Ask HN: How and when to pitch an angel?

[aditya]

There's a lot of info out there on pitching VCs and what the deck should include but not so much on pitching angels for smaller seed stage investments, so:

* What is the right time to pitch an angel? Is it after the alpha but before traction or after a good amount of traction?

* What should a pitch deck for angels include?

[paulsingh]

I recently closed some money with angels and your results will surely vary (so take all of this this with a grain of salt):

* It's never too early to pitch an angel. IMHO, angels are generally comfortable investing before you have real traction - smart angels have told me that they invest in people, not ideas. So, the takeaway is that you want to start talking to angels early - let them know what you're up to and, if there's mutual interest, you'll get to the next level.

* Your deck should include the Kawasaki 10: http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2005/12/the_102030_rule.html Though, don't whip your deck out on the first date -- I've had more success by having informal coffee/lunch meetings first. If they want to know more, that's when you send them the deck.

* When in doubt, remember this: "Ask for advice and you may eventually get money. Ask for money and you'll often get advice."

Finally, if you want to continue the conversation offline, I'd be happy to help -- feel free to email me.

[joshu → paulsingh]

This is great advice, and covers a great deal of what I look for when I am acting as angel.

Personally, I am looking for:

- A solid idea and initial implementation; you can't tell how good an idea will be until it is embodied. I don't want to even talk to two MBAs with a powerpoint deck. I'd much rather see a hacker and a codebase.

- A team I would consider actually working with or for. If they are hard to get along with now, it will be worse later (this is true in the opposite direction as well.)

- Business plans and TAM and all that crap? Forget it. I want product vision and an ability to roll with the punches. Business plans end up on the floor and TAM is just wishful thinking.

There's also a bunch of things I look for in the products, but I guess that's more investing philosophy.

[aditya → joshu]

Are you looking to invest in more east coast based startups, Josh? :-)

[joshu → aditya]

Joshua.

Mostly west coast...

[aditya → paulsingh]

Thanks Paul, this was super helpful. Your email isn't in your profile, but if you drop me a note, I'd love to pick your brain a little bit: aditya at sublucid dot com

[pg]

When (a) you're ready for the distraction of fund-raising, and (b) you think an intelligent person would be convinced by what you have so far.

You don't usually need a formal deck. Ask the investor.

[aditya → pg]

(b) you think an intelligent person would be convinced by what you have so far.

Convinced of what? That they're making a worthwhile investment? How do you know when you've hit that point where you're ready to ask someone for money? Is this further down the road from making something people want?

[htsh]

When I did it back in 1999, we raised angel money right after we had a team & a short business plan with a powerpoint but not even an alpha product yet. Our idea required enough development work that we couldn't really manage while keeping our full time jobs. (http://web.archive.org/web/20001019030551/http://emfocus.com...)

And from what I've seen of the relatively new seed investment firms, you can approach some just as early - an idea, a team, and a plan (sometimes as short as a few pages). Some would prefer that you not even incorporate yet.

It was 1999, though, and likely less formal relative to the more mature market now. Back then it seemed most angels were friends or family of the founders. The boom was so strong that getting early investors was no more difficult than talking to friends who liked to invest. You could also work with an incubator but we didn't call those guys "angels."

[Arun2009]

I recently left my full time job to concentrate on developing a prototype application for my idea. What I intend to do is to complete a kick ass prototype and website, run it by a few potential customers, and THEN scout for angels if there's a need for it. My principle is that if you're a half-decent programmer, then your prototype should be your pitch. More than a way to get rich, I am treating it as an acid test of how good a developer I am.

[AlexTheFounder]

The difference in pitching a VC vs. an angel is in presenting your far goals. I guess no VC will like your promise to quickly become a profitable company with few employees only and making hundreds of thousands per year, and not going to grow beyond that. Angels might like that more than having to wait several years to get a smaller slice from a bigger pie.

[demosthenes]

There aren't any hard and fast rules here.

It's rarely too early to get in touch with angels and get on the radar if you expect that you'll need funding.

Meanwhile, keep in mind that the longer you wait, the more traction you get, the better your bargaining position and the higher the valuation.

[aditya → demosthenes]

So there's no real difference between pitching an angel vs a VC then?

[edw519]

http://www.amazon.com/One-Page-Proposal-Business-Pitch-Persu...

[minalecs]

how do you get in touch with angel investors