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Coffee vs. beer: which drink makes you more creative? (medium.com/what-i-learned-today)
62 points by kevingibbon on May 29, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 67 comments



Obligatory: "Why not both?"

Many of my most productive hours that stand out in my memory were during binges of "four loko" back when it still had the caffeine (really the only upside of that beverage. Really horrifying stuff otherwise.) Somehow vodka/redbulls never really get me to the same place.


Four Loko also is loaded with sugar. If as an experiment, you really want to suffer, try this:

http://www.currentground.com/daily/blackout/blast-blueberry-...

...it's got to be that flavor. There's an amazing surprise at the end. Like as in, 24 hours later.


Hmm, sugar could be it. Now that I think about it I always use diet redbull with vodka/redbulls...


My friend and I have 'Tuesdays'. School used to suck, so we went to the bar every Tuesday to get away from it. We've been doing this for about two years now. It's an open time to talk about whatever comes up. We've built some nice mental structures over the years.

Ideas are so fragile, interruptions often shatter them. The idea 'zen' is off when there's distractions. You can't really get in the zone. So we go to the bar alone (where no one can say "I don't know what you guys are talking about"), get tanked, and talk.

Alcohol absolutely helps with creativity. It makes bad ideas sound better. It lets you see the world differently (if you're still capable of thinking while drinking). It lets you gain perspective, although a muddy one. I think it helps significantly with seeing better pictures in your head. I can sometimes place where a thought came from (I thought of this, saw this picture, thought of this, played with this picture), but when I'm drinking, I get the final picture "HERE, TAKE THIS!". I don't see any of the intermediate steps (they've gone subconscious or something). It's a pretty fun way to think of ideas.


Even if all it did was make bad ideas sound better, it wouldn't be worthless, at least if you believe what pops up on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5635461


> The idea 'zen' is off when there's distractions. You can't really get in the zone.

This thinking can be dangerous, if it makes you more distracted by unavoidable distractions.


The title might as well be "COBOL vs. FORTRAN: which programming language makes you more productive?", if you catch my drift. Why limit yourself to 2nd circuit depressants or 3rd circuit stimulants?


...circuit?


Referring to the "eight circuits of consciousness" I believe. I'd google it up, but I'm on the company network right now.


I have heard of the Ballmer Peak, but for me even a single pint of beer totally kills my ability to write code. My creative peak seems to be the first few hours after a really good night's sleep.


even a single pint of beer totally kills my ability to write code

That's probably true, but you might realize what code you should actually be writing ("I know! A social network for pet owners!"), or some other higher-level idea. I can't speak much for code, but I can say that I get ideas for fiction or essays after a drink or two but wouldn't want write new material in the same state.


I used to think that coffee made me more productive, then I realized that coffee just makes me too hyper to concentrate. Now, when I want to focus, I either drink ice water or decaf chai tea.

And alcohol? Forget, I can't focus on anything code related after even one drink. I have no Ballmer's peak.


   Always in moderation
   If you decide to drink coffee or beer while you’re working, 
   stick to no more than 2 drinks per sitting and try not to 
   do this more than once or twice per week to prevent 
   dependency.
Everything in moderation, including moderation.


For sprints, either. For marathons, neither.

Knowing which is which is half the battle.


There is a great theory that the enlightenment started because Europeans started drinking coffee for breakfast, instead of beer.


> So while you may feel that coffee is giving you more energy, it’s simply telling your body that your energy reserves are good to go even after they’re long gone.

I'm not an expert by any means, but this isn't quite what I learned in my undergraduate course on metabolic biochemistry. Caffeine simply encourages you to burn more energy by the mechanisms outlined by the author. However, you cannot burn energy reserves after they are gone. Where would the energy come from? You have carbohydrate reserves and you have fat reserves. Carbohydrates will go first, and once depleted caffeine will cause you to burn more fat than you normally would. The effect is somewhere around 10% for average consumption levels. When you have burned all of the usable carbohydrates and fat in your body, you start burning protein. That is called ketogenesis. It results in muscle breakdown, and the ketones produced are one of the reasons crack addicts smell kind of funny. Caffeine will not induce ketogenesis unless you are drinking way too much and not eating nearly enough. Note that there aren't super sharp transitions from carbs to fat and from fat to protein.


Ketosis is an alternative method of using fats for energy in the absence of normal process using glucose. The presence of ketones on your breath makes a "fruity" smell that can range from minor to fairly unpleasant. It may make your mouth taste "metallic".

When your body is breaking down protein for energy, you will smell like ammonia, which is significantly different smelling than ketones like acetone.


Okay, so ketosis (ketogenesis?) is one step before breaking down proteins, i.e. first you smell like ketones, then you smell like ammonia?


Basically, you don't have to enter ketosis on the way to burning proteins for energy.

If you stop eating entirely, you will enter ketosis and also be breaking down some protein for energy as soon as your blood glucose and your liver glycogen is depleted (your brain still needs about 20 grams of glucose a day even in ketosis, so gluconeogenesis will occur turning protein into glucose). You probably won't even smell the ammonia at this rate, since it's pretty low.

After being in ketosis for a while (a few weeks) your body gets better at producing ketones on demand instead of just supplying them all the time and the acetone smell decreases substantially, but you still shouldn't be breaking down protein unless you are low body fat and not eating enough fat for the calories you need.

I never smell like ammonia unless I'm working out really hard and in ketosis.

If you aren't lazy, you can work hard enough to smell like ammonia no matter what you eat if you are pushing yourself really hard in an anaerobic exercise set.


Wow, that was an awesome explanation. Thanks.


Not a problem at all.


> When you have burned all of the usable carbohydrates and fat in your body, you start burning protein. That is called ketogenesis.

The name of the process you're probably looking for here is gluconeogenesis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis


Right, ok. Thanks. It's related to but distinct from ketosis / ketogenesis, and I was conflating them.


There's the quote "Write drunk, edit sober" that writers are fond of using. I wrote about this myself not two weeks ago, believing them to be related: https://medium.com/editors-picks/f79b411687b9. Sometimes we have to relax ourselves to let creativity flow, whether that be writing or coding.


I've had some creative sessions w/ moderate Yerba mate consumption and haven't experienced the health issues some say it has.


At least for me if I drink too much my heartbeat accelerates, so I have no reason to drink a lot.

I love Erva Mate (I'm Brazilian, it's how we say "Yerba Mate" in Portuguese) and try to drink some every morning. I love a beer as well.

Out of curiosity, are you from South America?


The one time I've gotten my heart rate to 192, I had about two liters of Mate in the in the morning, then ran up our local training hill (approx. 1200ft elevation gain) in about 30 minutes. No problems with arrhythmia, though.


I found out about Yerba mate when looking for alternatives for coffee. BTW, I'm in the Southern US near Atlanta.


Probably beer.

Because when i write code, i always want to extend code to cover all case scenario's... in the best architecture (DDD-design). I want it to be perfect and bla bla bla, ...

I think i can extend to infinity trying to cover all possible situations...

When i'm coding on beer, i just don't care and code and ship it...

So beer makes me more productive...


Coffee definitely! esp the first few minutes after consuming it when the altered state (caffeine high) kicks in. My belief is that your mind needs a state change to create a moment of insight/s. Like Einstein said, “We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them”.

Not sure if I would classify a “eureka moment” as creativity. Eureka moments are bursts of solving/finding answers to something. I agree that they happen during relaxed states (non beta waves). Creativity is something that feels like it is more associated to a state of flow achieved when one is in the moment.

The best “eureka moments” I've had were always in an isolation tank when floating like a cork all relaxed in 1/3 epsom salt. Such a powerful yet under used tool!


Looks like the Ballmer peak was about 2x too high. https://xkcd.com/323/ Unless... the Microsoft programmers already had a tolerance to alcohol? :)


Question. How cat focus help in creativity? If you want to make new connections in brain -> creativity -> isn't that opposite of focusing? Hmmm,

Sorry on bad english, 4 beers + not primary language :-)


What about us water-only folk? Do we miss out on the super powers?


Go water! I find it helps me stay focused and energized over the long haul. My drinking routine is based on the assumption[0] that thinking burns as much energy as physical work, and thus I need to stay hydrated.

[0] Related comic: http://wondermark.com/930/


Considering that coffee and beer are both 90+% water, I'd say that you're not getting the most bang for your buck!


I've been starting the day with a tall glass of water mixed with 2-3 teaspoons of Chia Seed. I won't attribute super powers to it, but it has started me off with a bit more energy than coffee.


I'm usually water-only but when I do have occasional coffee or beer with work I notice that I focus a lot better. It doesn't last and I'm not sure if it's more productive but I get a lot done.


This article makes me feel like I'm sitting around watching people snort Extremis.


Yes, you miss out. :-)

Here is one of my standard references. tl;dr: According to present understanding, coffee is surprisingly healthy. (For most people; some have problems with e.g. stomach or their enzymes are bad at breaking down caffeine.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_coffee


As an espresso drinker, I found the "little 14-ounce mug" funny. That said, I don't really feel their effects, even if I take an extra shot. Sleeping definitively works, though.


Espresso


Thanks, fixed.


LSD for creativity mixed amphetamine salts for productivity


I was just about to say the same :)


With what programming language does that even work?


All of them. Which can you read at the end? Maybe your Python. Definitely not my Common Lisp or C.


Writing new X11 screensavers. :P


Brainfuck


TFA has coffee as being bad for creative thought and good for doing stupid things fast. I would bet that the various effects are bi- or n-modal. For me, it's GREAT for creative thought and pretty bad when it comes time to get things done, since I don't focus as well. It took me at least a decade to realize I was being less productive because I was enjoying the amped-up feeling from the caffeine.


Sipping away on rum + energy drink as we speak. Alcahol + caffeine + sugar all in one small glass for sipping. For me it's a kind of magic combination that really helps me focus although that's not necessarily the same thing as creativity I suppose.


Surely a coffee-infused stout can provide the best of both worlds?

That said, unless it's a side project that isn't in real use I don't tend to work after drinking alcohol, but it's a rare day that I don't work "under the influence" of espresso.


The author should credit The Oatmeal for that awesome caffeine picture.


Thanks for the catch. Added a source element but Medium doesn't let you link photos so I credited it in the sentence before: http://cl.ly/image/0G0Q2S2D2h3L


The word "illustration" in the sentence above it does link to the The Oatmeal, but you're right it should probably be clearer.


Yep, just noticed. I clicked on that link originally, but it didn't load for some reason.


He links to The Oatmeal in "illustration".


I would like to see an article of this nature written about Kava Kava


Green gunpowder FTW!


It wants me to log in with Twitter. Why?


wait

this bacterial issue in the water can't be fixed by boiling your water before you make coffee???


Coffee is usually brewed a little below boiling, and in any case blasting water to 212°F and then serving it doesn't always kill all the bacteria- you need to boil it for a couple minutes. I forget how long though.


If bacteria are a problem where you libe you can simply boil your water for a few minutes, take it off the heat for it to cool down to the temp you want, and then use it to brew coffee.


Right, but if the office has a coffeemaker and no stove, you can't do that.


You can get an LED bacteria pen. Those will kill most of the bacteria in the water before using it to make coffee.

Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/SteriPEN-Adventurer-Opti-Handheld-Puri...


Those aren't LED. It's an unshielded UV lamp.


The office probably has a water cooler though right? You could probably fill the coffee maker with that.


coffee.




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