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Google to announce new App Engine runtime for "very popular language" at I/O (plus.google.com)
47 points by pdknsk on May 1, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 55 comments



Speaking of PHP in the clouds... fun fact: you can push PHP files to Heroku and they'll "just work".

Do it in 30 seconds:

    mkdir ~/testypoo && cd ~/testypoo
    echo "<?php phpinfo(); ?>" > index.php
    git init
    git add .
    git commit -m "woohoo php in the cloud!"
    heroku create
    git push heroku master
Now enjoy your insanely simple + free PHP hosting. I was pretty excited and surprised when I discovered this.


> Now enjoy your insanely simple + free PHP hosting.

"Simple" and "free", sure, but "enjoy"?


As much as I dislike PHP as a language I am still insanely productive in it for dynamic websites. I enjoy being productive more then I enjoy using the latest languages/frameworks.

So yes. I enjoy using PHP for all its faults.


I feel a bit bad for taking that cheap shot at PHP, to be honest. We're all adults, and you should use whatever makes you more productive. A good programmer can write maintainable code in any language.

However, "productive" and "latest frameworks/languages" is a bit of a false dichotomy.


I agree. But I have seen many programmers claim they will be more productive in language/framework X because its new.

As for cheap shots at PHP, I see PHP like the USA. Easy to take cheap shots at because its so large and runs so much. For all its faults/flaws its still pretty productive though.

I am an Aussie for the record.


> I agree. But I have seen many programmers claim they will be more productive in language/framework X because its new.

I've never seen that. I've seen many programmers claim that they will be more productive in new language/framework X because it includes a combination of features A, B, and C that aren't found together in other languages/framewors, but never simply because the language/framework is new.

The closest I've seen to the "because its new" thing is "because it doesn't have the accumulated cruft of framework Z", but while that may be related to newness, its still about features, rather than newness alone.


Sorry that's actually what I meant. "I will be more productive with X because it has Y feature". They still tend to underestimate though.

Don't get me wrong, i'm all for new technology but bleeding edge on new projects can be a recipe for failure most of the time.


> Don't get me wrong, i'm all for new technology but bleeding edge on new projects can be a recipe for failure most of the time.

That's a fairly good reason for bleeding edge to be used as one track of a dual- (or multi-) track project which includes a short-turn-around, low-risk, low-reward track and one (or more) higher-risk, high-reward, longer-turnaround track.

This is equally true regardless of whether the project is "new".


I remember having a support ticket with Heroku about this. I found the feature through tyring to create a Facebook app.

I then asked if I can use the platform for non-Facebook apps. Here's their response:

"Hi– it's not yet officially supported, but if you try pushing one, you'll find that it works."


Also note that there are a few more sophisticated PHP buildpacks contributed by Heroku users. Here's a good example that uses nginx for the web server and Composer for dependency management: https://github.com/iphoting/heroku-buildpack-php-Tyler/

To use:

    heroku config:add BUILDPACK_URL=git://github.com/iphoting/heroku-buildpack-php-tyler.git


The pre-release of the python SDK released yesterday contains a PHP runtime

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/google-a...


Is it OCaml? I bet it's OCaml.


No way, gotta be something more mainstream: Haskell.


Nope. Erlang.



Erlang!


Erlang?


Well, I see you've fixed the bug then.


Woah, desperate much?

Headline roughly translates to "we're willing to pay the perpetual maintenance cost of a new runtime because our existing runtimes aren't attracting enough users to justify the product", and the reasons for that cannot be fixed by adding yet another layer of lipstick to a pig.

Having worked on 7k+ reqs/sec sites on App Engine I can expand on this in great depth, but please google my comment history before making me write another essay!


> Woah, desperate much?

I doubt that desperation is an issue.

> Headline roughly translates to "we're willing to pay the perpetual maintenance cost of a new runtime because our existing runtimes aren't attracting enough users to justify the product"

No, it doesn't. You may interpret it that way, but that's not a translation, that's your unsupported ascription of a motive.

It would be at least as justifiable an interpretation to say that this is a sign that the AppEngine platform has matured as a standalone product (rather than just a way to derive some incidental revenue at low cost from infrastructure Google has to have to support their core services) that they are getting around to supporting languages with heavy market demand but little internal traction in Google, rather than what is internally-useful to Google.


To this end, did anyone suggest Heroku was a dying platform when they announced Python support? I sure didn't hear anything like that.


Adding frequently requested features to your product is now "desperation"?


It is when you've ignored them forever. Why would you then be listening? Because you are trying to keep the users you have.


The users AppEngine has now are, pretty much by definition, not the ones for whom PHP is a make or break feature.

So that doesn't even make sense as explanation.


I'm sure they verified before making this decision that the income from these new PHP customers will surpass the maintenance cost. Also consider that this decision may not even affect Google's costs, because they have enough maintenance engineers idling at any given time to assign to App Engine PHP maintenance.


How is App Engine as a product currently unjustified?


I hope people will put some effort in making WordPress compatible with App Engine. WordPress' reliance on local files is usually a big pain point.


There also seems to be a dearth of good FOSS CMS's for AppEngine, which would otherwise be a great platform for that.

A WordPress port might also make a strong full service option for SMB's self-hosting their public corporate site on Word Press but using Google Apps for email and corporate infrastructure. Now they can put it all on the same P/IaaS.


Here's hoping it's 6502 assembly.


You probably want its successor, the 65c816. Has a handy single instruction for getting a first pass of your web app running - MVP.


Mother of God.

Can you imagine how awesome it would be if they actually supported this on GAE?


Especially if they added some way to plug in your old SNES carts. Super Mario Web - not as capable as the semantic web but a lot more fun.


Well according to GitHub it's either JavaScript or Ruby (PHP is only 6th) https://github.com/languages


Github is a representative sample of published open source software, not of code being used in production.


Right and that's what I meant, by saying "according to GitHub".


Well if Google was following their GAE issue list then it will most likely be PHP (#1 3274 stars) followed by Perl (#2 2246 stars) and then Ruby (#3 2162 stars).

ref: http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list


Implying that the 6th most popular language on GitHub can't qualify as "very popular"?


Sweet, been wanting PHP support on App Engine for a long time.


I am honestly surprised it took this long.

Can't say PHP is my favorite but I know lots people who use it every day.

Will it take 5 years before they have ruby on rails?


JRuby and Rails, AFAIK, have been able to run on the Java runtime for quite some time.


just throwing this in the hat, C# and .NET. It's possible...


I was thinking C# (mono) as well. My second guess would be Javascript. Looking in existing runtimes for hints is cheating.)


PHP or Ruby probably


Javascript


I was hoping for node or dart, but it looks like PHP instead?


PHP is the #1 feature request on their tracking page (and has been since almost day 1).

I assume/hope that it's not so much that people want to use PHP on AppEngine as it is they want to use popular PHP applications (WordPress and so on).


Dart doesn't come close to qualifying as a "very popular" language.


>Dart doesn't come close to qualifying as a "very popular" language.

Dart doesn't come close to qualifying as a "popular" language.

Fixed. :)


In the moments between the time I saw this and the time I saw that it was almost certainly PHP, I was hoping for JavaScript, with Ruby as a close second preference.

I can see why PHP makes sense, though, even though I have zero interest.


I really doubt it's Dart, which is not ready for this kind of service.


Let me guess, "Go" ? :-)


Go was the previous language added to App Engine.


Maybe they are forking it and calling it "Went"? I keed, I keed.


or "How I learned to stop worrying and love ruby."


asp.net!




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