Suffer? Do you know any Russians? Have you ever been there? They don't seem to suffer more than US people or Europeans to me. Well they have a ton of stupid laws, lead wars, etc., but again that's also true for the US and many other countries.
Like in most countries (again, including the US) it depends a lot on your political views, gender, exact position (Texas vs north), etc.
Of course it's not Scandinavia, but I feel like which politician you consider evil tends to mostly depends on whose propaganda you get.
I get that certain things are worse and that Russia is poorer and stuff, so that sucks and that they don't care for a lot of rights, but then you look at Afghan and Iraq war, look at Guantanamo, random police violence or the state of lethal punishments and things are put into perspective, seeing that they just have different problems, but not really more.
Also historically Eastern countries tend have been worse at hiding relations between private and political interests, how media is manipulated or how it's always the same kind of politics, regardless of votes. That's true. In Russia censorship is direct, while in the US you have DMCA take downs, national security letters, secret law interpretations, etc.
About democracy/parties: All bigger countries (China, Russia, US, ...) appear to have basically one major party with the same opinion and different branches of opinions in this party. Since they are actually mentioned in media, while opposition is not there is no serious chance for any opposition. This leads political stagnation in all of them. The US has two branches, not agreeing on exact spendings, but both pro-war, pro-capital-punishment, pro-capitalism, pro-neo-liberalism, privatized prisons and against human rights in the sense of international courts, welfare system (basic infrastructure, free/cheap water/education) ... They are very nationalist. Something also unique to super powers.
That may sound like something bad, but it seems to be a necessity to keep big societies at least somewhat stable. History has shown that.
I might be missing something though, so please tell me how Russians suffer more than people in another (non-scandinavian) country.
I agree on the oil part. Gas too. But again compare that with other countries, the US goes on war for oil and gas, pressuring Europe via imports. I agree, Europe being more independent from such things would be a good thing.
It seems that a lot of the bad stuff in countries depends a lot on their age and actual size. China is the oldest and population wise biggest country, requiring the most control for stability, having the most troubles, followed by India with slightly less population, but big age, less control, but therefor way bigger problems, followed by Russia and the US, where the US has a bigger population, but is also way younger than Russia.
Russia is a lot like the US with a big tea party. I guess that's their main problem, but then even with Putin it was just as much of an up and down as with Bush and Obama.
I just really don't think that things will change so quickly, neither in the US, nor in Russia. However, I think they are doing an equally good/bad job in regard to their current circumstances, making the US a better place to live, but maybe not too much. A liberal movement in Russia, pushing Putin into one direction and a stronger tea party with a republican president in the US could change that.
Even though both countries are rivals they don't seem to be that dissimilar, just US having a couple of benefits (world language, winning various wars in the past century, ...). China could take that lead in the next decades, especially when Russia and the US keep fighting like that.
The Russians I know all fought to stay in the States. Things are getting worse according to them and they were already bad. The coming sanctions will make things worse but it is better than a full on war with Russia. Despite being backwards they are still well armed. Without Putin maybe they could become more like Europe. They certainly can't while he is in power paying off his cronies and supporting brainless stooges in Ukraine.
It may make feel better to pretend that the US is as bad as Russia but you probably know you are lying to yourself.
> The Russians I know all fought to stay in the States.
Russia or Soviet Union? The thing is I also know Jews who fled to the US from Europe (Germany, Poland, France, Austria, ...) in WW2 and came back. The same thing happened in the Soviet Union, the DDR, etc.
Things changed since then. I know Russians visiting every now and then. They know all the things that suck about Russia, like I stated. The worst thing currently appears to be the anti-homosexual laws and gangs and people flee because of that.
Anyway, we seem to know different people then. ;)
Speaking about fleeing: There are even Crimean people fleeing to Russia or US citizens, such as Snowden.
> It may make feel better to pretend that the US is as bad as Russia but you probably know you are lying to yourself.
I usually don't quote myself, but... "I get that certain things are worse and that Russia is poorer and stuff, so that sucks "
But again: What makes you think that getting rid of one single person changes that much? There is a whole regime. Yes, we could use other examples, but I think here on HN most people know the US the best. If Obama would get killed lets say by some leftist socialist terrorist or some Islamist, whatever, do you really think the US would become socialist or Islamic? No? Why do you think that killing Putin would then change things?
If you go back in history only a couple of years and look at the DDR: No political action, no big sanctions, cold or hot war changed something. It was more the ordinary people who changed things making nations tremble. Can go really fast.
And why so defensive? Aren't the statements about all these things being really bad true, war and murder, not caring about people in general and spreading hate, disinformation and fear by one nation is just as bad as by another. I know, hardcore nationalist on both sides may never understand that, but I'd think the average Hacker News reader isn't that blinded by propaganda. Come on, you don't really think killing someone really solves a problem. Just means the next person in a row takes a seat there. Doesn't mean that person is better. Look at North Korea or China. Did things really change to the better with switching leaders? Yeah, things sometimes switch but usually it's kinda switched. One thing will be better, but someone else things come up. Russia reduced weapons, pretty much abolished death penalty and wages less war, using gas sanctions, while reducing civil freedoms. Actually that is also a bit like in the US. Civil freedoms (even though stuff like freedom of expression, privacy, protests, ...) reduced and in most states there is no lethal punishment anymore. China still is really bad to any opposition, has the death penalty (with extremely long queues), lots of censorship, harassment of opposition, but has more economic freedoms, a... well, at least for the population living in cities good welfare systems, while reducing other rights.
The problem is that when we always point at the worst spot we will end up being the worst. Instead comparing with the best should be the goal. Scandinavia was just an example, since they really are on top of things currently, but also New Zealand and others seem to be on top of things.
In the West governments have a balance of power, especially the US. Opposing Putin in Russia means no business and death by Polonium. I am not sure why you wish to defend a murderous dictator, the people of Russia deserve European style freedom and as long as glorious Putin is alive they will have none.
Russians have a cursed capacity for suffering and I don't blame them for being afraid of Putin, but eventually someone should take him out for the sake of the country. The longer the citizens of Russia are denied basic freedoms the more irrelevant Russia becomes. There is no need for this besides Putin's greed.
Like in most countries (again, including the US) it depends a lot on your political views, gender, exact position (Texas vs north), etc.
Of course it's not Scandinavia, but I feel like which politician you consider evil tends to mostly depends on whose propaganda you get.
I get that certain things are worse and that Russia is poorer and stuff, so that sucks and that they don't care for a lot of rights, but then you look at Afghan and Iraq war, look at Guantanamo, random police violence or the state of lethal punishments and things are put into perspective, seeing that they just have different problems, but not really more.
Also historically Eastern countries tend have been worse at hiding relations between private and political interests, how media is manipulated or how it's always the same kind of politics, regardless of votes. That's true. In Russia censorship is direct, while in the US you have DMCA take downs, national security letters, secret law interpretations, etc.
About democracy/parties: All bigger countries (China, Russia, US, ...) appear to have basically one major party with the same opinion and different branches of opinions in this party. Since they are actually mentioned in media, while opposition is not there is no serious chance for any opposition. This leads political stagnation in all of them. The US has two branches, not agreeing on exact spendings, but both pro-war, pro-capital-punishment, pro-capitalism, pro-neo-liberalism, privatized prisons and against human rights in the sense of international courts, welfare system (basic infrastructure, free/cheap water/education) ... They are very nationalist. Something also unique to super powers.
That may sound like something bad, but it seems to be a necessity to keep big societies at least somewhat stable. History has shown that.
I might be missing something though, so please tell me how Russians suffer more than people in another (non-scandinavian) country.
I agree on the oil part. Gas too. But again compare that with other countries, the US goes on war for oil and gas, pressuring Europe via imports. I agree, Europe being more independent from such things would be a good thing.
It seems that a lot of the bad stuff in countries depends a lot on their age and actual size. China is the oldest and population wise biggest country, requiring the most control for stability, having the most troubles, followed by India with slightly less population, but big age, less control, but therefor way bigger problems, followed by Russia and the US, where the US has a bigger population, but is also way younger than Russia.
Russia is a lot like the US with a big tea party. I guess that's their main problem, but then even with Putin it was just as much of an up and down as with Bush and Obama.
I just really don't think that things will change so quickly, neither in the US, nor in Russia. However, I think they are doing an equally good/bad job in regard to their current circumstances, making the US a better place to live, but maybe not too much. A liberal movement in Russia, pushing Putin into one direction and a stronger tea party with a republican president in the US could change that.
Even though both countries are rivals they don't seem to be that dissimilar, just US having a couple of benefits (world language, winning various wars in the past century, ...). China could take that lead in the next decades, especially when Russia and the US keep fighting like that.