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Why Gooseberry, the open animation film, matters (blender.org)
111 points by unwind on March 31, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 39 comments



>> There's a real growing unrest out there about how a few greedy people control [the movie] business - making their billions

Those greedy people understand the importance of "story." The Gooseberry trailer showed no promise there. The industry story telling isn't always that great but I could see none in the Blender trailer.

If this is just a technical showcase label it such. The early pixar public demos were such but their stories were so great audiences looked forward to the five minute delay to see them before the main feature.


The quote goes on and in fact references the "Rhythm & Hues" VFX company that won the Oscar for work on "Life of Pi" visual effects. While at the same time filing for bankruptcy and firing 238 employees. (Life of Pi made $609mil worldvide on budget of $120mil.) Those greedy people.


Isn't that just bad business? It sucks they went bankrupt but if you're working on a film of that size and can't make a profit you've either spent a huge amount of money and the profits you get from the film don't cover it or you've worked out a shitty deal and you get very little profits from the movie.


To a degree - but VFX companies are pretty much forced to underbid themselves in order to get contracts in the first place.

Several companies (Cinesite is a prime example - they underbid on John Carter heavily) underbid in the hope they'll be picked for future films as well.

And because VFX is generally the last (ignoring final grading) part of doing a film (occasionally the VFX for shots is still being done up to 2 weeks before the film's released), there's a hard deadline set that the VFX companies most of the time have to meet.

Often, while doing the VFX, the director's changed their mind several times regarding what they actually want, and any planning / previz that was done to agree on the shot is wasted, as is a lot of the work that was done do get to that point. You can often reuse assets and stuff, but that's about it if there's a change of plans.

Thankfully over the past few years, previz of VFX is getting more and more realistic (in terms of animation / layout - the look is still quite crap), giving directors a more accurate view of what they'll be getting at the end.


tl;dr It's a hugely oversupplied market and having good business skills to navigate such a scenario and write smart contracting agreements is important.


This 30min documentation explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lcB9u-9mVE The problem is in the way the industry is organized.


Former R&H'er here. The VFX industry is plagued with three major issues: 1) it's a work for hire business with no equity participation, 2) up front bidding on dynamic deliverables, and 3) international government tax incentives create a nomadic existence for VFX people and the companies who have to chase the work from country to country (who ever offers the better tax incentive at the moment.)


As former R&H employee, do you find blender to be usable or are there big missing features? Does it's open source nature make it more usable because you can patch whatever you want, or are things like Maya customizable enough? Blender and Maya are both scriptable in Python. Blender uses Python 3. Would you say Python 3 was a good decision?


Besides the problem illustrated in LIFE AFTER PI I think that AutoDesk seems to buy up all/most of the competition is a bit worry some and every bit of more competition is a good thing.


Yep, Autodesk just recently announced that they were shutting down Softimage, after promising they would not shut it down post-acquisition. They are a plague on the VFX software industry.


Well, Rhythm and Hues used their own proprietary software for just about everything other than texture painting (Mari), so that doesn't really apply here.


I mentioned two different problems. One of them was that there is not enough diversity in 3D software. If you say that Rhythm and Hues used their own software, now that they are no more this means that there is even less diversity. So what does not apply here? I'm not sure you got what I meant and if that's so then I don't understand what you thought that I meant.


That VFX companies often write their own software (happening less and less these days) to do something commercial packages can't - or at the very least heavily customise something like Maya.

So the lack of diversity in software for VFX doesn't hurt the big studios that much.


Now I understand what you meant.


Whatever the hype, Gooseberry is a demonstration of technical and economic feasibility.

Stories are cheap, lots of people are out there who have great ideas for movies but just can't realize them for technical and economic reasons


Ideas for stories are cheap. Fleshing those ideas out to a great story/film takes rare talent.


I wish I could upvote this more than once.

Story is the last thing in the world we should be undervaluing. Look at Pixar. Pixar made some fantastic advances in animation. That's not the only reason, or even the primary reason, why its movies perform so well. They do well because they are exceptionally well written, they have heart, and they are firing on all creative cylinders: tech, writing, directing, acting, post production, music, etc. John Lassiter himself will often credit story with the success of his movies.

Ideas for movies are cheap, just like ideas for tech companies are cheap. But story execution is extraordinarily hard, every bit as hard as putting the effects together.

My guess is that a lot of folks don't understand how hard writing great fiction can be. So they tend to dismiss it. They take it for granted. Or they over-attribute the success of their favorite movies, books, etc., to the elements that are most immediately visible: the actors, the effects, the direction, etc. All of these things are important, but they'd be entirely worthless without a strong story. Michael Bay movies are fantastic examples of what happens when you combine A-list actors with AAA special effects while devaluing story.


I don't know what you mean by "stories are cheap" but popular movies with great, unique storylines are extraordinarily rare (yes, that's equally the audience's fault). Most top grossers are sequels or derivative of other properties (comic books, teen fiction, etc).


There are literally millions of people out there who dream feverishly of selling their stories and a decent number have good material, because it's work that people would pay to do.


Wait, what about Sintel? Didn't it have a story?


Of course, but it wasn't really strong.


A movie industry isn't going to produce "really strong" until it is cranking out piles of movies every year. Even then, most of what's produced will be total crap.


One of the Blender video projects that I really liked was En Passant[0]. Although it was a short movie (only around 15 minutes) it tells a powerful story, and shows some of the impressive capacity of Blender.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7HI1Ujx7B8


Did you mean this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfezG5M2ICg, teaser when you mentioned a trailer?

I think you do it a disservice to say that it showed no promise - a mysterious force has transformed cartoon sheep in to other things, they don't know why, or who they are, one expresses a desire to go home. What happened, how, why; how will that cute little lamb get home? Seems to be on the right lines for a framework for an animated story: I assume what I linked was directed mainly at creatives rather than consumers.


I've been attached to the Blender community since 1998 or so (had it running on Irix at one point, and still have one of the original manuals).

The slight rise of it, but mainly the consolidation of Maya, 3DS Max and Softimage all under the Autodesk roof has been curious to watch. (It's a more extreme variant of the stagnation resulting from Adobe's now dominance of DTP, especially after effectively killing Freehand). What was a space in the mid 90s where software would cost tens of thousands per seat has experienced massive decline, despite the growth in consumers of end product. Those historically high barriers to entry protected the VFX studios of the era, granting them a degree of stability they haven't had since about 2000.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, but I have no idea what it is.


Maybe that FOSS is slow and steady, but slow and steady should win the race... Eventually.


Or, formatted nicely on the website: http://gooseberry.blender.org/why-gooseberry-matters/


Thanks. I learned of this from the Blender developers' mailing list, didn't think to look for a website article.


I hope they get better writers than the one they made with the robots.. I know it's important to show off the tech, but make it fun to watch too!


I enjoyed Tears of Steel, a little crazy and wacky with the robotic romance stuff, but then I like a little crazy now and then.


IIRC Yeah they did, they got back write of "Sintel" back. She and director "Mathieu Auvray" and still churning on the story. src: http://www.blenderguru.com/podcast-interview-with-gooseberry...


Here's a podcast interview of the Gooseberry director: http://www.blenderguru.com/podcast-interview-with-gooseberry...


So, I got all excited about funding this, and went to their page[0] to see what funding options are available. Unfortunately, there's nothing there that's reasonably priced and exclusive. I'm not a film maker - I'm a film watcher - but I'd love to see more open technology for making films come out and reduce the barrier to entry, so that I can find more of what I enjoy. I just can't justify giving away a significant amount of money without getting something in return. $25.60 to get to see a film a few days before everyone else is not worth it.

Compare that to something like The Mechanisms's new album's Kickstarter[1]. If you pay anything more than £15, you get unique stuff that ties into the world, from patches and t-shirts to toys, books and bags. The point is that you won't be able to get this stuff once the album's finished.

While I get that Gooseberry is likely to be a large and extremely ambitious project, I think that if it's to meet its goals, it needs to provide something compelling for the majority of people who have no intention of making a film.

[0] https://cloud.blender.org/gooseberry/ [1] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1985371014/record-high-...


Usually if I feel like donating money to a project, I prefer that it goes into improving the project rather than into retail prices for t-shirts and toys etc. ymmv :/


I understand your point but the goal here is to get a better Blender and hopefully a successful demonstration of a new production model. These are the artifacts that tie into the world and hopefully that would mean you would see more entertainment and fun created for you in the future.


Well, there are t-shirts: http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/default_becool.php

But it is not directly linked with gooseberry. It's just a general blender "donation".


The price point is just too high. I'd give $5 or $10 without a thought, even if there were no benefits at all, but $25 is too much for an impulsive donation to a project.


The last option lets you pick an amount, I almost didn't see it myself.


I already pledged. And it is sad to see the campaign failing. Baring some very large scale donors, the progress is not enough to reach the goal...




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