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Being born into a jewish family isn't a choice. Being gay isn't a choice.

Being politically affiliated with hate speech IS a choice.

That is some straight up false equivalency bullshit.




Hate speech is just the speech that the majority has determined that they don't want to hear, and clearly, in some countries, are willing to exercise state violence upon those who commit it.

The problem with making speech legal or illegal based on popular opinion of it, is that one IS perfectly capable of engaging in hate speech without choosing to do so. What happens when what I said online two years ago becomes hate speech tomorrow? Do I need to make sure I go scrub all of my past speech before anyone finds out and sends me to jail?

Furthermore, one "chooses" their future course, and whether they want to self-identify with one group more than another. To claim otherwise is to deny any semblance of free will. I know many people who choose to identify with the gay community that aren't gay, and many who choose to NOT identify with the gay community who are gay.

False equivalency rains down wonderfully on the head of a man imprisoned for speaking his mind. You can tell him all day how he chose to be in jail.


The British probably thought those behind the movement that ultimately resulted in the United States were engaging in hate speech. Be careful not to use a tinted lens to evaluate the world. We all do it. I am not critical of your statement. I am merely pointing out that dissenting points of view throughout history have often met with push-back. Very often, years later, those responsible for the "hate speech" were recognized as being at the root of positive world-changing developments. Imagine the people who dared to engage in "hate speech" against the flat earth and geocentric dogma, voting rights, slavery, etc.

I am disagreeing with you on one point. Being Jewish is a choice, just like being Christian is a choice. I was born into a family, like most, with generations of religious belief. I, however, am an atheist. You don't have to be a Jew. You can have jewish culture in your life, respect it and enjoy it. That does not mean you have no choice but to also be religious. That part is a choice. Just as it is for anyone from any other religion.


> Being Jewish is a choice

Do you think that proponents of Neo-Nazism (etc) really care about the distinction between "born into a Jewish family" and "is a member of the Jewish religion?" I'm not saying that there isn't a distinction, but people engaged in hate usually aren't too interested in nuance.


Probably not. But that's not what I was arguing. Right?

For every example we care to provide there's probably a deviant group more than willing to discriminate against that population and even want to kill them. I think the history of genocides more than proves that point.

Please don't be offended. Jews don't really have a monopoly on being hated or being murdered en-masse. Many argue --quite convincingly-- that the Jewish genocide was modeled after the Armenian genocide of 1914/15 (the Nazi's copied some of the methods the Turks used on their Armenian population).

In the US, at least, in non-deviant circles, I believe you can be a person and not someone "born into an <X> family". In that context whatever you push in front of people as what defines you is up to you. Believe it or not, as an atheist I have a number of good friends who are Born Again Christians. Every single one of them is a great person. Each one of them chooses to define themselves by their religion differently. One in particular will smash you in the face with it every chance he gets. Not surprisingly he has suffered greatly with employment because, well, this isn't something you wear on your forehead and pester people with at work. The other guys are just guys who happen to privately be BAC's. He is a militant BAC. Choice.


> Being born into a jewish family isn't a choice.

The normal US point of view is that "Jewish" is a religion, not an ethnicity, hence is a choice.

That point of view is not universally shared, of course.


Can you provide your reasoning for saying this is the "normal" point of view?

A cursory search tells me nothing of much use.

Apropos of nothing, I found a Pew poll[0] that says... 21% of atheists believe in a god? Huh?

[0] - http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report2religious-landscape... ("Conception of God")


I don't have a citation, sorry, just a general perception of how the issue is typically addressed in conversation and the media...

And again, if you talk to people who self-identify as "Jewish", you get a rather more complex picture.




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