Its rather a case of each engineering profession is a regulated industry with an accreditation body, that certifies you as an engineer. Mechanical, electrical, electronic, chemical, industrial, civil, all have standards organisations, usually different ones in each country.
See IEEE for instance...
Also the engineer term is a protected designation in many countries, just as doctor and laywer is...
So no. engineers aren't guys that design stuff, and until the software industry is as regulated as the rest of the engineering industries are, software engineer is the wrong term. The only people who can call themselves software engineers perhaps is working in the medical device, avionics software etc. industries.
At least in the US (which has the largest software industry of anywhere in the world), the title of engineer is not regulated. Only the title "Professional Engineer" is regulated. Accreditation for engineers only applies to areas that have an impact on public safety. This means that civil engineers usually are accredited, but mechanical and electrical engineers usually aren't. So for people located in the US, it is perfectly appropriate to refer to someone as a software engineer.
I don't find that condescending. What I do find condescending is attempting to apply the laws of certain countries to the world as a whole. There are, in fact, many jurisdictions where being an engineer does not require any form of accreditation. The fact that some jurisdictions do require accreditation does not give engineers in other jurisdictions any less claim to the title.
The part where you claimed that only people who are officially accredited are engineers. People who live and work somewhere without such accreditation are completely justified in calling themselves engineers without being accredited.
My apologies then, I was not trying to force my viewpoint, I only shared it. Just as I don't believe anyone who's read Gray's anatomy (the book) can or should call themselves a doctor, just the same I don't believe anyone writing code should call themselves an engineer...
But again comparing modern day professions to the 19th century equivalent does not bode well for your argument. If you'd prefer the medical industry return to its standards and practices of the 19th century, your welcome to visit such a doctor.
I prefer my modern day certified medical professional.
The late 1800's is when doctors were first licensed in the US. Before that doctors practiced medicine but were not licensed, yet they were still doctors. Official licensing undoubtedly raises the quality of doctor's practicing medicine, but it is not an inherent quality of being a doctor. In most places, someone is not allowed to practice medicine without a license, but in places without medical licensing, someone who practices medicine without a license is still a doctor.
Engineering is the same. Licensing most likely raises the quality of engineers, but that does not mean an unlicensed person who does the job of an engineer is not an engineer.
Pray do tell where in the world is an unlicensed medical practitioner called a docter?
My point being, in this day and age, to call yourself a docter, you must be licensed. Bringing up history does nothing to change that fact. I would state that should also apply for engineers, and already does in most countries.
Merely the fact that train drivers are called engineers in the US proves my point. It dilutes the term to be basically meaningless.
Train drivers being called engineers has nothing to do with this. It is simply a coincidence that they happen to have the same name. They are sometimes called "engineers" but what they do is never called "engineering". No one thinks that the two jobs are the same thing any more than they think that an academic doctor is the same thing as a medical doctor. With software engineers, that is not the case. There is a great deal of academic study in the field of "software engineering".
There are, in fact, many places where engineer is not a protected title and to claim otherwise is just wrong. Many large countries like the US, UK and France do not restrict the use of the title engineer. They only restrict something like "Professional Engineer" or "Chartered Engineer".
It has everything to do with it. Just as much as you are saying what train drivers does has nothing to do with engineering, just the same I am saying writing javascript also has nothing to do with engineering...
There is a great deal of academic study in the field of "software engineering". That I agree with, but that academic research is being done by degree'd people, either with computer science or computer engineering degrees. Even still they don't practice engineering, they are researchers or scientist. Much like in the other engineering professions, scientists study and advance the engineering fields.
They only restrict something like "Professional Engineer" or "Chartered Engineer".
Ok that I agree with, but I restate, writing code does not make you an engineer, anymore than performing an operation makes me a doctor. Being board certified, makes you a docter. Same with engineering.
I would hope we would have gone a bit further than the Renaissance era in how we define professional fields. Would you also call Leonardo da Vinci a doctor, since he did breakthrough anatomical work?
In that same vein, would you call a random person digging up graves and dissecting corpses a doctor today? Would you let them operate on you?
Leonardo da Vinci wasn't a doctor because he didn't practice medicine. He studied corpses; he didn't operate on living humans. On the other hand, it would be ludicrous to say that Hippocrates wasn't a doctor.
I wouldn't let either operate on me, but I also wouldn't let a licensed doctor from 1920 operate on me either. Modern doctors have vastly superior medical knowledge compared to historical doctors, but that doesn't mean that historical people who practiced medicine aren't doctors.
So let me get this straight. You guys insist on using the definition of the word engineer as stated in the renaissance era, not the modern definition, but also then want to apply that definition to software, which didn't exist for another 400 years afterward?
Its rather a case of each engineering profession is a regulated industry with an accreditation body, that certifies you as an engineer. Mechanical, electrical, electronic, chemical, industrial, civil, all have standards organisations, usually different ones in each country.
See IEEE for instance...
Also the engineer term is a protected designation in many countries, just as doctor and laywer is...
So no. engineers aren't guys that design stuff, and until the software industry is as regulated as the rest of the engineering industries are, software engineer is the wrong term. The only people who can call themselves software engineers perhaps is working in the medical device, avionics software etc. industries.