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Nokia announces the X and X+, its first Android phones (engadget.com)
230 points by wzsddtc on Feb 24, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 188 comments



Ars Technica [1] put it best. These phones are dead on arrival.

    This is not the first time Nokia has done something like this. It released a 
    Meego version of the N9, its long-in-development Symbian successor, before 
    immediately abandoning the platform and switching to Windows Phone.
This isn't a sign of some deep strategy. It's just standard Nokia platform craziness.

1: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/nokia-to-release-an-a...


I wouldn't be so quick to discount this move. It could be a classic Microsoft embrace/extend/extinguish move. They lost the first round on mobile phone platforms, but this would allow them to very quickly create a platform that has developer support - after all, porting your apps from standard Android to an AOSP fork is easier than than porting it to Windows Phone. Especially as Microsoft/Nokia is pretty much the only organisation on the planet at the moment apart from Google and Apple that is capable of offering all of the same services that stock Android provides, making porting even easier for app developers.

The latest Android look and feel is not so different from Windows Phone either, once you actually get into the app. You could imagine a "Windows Phone" homescreen skin with Android Apps behind it, and it would be really quite a decent merger of the two environments, graphically speaking.

If they throw a bit of money around to encourage developers to undertake the (hopefully) relatively simple task of porting from stock Android, it's not impossible that they manage to get a pretty decent App Store together, which would solve the app problem for the otherwise fantastic Nokia hardware that they have been making these last few years.

Anyway, there's a lot of conditionals in the stuff that I've just written, none of it may come to pass, I'm just saying that it would be unwise to dismiss this effort without at least waiting a bit to see how it pans out.


Nokia is actually discouraging devs from using Windows Phone design patterns and encouraging Android design guidelines on the Nokia X.

http://developer.nokia.com/resources/library/nokia-x-ui/ux-c...


Design patterns for one platform make sense that they are downplayed where they don't fit.

Me ego was downplayed as WP came along, part of the game.

That said, this seems like an evolution of the saga low end line rather than the high end devices... Simply look at the cameras.


> I wouldn't be so quick to discount this move. It could be a classic Microsoft embrace/extend/extinguish move.

Except, unless I'm mistaken, MS doesn't actually own Nokia yet.

"On 2 September 2013, Microsoft announced its intent to purchase Nokia's mobile phone business unit" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia


> It could be a classic Microsoft embrace/extend/extinguish move.

The rules governing mergers actually prohibit Microsoft and Nokia from strategizing that kind of thing together until the merger is complete.


Microsoft's never been a stickler for the rules.


This is more about going after volume with Android and leaving Windows Phone to compete with iOS for the high-end market. But I guess that is exactly embrace/extend/extinguish except applied directly to the Android brand, which makes more sense than turning the screws on devs with constant platform headaches.


> after all, porting your apps from standard Android to an AOSP fork is easier than than porting it to Windows Phone

So is this REALLY Android if you need to port your applications to run on it? How much of what makes an Android phone Android is AOSP and how much is the Google services that sit on top of it?


This isn't necessarily Google services vs. AOSP. Since they aren't going through certification there's no guarantee they've gone through CTS tests (so they APIs may differ from stock Android, either in signature or functionality).


So it sounds like we have two Androids on the market now: Certified Android and not-quite-Android-but-still-mostly-Android.


No, there's one Android: the one certified by CTS and conforming to the CDD. You aren't allowed to use the name Android to describe your device without being certified as "Android-compatible".

From the FAQ on source.android.com:

"Is compatibility mandatory?

No. The Android Compatibility Program is optional. Since the Android source code is open, anyone can use it to build any kind of device. However, if manufacturers wish to use the Android name with their products, or want access to Google Play, they must first demonstrate their devices are compatible."


> ... which would solve the app problem for the otherwise fantastic Nokia hardware ...

The number of app on Windows Phone is no longer a problem. There are more than 240,000 Windows Phone apps as we speak.


It's not just about the quantity, but quality as well. Many of the major apps such as Uber, Lyft and Venmo are still missing, and the app store is still largely a joke with the hottest apps arriving significantly late - if ever.

As a Finn and a Nokia phone owner, I'd love the company to succeed. I'm just puzzled about the level of arrogance they still showcase, as if they know best what customers "should" want. For example, I visited Nokia offices past spring and a very senior level executive told to a group of developers and I how he doesn't understand why people even need apps like Instagram and "Chat Snap App" [sic] when the Nokia apps work just as fine or better.


While I don't care much about "app counts", the Windows Store is ... laughably bad. Common searches return tons of trademark violations, and obvious crap apps. Ugly junk.

The "number" was never a problem, and by optimizing for that metric, MS made their store into a gross place. A joke, as another comment puts it.


They kind of have to say that though, the same author wrote this:

"While Android is open, it's more of a "look but don't touch" kind of open. You're allowed to contribute to Android and allowed to use it for little hobbies, but in nearly every area, the deck is stacked against anyone trying to use Android without Google's blessing. The second you try to take Android and do something that Google doesn't approve of, it will bring the world crashing down upon you."

And his colleague wrote an article titled: "Neither Microsoft, Nokia, nor anyone else should fork Android. It’s unforkable."

So they'd look a bit silly writing about this in any other way.

Maybe it will get canned, but then before today I would have said that it was only for internal purposes, so scare Microsoft into buying them. Turns out I was wrong, and they went public with it.


They are kind of right. These phones are worthless in the US market or any high end market due to lack of Google Play. And that's where the profit margins are. Samsung is really the only player with enough vertical integration and scale to profit on the low end devices. Nokia is one of the very few vendors who can provide a competent maps app without Google Maps, but they are still producing a failure here due to not kissing Google's ring.


I wouldn't read too much into that. I'll say a lot of things about Peter, but he's not exactly afraid to admit he's wrong.


Well the idea was good the implementation sucks as usual. Android without the play store is not as useful or flexible and you can't compete with other budget phones which do have the play store so you're shooting yourself in the foot.

As log as there's an easy way for end users to put it on it shouldn't be such a big deal though.

What I suspect they are attempting to do is get back into the low budget phone market which they used to rule before they stupidly gave it up voluntarily and the only reason they are using Android is because it's the only one suitable for that hardware however this is not the old low end market they used to know.

Before it used to be acceptable to have only a few crap apps for phones but now even the low budget phones have access to the play store. I wonder if they will make it with this self inflicted handicap.


They have no option here - using Google's app store comes with severe attachments that Microsoft is not likely to accept.

My guess is that they are aiming at lower end of market where the price is important, and betting on developers to port their apps. Which could actually happen if porting is not a big issue.

OTOH, Google is putting more and more stuff in closed source part of OS, so the platforms will inevitably diverge. It might be a bit late for Nokia to do this... we'll see.


They have already proven that WP can run on low spec hardware though with the Lumia 520. It's also a 1GHz, 512MB RAM device.


Lumia 520 has MSM8227, it is not that low end. It is dual core Snapdragon S4 with Adreno 305. Nexus 7 (2013) is not that much powerful.


You can already get a brand new and unlocked Windows Phone for less than $100. Microsoft is already winning the low-end battle.


When did "having a product available" become "winning the battle"?


Nokia is clearly aiming the low end market in emerging country. I am not sure that market needs the play store as much as you seem to insinuate. Most of the services offered by the play store apps dont even work in a lot of developping countries.


So Nokia kills one platform/smartphone in the recent past and that means that this new line of phones is doomed? How are the two events linked? I don't see a connection. Products are born and killed everyday, just because company X has killed product Y in the past, doesn't mean that every future product will be killed in the same manor.

Also, N9 was an internally developed OS that was late, and Nokia was suffering. Axing something that is eating massive resources for an external vendor isn't in any way similar to Nokia introducing a low-cost alternative to their existing high end offerings.


Microsoft is about to buy Nokia. No way they're going to continue development of an Android phone.


Was this initiative started before or after the MS acquisition was planned and announced? While technically MS might not own them yet, it seems they have already built their product offerings around this partnership (and for some time now). Which would make the comparison to the internal N9 project being killed in favor of a new platform not as relevant.

This seems to me as a plan hatched after Nokia got into bed with MS as a plan to diversify.



huh? they already own Nokia



MeeGo was a) successor of Maemo on N900 (and other devices) and b) abandoned, because "burning bridges".


"burning platform" not "burning bridges" (although the number of bridges burned between Nokia leadership and employees, suppliers, developers, distributors/retailers and carriers was nothing short of astonishing. And catastrophic).


It was abandoned because "internal politics"


Funny how those internal politics are internal only now that MS bought Nokia, isn't it?


Nokia's got a long history of internal turf wars. I'm sure it was Symbian vs Meego without Microsoft being in the picture.


The all powerful, at the time anyway, Symbian team didn't like competition and did everything they could to muck up Maemo/Meego development.


That's not the proper chronology.

Nokia announced they were abandoning Symbian/MeeGo for Windows Phone BEFORE announcing and releasing the N9.


> differentiated experience

I still can't believe that decision makers actually believe that customers want that. Sure, it makes for great bullet points on the packaging, but most consumer in the lower segment just want something that is familiar to all the other stuff they have. Things you will never hear an Android user say: "That Samsung Whatever Cloud App is really useful.", "That second App Store of my carrier is full with great Apps.", and "I wish those buttons were even more different from my old Android phone".


I think Nokia's target market for these unAndroids is not existing Android users at all, but rather all those people who currently have a low-end Nokia. (There are literally billions of Nokia dumbphones in use around the world.)

Those users don't go into the shop thinking "I want stock Android" because they have no idea what that would even be. Rather they go by a trusted brand and the availability of well-known apps and games. If the price is right, Nokia's unAndroid may actually serve this market quite well.


These phones are specifically targeted at developing markets.


A Nokia device that supports Skype, WhatsApp, Facebook, Nokia's maps and so on has arguably the only competitive bundle of services to the Google one, even considering iOS.

I am amazed by the negativity around this announcement when the reality is Nokia should have been doing this from the beginning, but this is certainly going to make the low end market in the EU very interesting.


"I really enjoyed having to learn a different interface"

"It was great that all the directions about how to do stuff, that I found on the internet, didn't apply to my phone"

"I enjoyed having stock features removed from my phone so my carrier could charge me for them"


The problem is simply that the "differentiated experiences" end up being bad. Bad UX, bad integration in the platform, bad functionality, often gratuitiously duplicating existing features. If the manufacturer/carrier additions were actually good, people probably would be happy.

So the problem is boils down to Samsung/Nokia/... not realizing that they are not very good at building mobile phone software. That's probably also a hard sell internally.


Differentiated experience is the last resort of producers scrambling to avoid their products becoming low-profit commodities.

When all products look and feel the same way, competitors can only compete on price, at which point price wars lead to smaller profits for everyone.

Producers will always prefer selling ugly, profitable luxury products than standardised, razor-thin-margin commodities.


So Microsoft has a Linux distro. Interesting. Anybody care to hazard a guess what the future holds? My take is that this was well in development before the MS/Nokia deal went through (it has gone through, hasn't it?) and Microsoft were not (have not been) able to get it canned. Or, shock, horror, maybe Microsoft are testing the waters - they already make a bunch from Linux patents, maybe they want to see how much they'll make from App Store revenue if these gain a decent market share. When you think about it, Apple doesn't charge for iOS so if Microsoft start doing decent hardware sales maybe Microsoft will start considering its mobile operating system division this way. Given recent news that Microsoft has to discount Windows licences on lower cost hardware to compete with Chromebooks we're starting to see that Microsoft even though it is making money hand over fist is in an untenable position.

A few questions.

How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android?

How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs?

Are Nokia going to see this through? I think it is a smart play, if they go after it whole-heartedly like Amazon and provide a decent amount of differentiation. One could easily see Samsung going this route.


Microsoft (and their staff individually) actually contribute to the Linux kernel so this isn't that crazy.

You can already get office 365 for iOS. Not sure about android but it's logical.

This appears to be the budget/developing world side of things. I'd prefer to see WinPhone on low end devices to be honest - it's really good even on low spec handsets.

I see this as that much marketed "devices and services offering" they are always going on about. They're making a killing from Azure etc and Windows Live/outlook.com is the most mature and featureful cloud thing. They're actually shit hot these days.

I still prefer my old fashioned Unix way of life though as I don't want to become a paid up ecosystem slave.


Nobody I know uses Microsoft's lockin. Some prefer google's or apple's, but increasing numbers are trying to escape from being a data source for advertising and the NSA and ditching google, apple, and MS.


I agree that this is the next hurdle. To just from Microsoft's desktop embrace to Google's cloud embrace is to switch one master for another even though Google has shown itself to be an excellent open-source champion in terms of their Summer of Code effort and the amount of client (and server?) software they develop in the open. But lock-in is lock-in no matter how comfy the handcuffs.


To just _leap_ from

I must at least cursorily proofread my comments.

I must at least cursorily proofread my comments.

...


Microsoft had a Unix distro for a long time - Xenix. It was built as Microsoft's next generation OS, originally Microsoft thought they were going to migrate to it as their dominant platform as computers got faster. It was the most widespread version of Unix around in the late 1980s in terms of machine installs. Microsoft sold it to SCO in 1987.


> How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android?

Easily. My first thought on seeing the specs on those devices is that they are trying to position the Android offering as the cheap option: something for peopel who can't afford a proper phone. Want Office and the other big boy's toys? Then buy one of our Windows based devices instead.

> How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs?

They already do: while it looks like the Symbian based OS is officially dead, as are other alternatives like meego, "feature phones" from Nokia (such as the Asha range) are still being released based around the old S40 OS. Perhaps they are looking to retire this and see Android as an inexpensive way forward, that way someone else is developing the core OS and they just need to provide drivers and device specific tweaks (and an app store & such if not licensing Google's parts). There is certainly a project out there working on smoothly running apps targeting the S40 on Linux based devices (IIRC not funcded by Nokia, but the existence of the project indicatesit is possible) which would smooth the replacement.

They have to have a cheaper alternative to the WP devices unless they can release a WP device that can compete price-wise in those markets without diminishing the appearance of the more expensive kit or they lose the "chep-nokia-to-expensive-nokia upgrade path: people with another cheap Andoird device won't have any Nokia brand loyalty so they would be competing entirely directly with high-end Android and iOS devices in that instance and they need something to try make the move to WP more attractive than a move to iOS at that point because the public perception of WP8 is far behind that of Apple (and depending on who you talk to, high-end Android).

> Are Nokia going to see this through?

That is the big question, though the answer probably doesn't really matter to smartphone users. If my guesses about the positioning thing and S40 replacement are right then they'll need to keep it going a while at least, but with the other competition around in the Android market it'll only ever fool the stupid anyway. And from the point of view of "feature phones", that is business as usual.


How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android?

By most reporting[1], the office team has already had versions of office for iOS (and presumably Android) ready for quite some time. Their lack of release has been an internal political battle at Microsoft based on whether to postpone them until after the equivalent office apps are ready for RT. This is one of the biggest examples of decision making that people have been criticizing Microsoft for (handicapping their non-Windows business units to provide Windows a competitive advantage; which is a sensible strategy, but that seems ill-suited longterm, as those other business units like Office now eclipse Windows in revenue).

It's entirely possible that part of Nokia releasing this phone is related to that recent shift in strategy.

How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs?

Nokia already has experience in managing operating systems. I don't know how much work "porting" over all the Nokia apps was to Android, but it seems like they've done it. They already went through the experience of porting many of them over from Symbian (and alas, Maemo didn't really have much in the way of Nokia apps). I don't think this is a serious issue for their engineering organization (even aside from Microsoft's much larger engineering organization that presumably could be made available).

Are Nokia going to see this through? I think it is a smart play, if they go after it whole-heartedly like Amazon and provide a decent amount of differentiation. One could easily see Samsung going this route.

I think this is a logical play from a risk perspective. The low-end is currently where all their sales are (as the mid and high end have dried up faster than their increasing Windows Phone sales have grown); and even though the low-end isn't the desirable part of the market (see every phone manufacturer other than Apple and Samsung as examples), the effort required isn't much greater than they're already doing for the Asha lines.

I think they'll have a better chance at building an ecosystem that's piggy-backed off of Android than in building their own. I still don't know that this is a great long-term play, but it could be.

Samsung has been alleged to be heading in this direction for ages (first reported as the reasons for them releasing Bada, and later, Tizen). The new Gear 2 watch-thing runs Tizen instead of Android (which considering it's not really a stand-alone device, is probably a good place to test the waters).

It seems like the issue with Samsung taking the plunge is how much they attribute their recent success to their own products, vs. the Google ecosystem. Once they cross that threshold, they'll ship their own OS with TouchWiz on top of it. Maybe they'll similarly have an environment that can run Android apps (it's all Linux underneath).

[1] http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-on-ipad-its-alive-and-...


Office has a huge amount of legacy. I get that porting it to iOS had to be done. Microsoft provides Office for the Mac desktop. But porting to Android is a whole other story. Porting it to Android validates Android as a platform like nothing else. It'd be equivalent to Oracle releasing their DB server for Linux way back in the day, it gave the platform instant enterprise-cred whereas before it really only had hacker-cred and FOSS evangelist support despite the knowledge that IBM was spending a whole bunch of money on it internally.

You're right that Nokia has a track record of supporting and developing across multiple OSs but how has this turned out for them in the long run?

Samsung are right to keep their options open but I think they should go the Amazon/Nokia route and differentiate on top of Android. Having said that Samsung is probably more than large enough and has a large enough R&D budget to pursue multiple strategies.

It's really hard to see how this plays out. I thought we'd never ever see the day when Microsoft developed for Linux or Android unless as a bridge to their own world. I thought past history, pride, lack of trust, wrong momentum, or whatever would stymie them from making the transition. If I were a beige box manufacturer I would be extremely concerned that the Microsoft may move on from phones and tablets to laptops or even PCs, now that hell has frozen over you never know what they might do.


Currently, not being on iOS is invalidating Micrsosoft Office. It's miraculous how many things in stodgy IT Departments had to change shortly after the CEO got an iPad and iPhone. Probably a lot of those people felt they were secure with their Windows desktop only solutions, turns out they were wrong.


>It'd be equivalent to Oracle releasing their DB server for Linux way back in the day

I think Microsoft should look less to Apple and Google for inspiration and more to Oracle. There are a lot of similarities between the two companies: enterprise focus, pure software company, lots of legacy applications to support, etc...


> But porting to Android is a whole other story. Porting it to Android validates Android as a platform like nothing else.

I feel like the hundreds of millions of devices that ship each quarter is enough of a validation. They're not waiting around saying "I wonder if this Android thing takes off".


It'd be equivalent to Oracle releasing their DB server for Linux way back in the day

I'm hesitant about that comparison - server software and desktop software have little in common. Oracle could demand what OS it ran on because the server was likely doing little else - a desktop machine needs to run a wide variety of programs.


The Microsoft/Nokia deal has actually not gone through yet, although it most likely will. http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/14/the-nokia-microsoft-deal-is...


MS/Nokia deal hasn't gone through yet. Nokia handset divison is still part of Nokia and not part of MS yet. I believe they are waiting for approval from some governments such as China before they can complete the acquisition.


>they already make a bunch from Linux patents

I'm interested in how they apparently do this - especially as the Linux development process is open and MS' is secret.

As it was, if they decided to try patent trolling, chances are they'd get crushed by google, Red Hat, even Oracle...


As far as I know they get licensing payments for use of the FAT file system. Since they do own patents for that and Android handset manufacturers can't exactly tell users to use ext\d on SD cards there are licensing contracts in place.


This is the most confused device ever. A bastard child of Android and Windows: basterdised verion of Windows Phone UI on top of a forked Android that's integrated with Microsoft Cloud. The marketing has a distinct "feature phone" feel.

Seriously, Asha or X device from Nokia with Firefox OS would make more sense than this.

How many OSs does Nokia have now? 4 or 5?


I don't think they plan making any new S40 phones, so that would make it two OSes.


I counted four. Feature phone OS (ODM), Asha, Windows Phone and Nokia X Platform as they are calling it.


The "featurephone" OS is S40 and it's in both "classic" phones (e.g. 515) and Ashas.... unless there is something I've missed completely. And come to think of it, I haven't heard any confirmation of closing the production of S40 phones, so I guess that'd make it 3.


The OS in the most basic of Nokia phones is commonly referred to as S30. It doesn't really need much active maintenance, though, because they mostly only change graphics and included games (and utilities) between those phones.


Huh, I didn't even know of its existence. But yeah, turns out things like Nokia 105 run on S30. I have to try that someday, heh.


The classic feature phones is an older Symbian variant and Asha Platform OS is S40 from what I can tell. Symbian is still king in a lot of countries so Nokia will have to support it for a long time.

Struggle to see how this helps Nokia. Nokia Xs are smart phones at a price of a feature phone. Great! Welcome to an already very crowded low-margin market of cheap Androids in India, Brazil, China and Africa, the same market MS will enter with cheap 8.1 devices and where Firefox OS devices are heading. Yet, Nokia Xs have little extra to offer to the consumers that would significantly differentiate themselves from the competition.


Asha did well in developing markets, and Nokia has an attractive app/ecosystem suite for low-end phones. But Series 40 OS is not competitive with Android. Nokia X goes straight at that problem. If you are careful about the apps, especially the browser, Android will run well on VERY cheap hardware.


Just tried Xs at MWC ... not impressed.


Symbian isn't supported any more even today and Ovi Store has been frozen. And Symbian is much more of a "smart" phone OS than WP8. Also S40 isn't really Symbian. :)


Without Play Store and the ability to sideload Android apps (via .APK), you can expect a proliferation of pirated Android applications for the Nokia phones. Once again, Microsoft will enable the creation of a thriving anti-virus industry.


It sounds like an ideal CyanogenMOD candidate. A phone from an iconic manufacturer that's already running Android and needs to be opened up a bit.


Coming soon: Windows Defender Mobile NAndroid Edition (Personal|Professional|Ultimate)


    If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won.
-- Linus Torvalds


Microsoft is a kernel contributor, and Android isn't really linux

http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012


Microsoft's contribution to the Linux kernel, is, AFAIK, limited to device drivers that make Linux run better under Hyper-V. So, they are not really improving Linux - they are using it as a bait for you to run your Linux workloads on your Windows servers, using Microsoft's virtualization technology.


Intel's contribution to the Linux kernel, is, AFAIK, limited to device drivers that make Linux run better with Intel hardware. So, they are not really improving Linux - they are using it as a bait for you to run your Linux workloads on your Intel servers, using Intel's hardware technology.

Qualcomm's contribution to the Linux kernel, is, AFAIK, limited to software that make Linux run better with Qualcomm SoC. So, they are not really improving Linux - they are using it as a bait for you to run your Linux workloads on your Qualcomm phones, using Qualcomm's hardware technology.


> Intel's contribution to the Linux kernel, is, AFAIK, limited to device drivers that make Linux run better with Intel hardware.

No, not really.


I'm waiting for the part where you say more than three words to support your claim.


The amount of words is a poor metric. And sorry to point out but your original statement is not supported either, so burden of proof is on you.

To make it easier though I can point you in direction of Alan Cox commits around 2010-2013 and his work on TTY subsystem in particular.


Android is Linux. It is not GNU/Linux.

Do you see RMS's point now?


Android isn't really linux? Please expand.


To the extent that Linux is technically just the kernel and fundamental services, Android uses Linux but is not itself "Linux".

To the extent that Linux implies "GNU Linux", i.e. a whole operating system and a broadly interoperable and source compatible set of *nix services, Android is not Linux any more than iOS is FreeBSD.


Then you could argue that any embedded device that runs the Linux kernel is not Linux because it doesn't use the GNU userland. I think its splitting hairs, anything that runs the Linux kernel is by definition, Linux. You can replace the GNU userland with anything you want, it doesn't suddenly make it a completely new operating system.


Sounds like the argument is a question of definitions - does "operating system" mean kernel, userland, or both? You argue that changing the userland doesn't change the OS. I could counterargue that Debian/kFreeBSD is the "same operating system" with a different kernel.

RMS believes that userland makes an OS, because he wrote a userland. Linus believes that kernel makes an OS, because he wrote a kernel. Calling Android "Linux" is like calling Windows 8 "Windows NT", i.e. correct if you're talking about kernels and wrong otherwise.


It's not like it runs Linux now, is it? ;)


Linux is a kernel. Android uses the Linux kernel. WTF are you talking about?


The grandparents post was probably a play on the old "But does it run linux" meme from slashdot.


Divide and conquer.

By making any success with its Android phones, Microsoft can achieve two goals:

- further fragment the Android platform making it more difficult for users to buy devices and for developers to support the various devices and

- benefit from Android's strong market position instead of only trying to create market for Windows phones in places where it doesn't fit

They've identified the greatest flaw in Android ecosystem and they're exploiting it in an attempt to make their own offering more attractive in the long run.


Divide yes, but as for the conquer part we'll have to wait and see.

It seems to me that they might confuse themselves and their own customers more than anyone else with that convoluted strategy.

They identified Android's greatest flaw and swiftly added it to their own ecosystem.


"In fact, Nokia told TNW that only three APIs have been changed, so if a developer isn’t making use of these, no changes are needed at all."

http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/02/24/nokia-unveils-nokia...

This so reminds me of Microsoft's J++.


Looking at Nokia's dev docs: http://developer.nokia.com/nokia-x/platform-overview

It looks like the "three APIs" are not Android APIs, but rather Google Play Services APIs. Specifically push notifications, maps, and in-app payments.


Installing Google Play on this should be trivial anyway, what's the big deal?

The problem is that it's another iphone lookalike.

I WANT A DAMN KEYBOARD!


This. I just don't understand what are the benefits of a on-screen keyboard vis-a-vis a slide-out hardware qwerty keyboard. Ever tried using an on-screen keyboard with wet hands? Tried texting in class without looking?

Why can't we get one, just ONE, good Android device with a hardware keyboard?


Amen to that. If nothing else couldn't it be a differentiator? People have to get tired of rectangles with only bits of metal and plastic on them to signify any real difference.


Because we had them and they didn't sell.


>Tried texting in class without looking?

What the hell? Are you really that addicted to your phone you can't put it away for 2 hours to pay attention to a class you are paying hundreds of dollars to attend? If anything it is incredibly rude to the professor.

I'm old and cranky.


I want a slider, but not a side-slider, a top-slider. I want something like the Blackberry Torch, but Android-based, or at least like the N86 or N95.

I still use my N86 for everyday use.

http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_torch_9800-3203.php

http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n86_8mp-2713.php


Why a top-slider? The side-slider seems to give so much more real-estate for keys. Is it just the portrait display of the screen you want, or do you actually prefer typing on the top-slider keyboard?

Personally, I find the on-screen keyboard fine for the ham-fisted one-handed typing of short messages, but I want the maximum width and real keys IFF I have enough to type to justify switching to two-handed typing. So the side-slider seems like the better form-factor.


It's probably very quirky of me, but I like the slide-to-answer feature, and I like holding it in one hand and being able to type without watching.

I basically like my N86 because it allows for one-handed operation without looking at it - I can even fast-dial some numbers just pressing the .

I also like the physical camera button A LOT, if high end Nokias come with Android and camera buttons, I might consider them for that alone :)

TL-DR I love physical buttons.

I also don't use predictive text - I should get to the 21st century someday :) , but I switch languages and contexts too often and it gets in the way.


I used to be firmly in the hardware keyboard camp. Then I installed Hackers' Keyboard. The problem with hardware keyboards on phones is they have strange keys that PCs don't have, and are missing critical keys (like Ctrl and Esc) that PCs do have. Hackers' Keyboard solves that issue.

Of course on tablets I have either a BT keyboard or a keyboard dock.


> Tried texting in class without looking?

I could write on both my Palm and my Sony Ericsson P-800 with my eyes closed. Graffiti and whatever-SE-had were excellent options to physical keyboards.


The benefits are that it's cheaper and easier to manufacture. Of course those are only tangential benefits to the customer.


> Installing Google Play on this should be trivial anyway, what's the big deal?

How do you install Google Play on a non-google certified phone? e.g. CM? (honest question - iPhone user here planning to jump ship)


You can download the google apps (including Play) by simply downloading them from http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Google_Apps. From there just open play and install Maps, Earth, etc. as usual. Works like a charm!


I've heard good things about the blackberry Q10.


I remember when Nokia phones were crushing their opponents in terms of user experience, despite the incredible amount of devices they offered. The one-in-all blue button was remarkable. There were no OS, just different brands.

Nokia failed to make the leap to smartphones though. I still believe they were the only company capable of competing with the iPhone by delivering a hardware/software combo, but sadly failed to do so.


They eventually and actually did deliver with the N9, in terms of a comparable product. Let's see if Jolla can move that legacy forward.


Have you not seen the high-end Nokia Lumias?


Parent was talking about all-Nokia product.


Hmm, taking a cynical view, this could be a win-win for Nokia. Consider this:

1) The device does well: Nokia makes some money.

2) The device flops: Nokia can lay to rest the common criticism that they should have gone with Android. They can say, "See? We did Android. It went nowhere."

Don't blame the lack of a Play store, because remember, they were in discussions with Google and could not reach an agreement. I'm convinced it's because of Google's requirement that "all your location data are belong to us" [1] which would directly undercut Nokia's own location services. Because of Google's all-or-nothing stance, that took Google mobile services completely off Nokia's table.

Also, in the unlikely case that it does well, I wouldn't be too surprised if MS lets it live post-acquisition. After all, it's using their services, and these days there's probably more money to be made there than in selling software.

1. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/new-android-oem-licen... - "Google's Network Location Provider must not only be included, but set as the default network location provider; this is no doubt the clause that triggered a lawsuit from rival location company Skyhook."


I used to think it was a 100% lock that this project would get squished like bug the moment the Microsoft acquisition closes. Microsoft probably has a SWAT team of HR drones and lawyers sitting in vans outside Nokia offices to ensure that they do not incur any Apache license patent obligations, and that this project team gets sent to the Siberia customer support office.

But now I think there are two other possibilities. Not high probability, but possible:

1. Satya Nadella thinks differently about Windows Phone, and Microsoft embraces an Android-based product, much in the way that Amazon has. Not because Windows Phone is a turkey, but because Windows Phone is actually quite similar to Android technologically, and it makes sense to create applications that run on both, equally well, with equal features, in order to help Microsoft products penetrate the mobile market faster. The Nokia product becomes the most efficient way for Windows users to get a Microsoft app suite on an Android device, but any Android user will have access to the same app suite. Maybe Windows Phone prospers. Maybe not. But Microsoft wins either way.

2. Microsoft backs out of the Nokia deal. Satya Nadella thinks Ballmer was high when he bought a troubled OEM, including factories that make Series 30 handsets, especially now that Google got rid of Motorola. So all the lawyers that are not worrying about those Apache license patent clause issues are worrying about how to back out of the deal while minimizing penalty obligations. This would be a momentary embarassment, with many years of serenity as a reward.



Weird.

Microsoft intended to handle Android as a non-primary platform. I'm curious if those apps are going to be available on the Google Play Store as well (i hope so).

With this move, they should have update apps on the Android platform.

Also, i'm curious if developers have to change their Android APP UI to fit the new UI from Nokia (could be dangerous for Nokia).

Next, Android users all have a gmail account, now they need to switch to Outlook ? Not exactly user-friendly. Most developers have to change their Authentication also on their app.


I have heard great things about Microsoft's Windows Phones and Nokias hardware, but this move is confusing to say the least and I am not quite sure why it is necessary. MS designed the WP OS to run on moderately speced hardware but not on low-end devices? And now that they want a smartphone for the rising markets, they go looking for suitable software, which they find in the lap of their immediate competitor?


I imagine this decision made through both Microsoft's and Nokia's legal departments, but I can't really stop wondering what the implications of Microsoft distributing GPLv2 (with implicit patent licenses) and Apache (with explicit ones) has on their patent extortion<C-backspace>licensing business can be.

This could end up being much larger than just a couple phones.


I don't think it has to go through MS legal yet. Nokia has to legally act as if the merge does not go through. If/when Microsoft will sell this phone, it will probably be through a subsidiary, just like it does currently all open source contributions through https://msopentech.com , to avoid respecting the patent licenses.


I would imagine a judge would not be kind to this type of subterfuge once litigation started. It's completely obvious they are not distinct entities.


Microsoft has been distributing GPL2 software before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX


Nokia started this project before the ms deal was announced. That is my theory, they just kept going...


I think the proper way to do this is to run Windows Mobile side by side with Android. Since Android is open source it's easy to do that for companies like Microsoft. You can virtualize one OS or find another way to integrate them.

Another route is dual booting but I think it does more harm than good.


Weak specs, no physical buttons, and one of the two missing an SD card. I predict these will not do well.

Edit: Oh, and the interface is awful. The sensible thing would have been to use Android as inspiration to redesign Metro to be less ugly and nonfunctional, not to try and port Metro to Android...


How long will this realistically last in the new MS-owned Nokia? Will it have the same fate as the Kin?


512MB ram? My year old android handset has 1GB and is slow as all hell. It hangs, reboots itself, shows weird errors ("Activity Phone is not responding" when somebody is calling) and takes 30 seconds to open firefox. I don't know what Nokia is thinking.


I agree that 1 Gb would be ideal, but I have a 278 mb phone (Galaxy Ace from 2011), and it "works".

They're thinking that they'll probably bundle them for free with carriers in the 3rd world. I live in the 3rd world and the only "free" Android phones I can get with my U$ 20 contract are a Huawei crapphone, or Samsung Mini (the awful 1st version), both with Android 2.3. The non-Android alternatives are Nokia Ashas or other featurephones.

I'm pretty sure Nokia will be able to compete with the likes of the Huawei Ascend.

http://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_ascend_y100-4839.php


I have been there too. Then I installed cyanogenmod on my Nexus S. It's like night and day. Can't recommend enough. In the future I'm going after phones compatible with it.


Android 4.4 is targeted to run on low memory (i.e 512MB) devices unlike some of the previous Android releases.


Nokia X runs Android 4.1, not 4.4


Source?

EDIT: Wikipedia initially said 4.4.1


Someone has already changed it.


I'm still seeing it saying 4.4.1, with this as the source: http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/2014/01/08/nokia-normandy-show...



The analogy I see is to Unix. A worthwhile strategy for some larger companies is to build their own flavor on top of a greybox platform. This is what Amazon has done. Their Android flavor is seasoned to move Amazon goods and services. A Nokia Android flavor can be tailored to move Nokia goods and services, just as Google's Android flavor is all about Google's business plan.

The advantage that Nokia has is a fundamental B2B ethos. It is a commonality with Microsoft. Their chief rivals, Google and Apple don't have a partnering mindset. Nokia gets Skype and Office. They have a long history of maps.

This makes sense. In the long term going with an Android fork has nothing but upside for a company with Nokia's chops and culture.


spec: http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/

Looks rather poor. 800x480px on a 5-inch screen would be painful.


The Lumia 820 was 800x480 on a 4.3" screen, and I found it perfectly pleasant to use. 5" would be adequate for that end of the market.

It was less pleasant when I dropped it a foot and a half onto a carpeted floor and the screen cracked irreparably.

Maybe the idea is to recapture that market they used to dominate, of low-cost, robust phones with the very basics. (And snake.) Nowadays, of course, the 'very basics' includes web, email and suchlike. But not everybody wants the latest fad phone-game; they want their phones to, shock horror, communicate with people. Maybe they'll find a market that would otherwise go to the most rock-bottom terrible android handsets; pretty sure it'll be a better product than those.

Maybe they'll fail. Given it's where they excelled in the past, though, you can't blame them for trying.


It's supposed to be very cheap'o. MS (and by that Nokia) is focusing on "fast-growing emerging markets" a lot.


And they're right to do that :) . A "base of the pyramid" attack on Apple and Samsung sounds like their only option.

Only Samsung and chinese companies are cornering that market, which was formerly Nokias'.


Nokia has a big advantage in emerging markets where cheap phones are needed


Painful? 190PPI isn't great but it's far from painful.


It is once you've gotten used to a higher PPI device.


It should be a challenge for Nokia buy not allowing Google Play Services and Promoting Windows and Nokia based apps but this is the only way windows will allow Nokia to develop more android based devices.

As of this post from Nokia http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/

I think they still allow other 3rd-party sources for downloading the apps and there are still more Android based phones to come.


For others like me, the press release says: "a family of smartphones that run Android(TM) apps". Yes, other app stores can be sideloaded, and they even mention a few, but not Google's Play Store.

Personally, I doubt getting Play Store on it would be as simple as sideloading (sideloading itself isn't much different from what other app stores do) because of Google's Play Services.

Hopefully root (or a ROM, if necessary) could help with that.


From what I can tell, this is aimed at 3rd world countries.

I'm guessing Microsoft did not want to put their OS on a device that won't have top performance as well.


This is a good move as it addresses the need for cheaper phones in markets like India where the "Nokia Asha" line of phones are a poor substitute against similarly priced low end Android phones. By making the user experience similar to Windows phone and removing Google Mobile Services, they have made it easier to upgrade to the more expensive siblings at a later date.


i can't express how i hate the nokia-microsoft-conglomerate for... this... "strategy".

it appears they don't even have what could be called strategy. for years now, they've been fucking around, burning money and talent like crazy.

the only thing nokia-microsoft should do is leverage windows phone's potential. and there's so much of it. (i'm saying this as an apple user). all the money for all this bullshit they are doing/have done could have been well invested in fleshing out their ecosystem (and i don't mean "pay developers for ports"). e.g they do have so bloody many customers who'd love mobile devices with the ms office suite. there, right there is you focus point. but no, they delay their mobile office because of internal fist fights. useless bastards management.

for god's sake, these things make me want to storm into board meetings, jump on the table and just scream at their stupidity and kicking heads off shoulders like bruce lee.

man...


"e.g they do have so bloody many customers who'd love mobile devices with the ms office suite. there, right there is you focus point."

Given that Windows Phones (mobile devices with the MS office suite) have been on the market for 3 years and not really taken off, I'd wager your theory isn't really true. Clearly having MS Office is not enough to sway many people.


Is this non-Microsoft Nokia or Microsoft's handset division.

If it's the former, I will guffaw loudly in the direction of Microsoft!


it's the latter.


It's good to see an Engadget link again. TheVerge is turning into a hipster political magazine...


Glad I'm not the only one who finds the Verge's foray into politics to be wholly unwelcome.



Such a pointless release that will only lead to customer confusion. I bet those will be cancelled as soon as the MSFT purchase (finally) closes. Just goes to show why Nokia has been sold off. Sad.


It may be a negotiating tactic. You know, you need us more than we need you.


Negotiate with whom?


Lots of comments & speculations but no good explanation of - Why?


Maybe because Windows Phone can't run on low spec hardware and MS would like to capture the emerging markets.


That may not be true. Look at the low end Lumia, they are moderately spec'd. Even Lumia 720 which is Nexus 4 level device has a quarter of the RAM & works great.


Al the nokia x series look fantastics. I m waiting for nokia xl.


4 inch screen, 3M pixel camera, no Android Play and 4Gb of ram? What year is this, 2010?

It's going to take a better phone than that to turn that ship around.


I hope they use their own speech recognition engine. My cheap Nokia understood me better 10 years ago than my expensive Android today.


No play store? Nothing to see here, move along.


If the camera is as good as the other Lumias and this can be flashed w/ CM, count me first in line at the fire sale


I was hoping for that 41 megapixel camera that seems to be pretty excellent...that would have been interesting.


>3-megapixel camera

:/


pixels without sensor size are meaningless. a 3 megapixel camera that has good dynamic range and can shoot reasonable shutter speed at low isos in low light would be much better in a phone than a 15 mpix.


I was hoping for nokia + android + 41 megapixel camera. But no they have 3 megapixel ones? what?


Embrace, extend, extinguish...


Look like a nice form factor. Sensible size, screen takes up most of the face.


From business point of view i am bit curious to know why microsoft is started using Android OS?

Android owned by Google and the biggest competitor of Microsoft. Despite of having nice operating system like Windows mobile, they are trying Android ! This gives good sign of co-operation between giants.

Share your thoughts !


The Nokia/Microsoft deal hasn't completely gone through yet. Until it does, Microsoft is not legally allowed to have any say in Nokia's product decisions


Microsoft has been known to do a lot of things that they aren't legally allowed. In this case, I doubt they would not interfere if they didn't want to.


Agree with you,

Without business motive, they hardly do anything :)


And third, 5-inch Nokia XL. All priced 10 euros apart starting from 89€.


I can't find any hint of Home or Menu buttons, even soft.


Forked AOSP? So, getting apps from Ovi store?


Ovi Store has been frozen a few weeks (months?) back, so no updates for MeeGo/Symbian applications through that.


I hope not. Ovi was a right pile of crap.


Nokia is really a confused middle aged man.


Why call it X when they could call it X11?


phew! finally.


How is that even possible, I thought Android is closed source.

At least that's what Ars Technica has been telling us for the last months.

</sarcasm>


Actually, Nokia did exactly what Ars was telling for the last months - made a forked version of Android, without any Google services, like Amazon with Kindle.


Yap, and PvZ2 can't be ported to AOSP because it uses GMS API's


I think you mean that they would need porting rather than just releasing as the same binary in another store (unless that API usage is conditional).


The cat is finally out of the bag: Android as a platform is a more capable service delivery layer than the web even for Nokia and Microsoft, especially in developing markets, much as Google and Mozilla like to pretend otherwise. These are going to prove exceedingly popular.

The sad thing is Android is essentially a dead platform at this point because Google recognise investment in the core system is helping their enemies, and they hold a veto over what counts as a fork and what doesn't. The only thing that can save Android would be Google letting go completely, which is simply not in their interests.


>The sad thing is Android is essentially a dead platform at this point because Google recognise investment in the core system is helping their enemies, and they hold a veto over what counts as a fork and what doesn't. The only thing that can save Android would be Google letting go completely, which is simply not in their interests.

Still trying to grasp if it is just a parody or it is said seriously




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