I know I'll just sound like another grumpy Android user here, but why launch with an iPhone app only? Why wouldn't you start off with e-mail and a mobile-responsive web site? I can't imagine what functionality a native Luna app could provide that couldn't be done over the web.
I know that being in the App Store is a status symbol and so on, but most of my online shopping is still done on the web, and I sit in front of a computer at work - so most of the time I want to interact with Luna I'll probably be wanting a desktop experience.
I'm in NYC, so I can't use the service right now anyway. But if it launches here I'd be an absolute sucker for it, except that I won't be able to use it.
Why make it an either/or argument? I didn't suggest making an Android app. A mobile-responsive web site would work great for both iPhone an Android. And desktop.
That article doesn't really apply here - it's discussing in-app advertising, app purchase fees and in-app purchases. I hope for Luna's sake that they aren't going to charge that $6.99 delivery charge as an in-app purchase, because they'll lose 30% instantly.
Apple is known for rejecting apps that mimic the functionality of the website (even the mobile version)
"We should make an app because if we don't Apple might reject the app we didn't make"?
The lead developer is probably more comfortable using Obj-C than web technologies
That is a terrible, awful, no good reason to restrict your target market. If a web site is worth making then it's worth making. Any lead developer worth giving even 1% of equity should be able to adapt to that. If you can do Objective C you can do the web.
The business is designed specifically for mobile users
If it's iOS only then the business is designed for a specific subset of mobile users. That's fine, but let's be clear. A responsive web site is also 'designed for mobile users'.
Eh, it doesn't seem to me that "people in the San Francisco area with access to an iOS device" is much of a market restriction.
Also, as you said, this is not either/or. If the lead was most comfortable with iOS but could also make a web app with a little more doing, then why not launch on iOS and then make a web app once the extra doing is taken care of?
That's a measure of app sales - that is not a measure of offline services or SaaS subscriptions generated via the app.
That means straight-up app sales and things like in-game currency. It does not mean things like shopping via the phone or subscriptions like Spotify.
The profitability of iOS vs. Android is highly variable depending on what you're doing - doubly so when you're not in the traditional in-app purchase model. It would be wise to find out where one's profitability stands independent of these numbers.
I don't see how push notifications would be any better than e-mails in this scenario - you already get e-mail delivery notifications anyway, so it fits in your existing workflow. They're also archivable - you're unlikely to act immediately on a notification from Luna. It makes more sense for it to sit in your inbox until you're at home/whatever.
As for the app being on the home screen, sure. But how often are you going to be looking at your phone and think "ooh, I'll use Luna for a few minutes"? Never. It doesn't need your attention that way. You'll open it when you get an e-mail notification about a delivery. I guess the core of it is that there's no real need for Luna to be an app at all.
Not yet available for iOS Safari, oddly enough. I would think it would be easier to do there, and the ability to add push to a Safari website saved to the iOS screen as a shortcut would be pretty excellent.
I don't mean to be a downer, but stuff like this bums me out. There are so few people working on important things yet half the town is working on delivering food and packages to tech workers who can afford what is genuinely a pretty insane price to pay for these services. I know that this is a pretty awesome convenience, but its just so meh. This is what we're doing with all these resources? Building online delivery service number 45248923942?
I don't think it's particularly "meh". I live in NYC, in a building without a doorman. Because of that, "package delivery" is not in my vocabulary (well, Amazon Locker has helped a bit with that), and therefore I spend less money online because it doesn't make sense to ship them to my apartment.
Would I pay $6.99 for it? Probably not. But is it "meh"? No, I think it solves an actual problem, possibly in enough of a way to build a sustainable business.
Yeah, in NYC this is a major pain point. If I am not home to receive a package, I have to pick it up at the local post office, which has the following properties:
0) Often loses packages (~25% of the time)
1) Does not re-attempt delivery under any circumstances
2) Is unbelievably crowded by customers who are enraged by 3)
3) Staffed by people who do not care about their jobs at all
4) Has a minimum wait of 30 minutes to get your package
Is 30 minutes of my time plus transit to and fro worth more than seven bucks? Probably yes.
You left out the biggest problem with the Post Office - it is often closed when you have the free time to go there.
I've been using private mailbox services for nearly 2 decades now and they have it all over the USPS PO. 24-hour package pickup. They throw away junkmail for you. They will text you when you have a package. They can accept shipments from any carrier - USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.
They will forward mail in batches to another address, say you moved out of state but still want your old address to keep working for another 6 months. If you file a change-of-address form with the USPS they sell that info to anybody with a couple of dollars (like your college alumni association and any other charity you ever donated to). Some will even open your mail for you, scan it and email it to you.
Plus, the address looks like an apartment but it is not your home address - so telling someone where to mail you doesn't also tell them where you live.
I completely agree with you. Too bad some of the more convenient Amazon lockers shut down. I might have to get a PO box. I'd much rather use something like Luna.
You can ship to USPS PO Boxes now by putting down the post office's address. Not sure if this service is available at all post offices. Technically its not really even a service...
The reason is that the software that FedEx, UPS, etc use to plan routes doesn't have something which maps P.O. box numbers to the street address of the post office that they are contained in. And from what I can tell the USPS doesn't publish that database, so even if FedEx, etc really really wanted to, they couldn't without spending several million (or more) to map them all manually.
It's unfortunate that it's not terribly convenient, but once you know the street address of the post office that your P.O box is located at, it's not a problem at all.
What I'm curious about is how these folks are solving the Form 1583 problem.
Congress passed a law in 2001 requiring any commercial entity to receive mail for another to submit a Form 1583A registering with their local post office as Commercial Mail Receiving Agency (CMRA). And then all their customers are required to complete a regular Form 1583 which is designed "verify" their identity and prevent mail fraud.
If they go without the CMRA the USPS can't legally deliver anything to them for their customers so all the small stuff you buy off of Amazon, eBay, etc are all right out. And for a lot of that stuff you're not going to know ahead of time if someone is going to send it via USPS or UPS or FedEx because it'll go whichever way is cheapest.
If they do the CMRA route then getting new customers is a big pain in the ass. I know this because I used to work for a well known CMRA and it was the Achilles heel of the business.
>And for a lot of that stuff you're not going to know ahead of time if someone is going to send it via USPS or UPS or FedEx because it'll go whichever way is cheapest. //
Perhaps it works because you can't send it to them by USPS so they'll never be the cheapest route.
Presumably when Amazon, say, are sending out an item they arrange the collection using some form of API and choose the optimal (by price I expect) delivery route. USPS would simply not be listed and so Amazon would route to Luna as expected.
Maybe it doesn't work like that, just a suggestion.
It would be super-great if that's how it worked, but it's not. There is no send-to-this-person-at-this-address API to see if it's OK to do so. There is no national database of who-lives-where that's in any way unified -- except maybe at the NSA -- and if there is, it's certainly not shared publicly.
Everyone's software doesn't check names in any way whatsoever. I could send a package to:
President Abe Lincoln
1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington DC 20500
FedEx, UPS, USPS, DHL, everyone's software would eat that right up and spit out a label. That's because the name portion of the address usually doesn't mean anything. The White House is where it is irrespective of the person receiving the mail there.
Furthermore nearly all of the time this isn't an issue. The vast majority of all mail and packages go to the right address. People tend not to have items shipped to anyone but themselves or perhaps relatives. That's the reason there's a law that writes an exception to normal mail delivery only in the case where someone's doing it as a business (a CMRA).
And the only reason there's an exception there is that some (not all) CMRA owners 10-15 years ago didn't seem to care about preventing fraud and enough people got scammed to where it was a problem. It's expensive to scrutinize the incoming mail enough and that meant that the people who didn't scrutinize had higher profits so there was no corrective feedback through profits and losses. The only way to fix that was to make it a legal issue instead of an economic one.
Tell me about it -- I've had more packages lost or stolen than I could count. (The UPS missed package slips haunt my dreams.)
Check out Parcel: http://fromparcel.com. Just launched for New Yorkers without doormen. Get your packages delivered on your schedule. And the best part? It's totally free through January 15.
I can empathize, but unless you're growing your own food and meat, you're not in much of a position to complain. Offloading the logistics of resource delivery to allow us to do other things is a massively important part of any advanced society. Do we really need to take it to this level? Probably not. But it's not right to dismiss "unimportant" things like this out of hand either.
Wait what, you're seriously claiming that unless I hunt my own dinner I cannot be dissapointed that some of the brightest minds of our generation are building ANOTHER delivery site? How does this logic work?
I think improving the efficiency and logistics of delivery services actually qualifies as 'an important thing'. It might not be as sexy as curing cancer or eliminating poverty, but it provides a service that allows individuals the opportunity to maximize their own productivity, which has both economic and quality of life impacts.
While this service isn't exactly revolutionary, it could put pressure on competitors to improve their customer experience. I think the end game (as does Amazon apparently) is sub-30 minute deliveries done using energy-efficient and autonomous technology, but that is a ways away, but at the very least, incremental improvements by upstarts will put pressure on the industry as a whole to improve their services (think about it, why doesn't Fedex/UPS already offer evening services to residential areas, they should have been doing this years ago).
I also agree, but I think the key here is balance: as pointed out above, convenience services such as these are wanted (i.e., people pay), and perhaps allow for more important things to take place -- however, we should think in terms of social responsibility and greater good as well.
In this case, Luna could actually cut down the number of delivery attempts per package, and potentially reduce the carbon footprint of the delivery.
I think there are a few things at play here that should help you to feel better. Firstly, you're reading a website that is targeted at affluent tech workers. Who's most likely to market their product here? Second, the whole world is transitioning to online sales. Those people will go from stocking shelves at the grocery/department store to delivering it directly to you. I'm sure there are plenty of people working on important things that you just haven't heard about lately.
Going to a UPS, FedEx, or USPS location to get a package can easily kill the better part of an hour just doing it, nevermind the wider effects of any interruption.
Meanwhile, one delivery guy can probably handle 10+ deliveries an hour. One guy can easily save us a work-week every night.
The guy who delivers lunch to a company can be delivering the lunch of 100+ people every day. Even if it only saves 10 minutes per person, he's just saved 16 man-hours.
What does it take to qualify as "important" to you?
No, he isn't. He's saying that he's sad that people only care about how people are willing to pay for awesome convenience and not something more interesting.
Real problems are hard to solve and no ready way to pay for them. Convenience services have less challenges, and a ready market waiting to pay for them.
If this service was in Seattle (and I didn't live in an apartment complex that essentially provides this service for free) I'd use it.
Awesome! I think the landing page could do a slightly better job at explaining the problem Luna solves.
"Delivering your packages when you're home for the night" sounds nice, but why would I want my packages delivered at night?
I looked at the blog and it perfectly explained the problem: "How many times have you anxiously awaited a package only to come home and find that dreaded little slip hanging from your front door?"
I'd also note that it saves you from those dreaded days when a new iPhone or similarly expensive device is going to be left sitting on your doorstep while you're at work...
UPS/Fedex take all the risk when they do that. The driver is taking the chance in order to clear his truck. Unless you authorize it with a signed note, they should not do that. They don't do it in SF or NYC since your doorstep is the street.
This. This is the biggest issue in my mind. I would most definitely pay $7 to make sure they don't just leave my $700 new tech on my front step in full view exposed to the elements.
Now this business is a breath of fresh air. No "social". No "you are the product, not the customer". No "ads as a business model". In fact, I see a clear business model. And having the price on the site? On the front page? holy cow that's awesome.
A wise businessman I know used to say "Think like a customer, always anticipate, and have fun!" Take that to heart and you'll do just fine. Good on you for getting this far, and best of luck for the future!
You tell Luna when you'll be home, and the delivery will happen between that time and midnight.
I'm sure there are a ton of folks who wouldn't mind a midnight delivery -- I used to be one of them -- but there are probably a fair amount who would like to get a package at 7 p.m. but would definitely not like to get a package at 12 a.m.
Perhaps as Luna expands, it might consider shifting to a model that allows a smaller time window for the folks who get home earlier. For instance, it might use a two-hour window, so people who get home at 7 will receive their delivery by 9 and people who get home at 10 will receive their delivery by midnight.
I wonder why the big delivery companies (UPS, FedEx) have not bothered with a service like this (I am aware that you can schedule delivery windows and the like, but we can assume that no current delivery company offers this exact, concierge like service). I can only come up with 2 possible points that would render offering this service not worth their time.
First, On initial glance, this appears to be a niche luxury service that skews towards a relatively young demographic. That user base may just be too small to make it worth the big delivery companies time. Also, This business model probably only works in a metro area (I can't imagine the price points needed to make this company viable Batavia Ohio being very palatable to the average consumer).
There may also be other concerns, but these are the ones that I would first worry about as an investor. Either way, it will be interesting to see how this pans out. It really is a solution to one of those problem that in retrospect, was so damn obvious.
UPS can't because of union agreements. FedEx can't because of contractor agreements. This is a service targeted towards busy professionals. We're definitely urban focused right now
The older you are, the more likely that you have a spouse or child who can receive said packages, or a suburban home, where leaving a package on a porch isn't (as large) a risk, etc.
I've wondered the same. Less traffic on the roads after the peak rush home so couriers/vans would be able to zip around more quickly. Deliver groceries at 6am, packages at 7pm and onwards, etc.
Simple and a life saver. I'll be signing up as soon as this comes to NYC.
I get most things shipped to the office to avoid sitting around at home, but sometimes you get an item that's just too big - those items also tend to be more expensive, making the $6.99 thing more palatable. I hope their numbers account for this effect (i.e., disproportionately large packages).
Dealing with USPS pickup slips is the sort of pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
Are there delievery lockers (Amazon or others) in the Boston area? I've looked and can't seem to find anything. Seems like this would be a natural here.
Generally speaking Lockers only accept boxes small enough that I'd get them shipped to work anyways. Also sadly there aren't that many Lockers in lower Manhattan :( Definitely none within walking distance of me... and taking the subway to get your package seems to defeat the point of Lockers.
Can't get a TV delivered to an Amazon locker and its hard to get large electronics out of most office buildings without security needing to clear it with your employer. Amazon Lockers have been great though, although better when they were in Staples instead of 7/elevens.
I'd just like to point out to all the downers out there: the pricing on this service is easily justified if you compare it to the cost of having to drive all the way to a Fedex facility, wait in line behind other similarly inconvenienced human beings, and drive all the way back. Even if you work for minimum wage, the cost of gas plus the value of your time far exceeds the $7 delivery fee.
Seems a bit pricey for me. I think the future is Amazon's storage drop lockers in every Super America (insert your regional chain here). Works for we city dwellers (there's one every 3 blocks), and even suburbanites.
There's no way Luna will work for those many millions are trapped in the suburbs (though of course, that's not a prerequisite for success either). That being said, i'd definitely use this service in Minneapolis proper.
It will combine perfectly with drones. One of the things I think is going to be really hard for drone delivery is the last ten feet - once there's a drone outside my locked apartment building, what's it going to do? Knock and hope the manager is there to let it in? Leave my package on the city street? (fuck no). But combine it with this, delivery at a reasonable hour when I can be home to receive it, and it's perfect.
I like the idea. Though the $6.99/package is more than I'm wiling to spend. I order most of my stuff online and packages delivered to my apartment during the day will be stolen. I currently have to get all my packages delivered to work, but for some people that may not be an option.
Work is still a pain in the ass. It sits at your desk or awkwardly in your bag as you make small talk at events after work. We understand that we're not for every one of your deliveries
This is great. Online shopping is so much less convenient because I can't have packages delivered to my apartment. Instead I must ship packages to my office, and either muscle them on MUNI or get a cab (which costs more than $7).
They're solving an issue that's been slowly building over the last 10 or so years. I love online shopping, but the fatal flaw has always been the delivery process, which is heavily geared towards those who work at home, or have a partner/family member available in the house during the day.
Most of the time I get stuff delivered to work, but quite often we get angry emails from postroom staff who are swamped with packages and can't determine what's "business critical" post and just people ordering personal items off the web. I can sympathise with that a bit.
Is there any way for you to act as a proxy for users, and pick up their packages from the will-call window at the local UPS warehouse for same-night redelivery? It would be an easier sell at $7+ if you can save your customers a drive across town and a wait in the UPS line. Folks also wouldn't have to plan ahead to delivery to Luna.
Ideal user interaction would be: open the Luna app and scan the InfoNotice.
Perhaps you could hack/co-opt/use carrier services like UPS' MyChoice service, which allows customers to electronically sign for pacakges, and give special delivery instructions.
>You're suggesting as a last-minute choice to use luna?
Yes, as an additional source of business on top of those those who have planned ahead and shipped directly to Luna's warehouse.
In this 'after-the-miss' case, Luna could offer to solve an acute, possibly unexpected problem, vs. being one of several options for those who planned ahead (many discussed on this thread: ship to work, use Amazon Locker, etc).
>That may be harder as UPS checks IDs.
That's why I suggested interfacing with carriers. UPS MyChoice allows you to sign electronically for packages and give special instructions. I imagine FedEx has a similar offering.
Why so many delivery startups? Are these real problems needing solutions or entrepreneurs chasing the perception of a market that, in reality, does not exist?
Quick story: A good friend of mine thought he saw an opportunity to make money when 3.5 in floppy disks came out (yes, this is ancient). He found a supplier of bulk disks and placed ads in several magazines offering 50 and 100 disk packs at a good deal. One of the magazines printed weekly. A week after he placed his first ad a competitor came out offering a similar deal. A couple of weeks later, another. And then another. And so on for several weeks. At the conclusion of his agreed-upon twelve week run for the ads he did not renew the contract.
He sold exactly ZERO disks.
He watched as every single one of his competitors pulled out as their contracts ran out.
His conclusion was that these entrepreneurs simply followed each other into a non-existing market. He was first. Others saw what he did and thought there was money to be made. They all followed each other taking a virtual dive off the edge or a cliff. Nobody make a dime.
Ever since he told me that story years ago I've kept an eye out for that kind of behavior. I've seen it many times and in different industries, some with massive capital investments. One such example is the consumer 3D madness that keeps coming back to bite those who try it. But they keep trying! Amazing.
A good idea and it illustrates the growing trend of proxy-services. That is, traditional services are so inflexible or inconvenient that the best way to deal with them is to decouple them from the individual and insert a proxy that buffers the service.
I've noticed this with banking too, people decoupling the payment mechanisms ( card accounts, direct debits etc ) from their main accounts.
Edit: I wonder what non-IT people make of such patterns.
Indeed. It would take relatively very little investment for UPS and gang to start doing night deliveries. I think the barriers to entry are pretty low for the big boys.
Over here in Germany we have solved that problem with the Packstation. They're everywhere and you can just go there and fetch your packets whenever you want: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation
And there's no additional fee and I think sending a packet using them is cheaper than doing it the traditional way.
Australia Post is currently doing this with Parcel Lockers, but they're degrading the service to a point where it's less useful (no courier deliveries, limited international deliveries, no paid option, no API to access pending packages)
Amazon has been testing Amazon Locker for this, which is similar. The problems with both services are: 1) limited to boxes of the appropriate size (from the pictures of the Packstation, maybe 10-20% of my Amazon orders would not fit) and 2) You still have to go get it.
Going to go get it may not seem like a big deal. But, if you're, say, walking home with a 2 year old, or it's pouring rain and you don't have a car (I don't here in NYC), or any number of other reasons, actual home delivery can be a really nice thing to have.
I've wanted this so badly for so long. Why am I paying such inflated costs for last-mile delivery when it's magnitudes more convenient to just pick up my package at a nearby depot on my way home from work?
I've always wanted online retailers to just allow me to ship to a local affiliate for the same or less cost, and notify me when it's ready to pick up. This takes it a step further.
I just spent 10 days playing Whack-A-Mole with UPS to get my "Signature Required" package. Just one issue with them after another. I was even thinking of asking them to direct me to where the driver was on his route, and I'd go meet him somewhere.
So $6.99 to ensure I got the package when I was home? Yes, I'd pay it. Luna: Come to Austin next.
I'm not sure that people will go through this app and pay another $6 on top of the original shipping fee, and enter an oddball shipping address. They may pay it if it's an option at checkout, as at that point they are weighing the shipping costs as a total and looking at things like overnighting a package, or two-day shipping etc. If it was a markup for nighttime delivery at checkout, and you just enter your home address one time, that would be the most painless implementation. To get there, that means they'll need to partner with Amazon, UPS, FedEx, etc, rather than acting as competitors. If these companies are not interested in night-time delivery or unable to do night-time delivery for labor reasons, they may be quite willing to earn a markup by partnering with Luna. They already have similar relationship with USPS which handles last mile deliveries, which is what it looks like Luna is going for.
Excellent Idea! My Amazon Prime account makes me automatically turned off by delivery charges. $6.99 is too steep per package for me (mainly due to the low cost of the items I purchase), but I would definitely enroll in some tier type pay package. $X for Y total deliveries or $1.75X for 2Y total deliveries.
Speaking of which, does Amazon batch Amazon.com deliveries with Amazon Fresh deliveries? Might make sense if you don't mind waiting an extra day for a package to get routed through Amazon Fresh's warehouse in exchange for knowing it'll be out in front of your door in the morning.
Looks like it's $6.99 per delivery, not necessarily per package. Perhaps they can accept & store packages for a couple days, if you know you've got a string of them coming, and can wait until they're all at the luna wearhouse?
This is a cool idea, and one that I would definitely pay for in certain circumstances (basically any situation where I end up having to drive to the UPS facility). However, I'd want to be sure that I can actually use the service under those circumstances.
My difficulty is when a company like Apple sends a package as "signature required." First, will I be able to specify the Luna address, or will I be required to have the billing and shipping addresses match up? Second, will the Luna representative's signature be counted as an authorized signature for UPS's purposes?
Both of these things are mostly out of Luna's control, unless they enter negotiations with these companies. And while this should be a no-brainer for UPS from an efficiency standpoint, you really can't underestimate their ability to make bad decisions.
I have to say this is pretty awesome. I currently pay $8/mo for my USPS PO Box, but I'm wary to send expensive packages there since they have a tendency to misplace packages. So far, they've only lost one package, but there are many times where I'll go there and they can't locate a package. If I return several weeks later, they managed to find it.
I'm not a big fan of one time fees, but I can definitely see myself paying for a monthly subscription plan, similar to Amazon prime. Any thoughts of this in the near future?
I'd much rather have my packages delivered to a secure, conveniently located facility that notifies me of the delivery and that I can visit to pick up my package at my leisure. But then, I'm more concerned with completely offloading the stress over when my package might be delivered, whether or not it might get stolen, and whether or not I have to be there to sign off for it.
Still, this appears to be a useful step up from having packages delivered at random times throughout the day.
That's an understandable reaction. We need to build trust with our users and with the city. That comes with time and we'll get there.
For your peace of mind, our entire delivery fleet is background checked, interviewed and held to very high standards. We log every package that comes to us in great detail for any claims that could be made.
Give us a try, we think you'll like it. Your first delivery is free so you really have nothing to lose!
This is a cool service for urban areas, but I wonder if it's really true that UPS or FedEx wouldn't just do this if it became popular. For example, I recently discovered that with FedEx you can now schedule a delivery for 5-8PM for $5, and often UPS will deliver things during the evening, I assume because people are more likely to be home then.
I could see this working for very large bulky things you don't want to carry home, but for all small to moderately sized items, you can just have stuff shipped to the office.
I know that being in the App Store is a status symbol and so on, but most of my online shopping is still done on the web, and I sit in front of a computer at work - so most of the time I want to interact with Luna I'll probably be wanting a desktop experience.
I'm in NYC, so I can't use the service right now anyway. But if it launches here I'd be an absolute sucker for it, except that I won't be able to use it.