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Google is building Chrome apps support for Android and iOS (thenextweb.com)
91 points by hackhackhack on Dec 3, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 45 comments



Google knows that future of mobile apps are web. Web technologies can get better and better to some point that it doesn't make sense to build native apps because it costs too much for most data driven apps.

With Google, Microsoft and Mozilla betting on web, who has a doubt that web will win?

...oh... do you remember Steve Jobs was suggesting all apps for iPhone should be web apps? He was way ahead of his time.


No, Google needs the future of mobile apps to be the web, which is very different.

Unfortunately, while they're doing this they're simultaneously changing the web into something which removes the very things which allow them to monetise it successfully today.

A web of WebGL based client apps which just ping servers for JSON objects of a custom nature will be even more impenetrable to massive data mining than the current JS infested mess out there, which was one of the many justifiable criticisms rightly thrown at Java applets back in the late 90s. The opportunity to rewrite the browser in itself and thus remove the HTML/CSS entirely will prove far too tempting.


You're exaggerating.

I think WebGL is awesome. In combination with HTML5 audio and video, we can finally get rid of Flash and Silverlight and Java Applets or whatever crappy plugin that people have been using to distribute games and audio/video on the web. This is a good thing. The only reason for why we are seeing less and less usage of these plugins is because WebGL and the other parts of HTML5 are finally taking off, in combination with native mobile apps built on non-standard, often proprietary platforms. These proprietary platforms (e.g. iOS, Google's Play Services, etc...) are far more dangerous for the open web, than whatever ends up being standardized in W3C.

Those Chrome apps can and will be built mostly with HTML, CSS and Javascript. They will for the same reason that many people keep building HTML, CSS and Javascript today - for all the bitching and moaning about it, it's actually quite convenient and easy to build something functional and cross-platform and worry free, plus there's a huge knowledge base built around these technologies.

On rewriting the browser to have a small core and a UI built on top of web technologies, I think that will be awesome and from what I've been reading, Mozilla is already working on a next-gen Firefox that does it.

I'm far more worried about Dart VM or PNaCL, because in order to improve the web, Google is trying to replace Javascript with their own non-standard technologies, relying on their big market share to do that (sound familiar?). Which is why I'm happy that Mozilla exists to bring some balance with Asm.js and Firefox OS and the like. As proof, Mozilla forced Google's hand to include Asm.js in their optimization targets and that popular Unreal Engine demo works quite well right now in Chrome. So we still have healthy competition in the browser space and good things will come out of it.


> Google knows that future of mobile apps are web

Sure except Google is also pushing for it's own web techs, native-client and dart VM. Dont be too quick saying "the web won" when different vendors have different vision of what the "web" is.

A last thing, chrome apps API is not standard.


As someone who works in the web daily and has for little over a decade now, I have to disagree. When someone can figure out how to build on top of the javascript/html mess that is 'html5' that world will be left behind in an instant. Emscriptem, looking at you...


webOS (RIP) was also ahead of its time. The idea was sound, but the performance just wasn't there on that hardware/OS.

These days some of the apps I'm the most impressed with on iOS are really just webapps in a wrapper so that they can do push notifications (OWA for iPhone/iPad, for instance).


Would love to see some examples of well-done webapps in a wrapper ... mind sharing?



> ...oh... do you remember Steve Jobs was suggesting all apps for iPhone should be web apps? He was way ahead of his time.

He only suggested that at the time because iOS had no app store. It was one of his cunning moments of misdirection and the sentiment didn't last.

As a developer of both apps and web applications, I still don't think web applications are anywhere near the user responsiveness, capability and ease of development of native. And the supposed advantages of write-once, run-on-all-platforms is a total red herring. The amount of work required to ensure a web application written for, say, iOS works as smoothly on Android has in my experience dwarved that of writing native apps for both platforms.

This could change in future, but at the moment it really feels a long way off.


No company is betting on data-driven HTML apps.

Google and Mozilla is clearly betting on C/C++/GL and sockets. Chrome and Firefox is becoming another Qt.

Microsoft is hesitating because they're lingering on Windows/DX/.NET.


The distinction between web and non-web is getting increasingly irrelevant. Native apps are not delivered in shrink wrapped boxes. They are purchased, delivered, updated, and often get data from the web.

The main difference (beyond hardware acceleration) is how they cache data, and address latency. It is possible for both native apps, and web apps to get this wrong, and when they do it is bad for the user.

I am not sure why the user really cares if they are running a native app or a chrome based web app. What they want is a responsive interface.


"...do you remember Steve Jobs was suggesting all apps for iPhone should be web apps? He was way ahead of his time."

As in...wrong?


Wrong. They would like the future of mobile apps to be web. Therefore they are lobbying for all these web-technologies. Good for us, the web has gotten better. But I think it also makes it more unlikely that the, some say broken, web-stack we currently have will be replaced.


Difficult to be certain, but I suspect TNW may have based this off a HN submission I made yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6838530

This isn't a complaint. I just find it interesting to consider that news outlets might be watching HN's /newest page closely.


I have not for the life of me been able to imagine the purpose of building a Chrome app. Now I can.... but wait... isn't it just a "lipstick on the pig" html5 web app?


I found it useful to use Chrome's USB API to create a viewer to connect the Oculus Rift with remotely-hosted WebGL apps: https://github.com/DanAndersen/cupola

It lets me feed in head-tracking data from the Rift, while avoiding the latency that you'd get from using something like WebSockets. I'd use something like vr.js, but that's an NPAPI plugin and Chrome is retiring those.

Unfortunately Windows-only (and maybe Linux with some adjustment) so far, since the USB API doesn't yet properly work with HID devices on OSX.


Yes, but this pig NEEDS more lipstick.

It would be great to have a major company supply a fully cross-platform html5 app framework.


Or just forget the pig with lipstick and get the hot model - Xamarin.


No Linux? No thanks.


Xamarian is based on Mono, which has had Linux support since forever.


Yes, but Xamarin Studio isn't supported on Linux: https://bugzilla.xamarin.com/show_bug.cgi?id=142


Have you tried MonoDevelop? Its still being actively enhanced by Xamarin.

http://monodevelop.com/


We were talking about mobile apps; how can you build those with MonoDevelop on Linux?


Adobe PhoneGap?


The article actually says it is using Apache Cordova which is Adobe PhoneGap. I wish they would just contribute to the project directly, though. There's already quite a bit of bullshit platforms built on top of PhoneGap, like a business applet one by HP, and using the actually thing is always better.


As a matter of fact, most of the engineers on this project are regular committers to the Cordova project. (Cordova is the underlying project, btw -- PhoneGap is Adobe's build system built on top of it)

We're very committed to the Cordova platform, and we're very active in pushing it forward.

Though there are a lot of individuals, and companies, involved, I suspect that, by any measure, Google is one of the top contributors to Cordova these days.


In another view, PhoneGap is the trademark that Adobe bought. Cordova is the (not so) new name given to the PhoneGap product when the product moved to Apache and the branding went to Adobe.

I have an app in the Android Market (er, Play Store) built with the old open source PhoneGap.


I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was combined with PNaCl down the line.


There are three reasons I really like Chrome apps: They can run in a windowed/chrome-less mode (no navigation bar), you can write offline HTML5 apps that actually work, and discoverability via the Chrome web store.

And as somebody else mentioned, it gives you access to the USB JavaScript APIs, which is pretty cool.


Since 2002 half of everyone who's reached the age of 12 has learned enough HTML, CSS, Javascript, and can recognize PHP well enough to throw a basic, buggy website together. Suddenly, a trip to "chrome://extensions/" means these semi-non-developers can write an app for their Chromebook(or even PC) without having to install or compile anything, let alone commit themselves to mastering a programming language.

It shouldn't mean much for large projects, but it does mean companies can hire less-skilled "programmers" to churn out minimally viable products whether that be for bootstrapped start-ups or to satisfy the demand from businesses that want to say "look I have a presence on mobile."


I coded C++ in "large projects" and now coding JavaScript in another large project. Language itself doesn't mean anything for defining "skilled programmers". Skilled programmers are not limited to language nor platform.

You are calling out people who started learning programming with HTML and CSS and telling them they are not programmers but you don't realize that your first program with BASIC was basically same shitty code copied from your book and you were thinking you were a "programmer". I don't know you are skilled or not but I know you are not "professional".


I think you're mildly right, and not attempting to be elitist as the other repliers said. I would agree that the minimum of skills would be required to write these apps, which I suppose is a good thing but then also a very bad thing because it may mean poor performance, rubbish design leading to bugs etc.

This was sort of noticeable when Google had to add some fairly basic pointers on the developer site about not doing daft things in loops on Android. They were useful pointers, but pushing everything to the web where every man and his dog can write apps that perform badly whilst wobbling precariously on top of a browser interpreter doesn't seem ideal to me. Quick to write though, eh?!


How delightfully elitist and condescending of you.


Yeah, I need to work on my tone, because that came across exactly the opposite of how I intended.


I feel the same way about 3D printing. Now everyone and their mother can produce 3D objects without even committing themselves to mastering industrial design. And companies can now prototype half assed products cheaply without having to invest millions of dollars. This is truly a sad era...


I think your sample may be skewed toward rich, well-educated Americans--and probably the more tech-savvy of those as well.


Thank god. I'll take anything over the current Android application framework.


R.I.P. Android developers. Google finally decided where to go.


What was to be expected since they placed Android under ChromeOS steering?


Though I am not sure that I understood your intention…

I think Google will eventually kill Android from Android+Chrome stack. Just like MS did on DOS for Windows. Chrome on Android is just a temporal form, and there's no reason not to run Chrome directly on the hardware. (why do they stick to PNaCL which never be adopted by competitors?) Actually Chrome was born to do that from first. And since they decided to go Chrome, Android is just an obstacle to interact to hardware from Chrome as an OS.

In my imagination, even on the best scenario, the future of Android is the MS-DOS on Windows. An emulation layer on top of Chrome OS.


I don't think Apple would allow this in the App Store. It disallows apps that have their own apps/widgets.


They're using Apache Cordova (PhoneGap), so they will run under iOS webkit (Safari w/o JIT) on iOS.


Down the road, do you think will chrome packaged apps support 3rd party dlls?


Just use Flash.


"hybrid native apps" - oh, I thought it was something worthy like PNaCl.




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