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> Holding an amount of currency isn't taxable

It is in Norway - any cash or deposits in excess of 750.000 NOK (around 125.000 USD or so) is taxed in addtion to interest being taxed as income.

Now, cash isn't easily detectable, so it is a very easy asset to hide -- but while possible, that would be tax evasion and is illegal.




Taxed at what percent? Ludicrous.


Why ? Seems like a great tax to me. The people who are most likely to be hoarding large sums of cash are the type of people who you want to be taxing.


Nobody hoards large sums of cash. Cash is deposited into a bank, and the bank loans it out to someone who spends it. That's how banks make money, and why they are able to pay you interest on your deposit.


1. Wealthy people hoard large sums of cash.

2. Banks stopped making most of their money from deposits a long time ago.


> Wealthy people hoard large sums of cash.

I'm curious where you think they put all that currency. You could argue they're hiding it from the tax authorities by putting it in a safe deposit box, but by definition nobody knows how much cash there actually is in those boxes, and of course raising taxes on such cash hoards isn't going to affect such.

> Banks stopped making most of their money from deposits a long time ago.

Consider this advertisement:

https://www.key.com/personal/promotions/dda/200cash.jsp?sqkl...

If banks were not making money from deposits, why are they offering $200 in cash to open a checking account?


Banks make money from charging you for the privilege of using your own money.

Monthly account-maintenance fee. ATM fee. Fee if you don't have direct deposit. Fee for cashing checks. Fee for using a teller. Fee if they process debits before credits so as to push you into overdraft even though, by chronological transaction order, you never overdrafted.

They don't make money by accepting deposits and making loans; they make money by squeezing fees out of people who don't have much money.


Where does my bank make its money then?

https://www.coastcapitalsavings.com/Personal/Banking/Chequin...

Unlimited debit/atm/teller/billpay/cheque/dd/dw transactions, no minimum limit, no requirement for direct deposit (but if you use it, its free too), no monthly fee.


Congratulations, you've got a relatively customer-friendly bank. If you think you can generalize from that to banking in general, you need to read up on what banks in general do these days.


Key bank has free checking and free atm usage and free teller usage. Perhaps you should transfer your checking account there, especially since they're offering $200 for new accounts.

> they make money by squeezing fees out of people who don't have much money

They do make money from people who don't pay attention to their balance - regardless of whether they are poor or not.

> They don't make money by accepting deposits and making loans

That perplexes me since they constantly try to sell me loans.


They do make money from people who don't pay attention to their balance - regardless of whether they are poor or not.

It is unfortunately the case that being poor is much more expensive than being rich. Banks on average know and take advantage of this.


> Nobody hoards large sums of cash

i completely disagree.

first of all, you're arguing semantics, and you know very well that there are many fractional reserve bank accounts with lots of accumulated cash available for withdrawal at any time. that is a working, popular, valid definition of "hoarding cash".

second, do not underestimate the amount of cold, hard, paper (polymer?) cash hidden in safe deposit boxes distributed around the world. you can bet your bottom dollar (har har) that this cash isn't being lent out to commercial banking clients and mortgage buyers. it's sitting in boxes, unused. in a certain sense, it's an anti-inflationary savings mechanism.

that's not even counting the gold, platinum, pearls, diamonds, precious gems, and etc.


I understand fractional reserve banking. It's a percentage (I think around 10%) of the deposits the government requires a bank to keep on hand. The rest of the deposits are all loaned out back into the economy.

Note that the government requires this reserve because otherwise the bank will loan it out, i.e. the bank doesn't actually desire to keep cash on hand. Neither do rich people. Even drug lords don't want cash hoards, it's why they launder it.

It's not splitting hairs over semantics. People who have money in the bank do not have a cash hoard that they are withholding from the economy.

As far as people keeping assets in safety deposit boxes, nobody has any idea how much is in them, so it's rather pointless to talk about them. I do find it hard to believe that Apple's billions in "cash" is really a hoard in a safety deposit box that's withheld from the economy.

>that is a working, popular, valid definition of "hoarding cash".

Not in the sense we are discussing of it being withheld from the economy.

(For fun, watch Breaking Bad, where one of Heisenberg's biggest problems is trying to convert cubic feet of cash into something he can spend.)


Seems like a great way to discourage saving and keeping people living hand to mouth.


You are making assumptions on a system you know nothing about (otherwise you wouldn't have written what you wrote).

Read about how this tax work before complaining about it, please. It's only for generally big amounts of money, and your mortgage and other stuff is subtracted, making it a non-issue for almost everyone. And you can fine invest the money instead.


Indeed. Why, if the government applies small taxes to cash savings of over 125k, I just won't save at all!

Wait, what?


Which, of course, is the basis of modern macroeconomics -- keep people spending as much as possible.


Which is how you keep the economy growing.


Seems like a horrible tax because it's not your property. It doesn't matter if the person in question has many resources or few, those resources are not yours to steal (or "tax", or whatever euphemism for aggression you want to use).


If you insist of using politically biased terms like "steal" for it, conversely your opponents can just as easily justify reaching for Proudhon and his "property is theft".


So that they take their money somewhere else?


I agree, the thought of merely holding money being a taxable event seems weird (speaking as an American). That said, it's a great way to ensure that people don't hoard cash and instead spend it or invest it (in theory, keeping the economy moving).


Well if you put it into a bank account the money will actually be being invested by the bank anyway.


Around 1%. The reasoning is partly to encourage reinvestment (stocks are taxed differently).


How is that any different than controlled dilution of a fiat currency, like the Federal Reserve does? The net result is the same.


The Fed controls reserves, not net financial assets. The net result from a fiscal injection and a financial composition shift is not the same at all.


Exactly how do they differ? My impression is that the net result (depreciation of cash assets) is the same.


Increasing the amount of available reserves doesn't really transmit to inflation as it's constrained by demand for loans. The loanable funds model which says that increases in reserves leads directly to increases in loans doesn't really apply under a floating-rate non-convertible currency regime.


Interesting, thank you.


Yeah, direct tax is a lot more fair.


It's actually sort of the opposite. Interest based money is designed so that the numeric value grows over time. A tax on holdings makes its numeric value decrease over time. See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency)


No, it's the same thing, as that link points out:

Both inflation and demurrage reduce the purchasing power of money held over time, but demurrage does so through fixed, regular fees while inflation does so through expansion of the money supply by a central monetary authority distributing newly issued currency or through endogenous money creation (such as fractional reserve banking).


In the Netherlands, all assets over €21K (roughly $28K) are taxed at 1.2 %. This includes cash, bonds, stocks, real estate held for investment, paintings held as investments; everything that is not for personal use (so cars and yachts are not included, nor are second homes for personal use).

Yes it is preposterous.



How is it more ludicrous than property tax?


I'm considering to open an account with a Norwegian bank, say Bank Norwegian, as a low risk investment. What is currently the untaxable annual income? I believe it used to be 30K NOK a few years ago.


Same in France,you're taxed on the capital (accounts, real-estate, etc) above a certain amount (something around .75M I believe)




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