a preprocessor that generated C code remember? That pretty much guaranteed ABI compatibility, since it was then compiled by the same C compiler.
But what did it matter if the pre-processor where also capable of parsing plain C? It doesn't! We have a C compiler, why not just use that? If stroustrup wanted to, he could have replaced the braces and semicolons by mandatory indentation, Python style, and lose zero backward compatibility in the process. Or at least, no compatibility that actually matters.
Source compatibility was a useless constraint that lead to a painful language. From the user's point of view, the difference between a useless constraint and a bad design choice is nil.
Now I will concede one advantage of source compatibility: learning curve in the extremely short term. If you don't even have a few hours to learn a different syntax, it makes sense. But if your intend to use a language for more than 2 weeks, it's silly to suffer any long term cost just because you don't want to pay that learning cost up front.
Source compatibility provides an upgrade path. This was useful when C++ was introduced, because it allows you to take an existing C program and incrementally start using C++ features. You could claim this is less important today, but I have a counter example. Look at gcc. It used to be written in C, but switched to C++ recently. Try that with mandatory indentation.
Upgrade path? Easy as pie! Just parse the C source, then pretty-print a mandatory-indentation version. As long as the new language has all the semantics of C, converting from one syntax to another is trivial. And if you insist on "incremental", you can do this one module at a time.
Seriously, stop listening to your guts and look at the facts.
As for gcc setting up some kind of example for upgrading to C++… C and C++ are low-level systems languages. They are not suitable for static compilers. While I understand bootstrap as a validation technique, it is not worth the hassle of suffering such a mismatch between the language and the problem domain.
Static compilers should be written in an ML dialect, or Haskell, or maybe Lisp. C and C++ have no business here. And if you really want the bootstrap thing, then you should also implement a DSL that compiles to C or C++, and use that to make your compiler.
Okay, if you literally have all the semantics of C, your idea works. But if you have ALL the semantics of C, why bother changing the syntax?
As for ML and company being a better choice than C++ for writing a compiler... There may well be convincing arguments for this position, and if I asked you, no doubt you'd give me some. But I'll ask something else instead. Most compilers I heard of are written in C or C++. Name me a compiler written in ML/Haskell/Lisp. There's just one rule: no bootstrapping. Meaning that if you show me a compiler for ML written in Haskell, that's fine, but a Lisp compiler written in Lisp is not.
> But if you have ALL the semantics of C, why bother changing the syntax?
Two reasons: first, change what sucks (like the useless clutter with braces and semicolons, or the switches that fall through by default). Second, add more features on top of what we have.
As much as I hate C++, we do live in a C dominated world, and C is… limited. The lack of a usable generics system is crippling. C++'s destructors really help with semi-automatic clean up. And it would be good to have a module system, and maybe built-in support for algebraic data types. (I must not overdo it: if I end up turning C into ML, I should use ML. Or Rust.)
> if I asked you, no doubt you'd give me some.
I'll give you one: Algebraic data types, which are virtually unmatched at representing abstract syntax trees, and basically any intermediate representation a compiler can come up with. Other arguments here: http://flint.cs.yale.edu/cs421/case-for-ml.html
> There's just one rule: no bootstrapping.
Of the top of my head, I don't recall any compiler that doesn't bootstrap. In any case, I fully expect that most compilers are indeed written in C and C++, not in ML or Haskell: C and C++ are that popular.
I also happen to think our industry as a whole is mostly nuts, retarded, and short-sighted.
You may well be right about that last part. But still, perhaps one day someone will write a C compiler in ML in record time and get people's attention.
2. PHP was never designed to even support objects in the first place. The API is super inconsistent in terms of parameter ordering and naming. Contrast that with the vast majority of the STL. Sources for the zillion ABI incompatibilities comment?
3. How about, oh, IDK, OpenGL being a C interface. Lua? The Linux kernel? X11? Driver interfaces in general?
4. The big presupposition here is that it's a bad language. Honestly, I'd like to see you design a language that does what C++ allows you to do much better.
5. C was arguably way better put together than Perl was. Perl is an abomination to be honest.
6. What are the use cases of C++ compared to PHP? C++ is used to do things like author renderers, or physics engines, or mathematical simulations. Trust me when I say that attempting to accomplish any of those to the same volume with the same hardware on PHP is madness.