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A lawyer's analysis of Bilbo's contract in The Hobbit (wired.com)
94 points by ValentineC on Jan 18, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 21 comments



"...given the contract’s length and its role in the film... a lesser studio or artist might have been tempted to go with several pages of lorum ipsum"

So he's basically praising pointless lawyering! :)

Or a more charitable reading: he's geeking out as we might about the terminal commands in a 'hacker' movie.


<off topic> I really can't stand it when websites like Wired usurp my back button. They even do it in a way where:

- Clicking back twice in rapid succession doesn't bring me back;

- Clicking and holding back button and selecting HN doesn't take me back;

which is a feat few other websites manage to pull off. I wonder if they had a team put together just for this purpose. Would have loved to be a fly on the wall in one of those meetings.

"How can we keep people on our site longer?"

"Sir, I know! Lets not let them leave!"

"Brilliant! Someone make this guy CEO stat!"

Utterly frustrating and inexcusable for a technology website.

</sorry>


Keep in mind the old saw, don't ascribe to malice that which is explained by incompetence. Any site with a bunch of scripting buttons and "partner content" and AJAXy stuff laboriously glued on by legions of mediocre and outsourced developers over multiple years will find itself prone to screwing up the browser history accidentally. And when it happens, it's not anybody's job responsibility to fix it or even care about fixing it.

That said, yeah Wired may be doing it on purpose, but we don't know either way, unless someone uncovers some too-clever-to-be-a-mistake behavior in the code.


This pissed me off as much as you and I couldn't help, but take a few minutes and dig into the site a little. I found the following:

* This only affects me in Chrome (using the dev channel).

* Firefox Aurora (20.0a2) with noscript off doesn't have the back button 'hijack'.

* A quick debug in Chrome with F8 (stop script execution) and immediately pressing back shows there's a few 'hidden' functions being run -- not sure how to view those quite yet.


Oh man, you're much braver than I.

FWIW I'm on Chrome 24.0.1312.52 OSX.

I tried to take a gander but it's such a jumbled mess of affiliate/ad bs that I doubt even they'd be able to fix it.


No back button issues here. I'm running Chromium Version 25.0.1323.1 on Ubuntu 12.10.


What I've got a problem with is that they bind the "j"/"k" keys to navigate between articles. Which sucks if you're running Vimium/Vimperator and try to scroll. All of a sudden there will be a dozen links to the same article under your back button.


On the issue of the Dwarven Kingdom, the point about choice of law is further complicated by the fact that Thorin, a party to the Contract, is the de jure ruler of Erebor (or 'King Under the Mountain'), and, depending on the Folk of Durin's constituional/legal tradition, could be considered a (even the only) judge - or else might issue royal decrees to overturn a ruling.

As the Shire lacks an effective government, and particularly lacks awareness of matters outside its borders, Bilbo could easily be strung up under a foreign legal system if he crossed Thorin.


Concerning your point about Thorin being the only judge:

> Disputes arising between the Contract Parties shall be heard and judged by an arbitrator of the Company’s choosing

By that clause, the company should be able to choose Thorin as the arbitrator regardless of the fact that he's the King Under the Mountain. That fact alone would put Bilbo in dire straights if, like you said, he ever crossed Thorin.


Actually, the Shire had a mayor & sheriffs.


Proof that a Lawyer can suck the life out of anything?


The Hobbit is a story for kids; and by the point grown men make million-dollar budget movies out of it, there isn't much of the original life left, anyway.

The original contract is super short; the movie contract is extremely bloated... maybe it really does take a lawyer to call that bloating "an impressive piece of work". Impressive would have been to make a children's movie out of a children's book, instead of doing whatever with it and staining the careers of otherwise fine actors, just because it can't fight back and money is nice to have.

If this offends anyone; good. The existance of all these movies, their treatment of legit stories for children to turn them into brainless crap ala Star Wars, offends me as well.


> If this offends anyone; good. The existance of all these movies, their treatment of legit stories for children to turn them into brainless crap ala Star Wars, offends me as well.

Well, the inability to appreciate beauty or subtlety in a movie offends me. What's the more brainless, the person who watches a movie and contemplates it, or one who dismisses it without a thought?


What's the more brainless, the person who watches a movie and contemplates it, or one who dismisses it without a thought?

Without a thought, and without paying attention to any indicators.. or merely without watching the full-length movie? Huge difference. But I appreciate the irony of telling me how my decision-making process goes without having the faintest idea of it, not to mention my ability to appreciate beauty or "subtlety". Subtlety.. I might watch The Hobbit one day just to think back to this post and laugh.


So you made your comment without having even seen the movie? That seems to give you even less of a position from which to call something "brainless crap" surely? If I've mis-spoken because I haven't fully appreciated your decision making process, it's because you didn't make enough of an effort to articulate it in the first place.

But whatever. I think I'll take a lesson from The Hobbit myself right now, which is don't feed the trolls, for nothing good will come of it.


I've seen LOTR, and I read the book (at an appropriate age too haha). I "know" The Hobbit is no less pompous and derpificated a conversion. Just looking at still images of it is enough for me. The good guys are good looking, the bad guys are ugly, music tells you what to feel every step along of the way, all of that crap; I know it, and I don't see anyone denying it. So I'm simply trusting my intuition on this, you know?

How much shovelware do I have to take before I am allowed to skip one? I don't even think Tolkien was the greatest author ever (there's just so much random stuff in LOTR for example), but for me there is bounds and leaps more humanity in one of any of those books than in all LOTR movies combined; so unless I missed the dude remarking that LOTR was horrible, and that he is making The Hobbit differently to make up for it, I know that for me this thing is going to be neither subtle, nor beautiful. I just didn't want to point all of this out in detail because it makes me seem like such a snob, I'll take the "troll" thanks. If this stuff is fine art for you, I'll be rolling in the dirt having fun.


> How much shovelware do I have to take before I am allowed to skip one?

Before you skip one? As much as suits your preference, of course!

But in this case, you took pride in offending other people, some of them with more information than you (e.g. they watched the movie). And you appear to be engaged in a protracted (3-comment) campaign to defend your analysis of the movie. It should be obvious that this campaign is doomed to failure, given that you explicitly admit ignorance of the actual subject matter. How much shovelware do you have to take before you successfully persuade other HN commenters of your analysis of the shovelware? Probably all of it.

I only mention all this as a suggestion on how to better enjoy your time commenting on fora, and how to help others to better enjoy their time. Just a suggestion, YMMV.

Maybe off-topic: I wasn't very impressed with the LOTR movie adaptation either, and I'm not bothering to see The Hobbit. But, you know, whatever. The books are available any time I want to re-read them. No big need to attempt to offend passers-by with my disdain.


Well, I seem to have at least 5 peeps who silently agree -- two who vocally disagree. And you didn't mention anything in the movie, you know, pointing out a flaw in what I said; and you won't even watch it yourself - so what exactly are you berating me for? lmao...

you explicitly admit ignorance of the actual subject matter

Bullshit. Read it again, slowly this time.

No big need to attempt to offend passers-by with my disdain.

There is plenty of need. Nietzsche said "it's not your job to be a fly swatter", and I was all like "fuck you Nietzsche, you can't tell me what to do!". It's nice for you if that's not your thing, but not really relevant to me otherwise.


I can understand an appreciation, but a need seems pathological.


I actually read the article with interest because I took a law course once and now being in software business we have to read/write/execute contracts all the time.


Wow. Didn't realize a lawyer could have such nerd cred. Respect.




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