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SiteChat: a postmortem. Or, the rise and fall of a society. (burakkanber.com)
120 points by bkanber on Oct 20, 2012 | hide | past | favorite | 21 comments



This post turned out to be much more interesting than I initially thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be another post-mortem on why a particular startup failed, but this was in fact much more interesting.

The idea that this community bootstrapped itself, and self-evolved to the point of including things like trolls and "white knights" to me is extremely fascinating.

The other thing interesting is the idea that it was able to get 10k users without any effort. There was definitely a market for this particular app, but only because it's free. I'm curious how much a monetization attempt would have hurt the bootstrapping effort, and whether or not it would be translatable to things like Instagram or Pinterest, which has zero monetization but a lot of users.


Burak is a world-class hacker.

I am one of the friends whom he mentions "make fun of me because I write software entirely from scratch". It's true, I bust his chops about it (for example: he once wrote a search engine with PHP / MongoDB so he could learn about tokenization techniques / inverted indexes; luckily he threw it away for ElasticSearch eventually).

But, that's what makes him an awesome programmer: he hacks things to learn, then builds thing to last. And he has fun doing it.


I think I have too much fun doing it. Isn't work supposed to be boring, or something?


This post epitomizes the fun of being a hacker


Building and observing virtual communities is the most fun I've ever had in my life (dabbling self-proclaimed psychologists could write dozens of blog posts on the matter :) ).

For almost 7 years now, I've been a moderator of a once very active (several thousand daily active users) and still somewhat active forum; and the mythologies, unspoken norms, cliques, memes, etc. that emerge are just fascinating. It's really a miniature world in itself.

What's even more interesting is adding arbitrary game mechanics on top of it. I've built a couple PHP webgames when I was in college, and while none of them became quite big, fascinating patterns emerged. In most of them, I would, by design, let as many elements as possible be up to the players; and you end up with micro-societies that tend to show the same basic behavioral patterns as our own, just on a smaller scale.

For example in one of them instead of just collecting resources and spending them to build weapons like most games of the genre do, the game would force you to join a coalition where a player-elected leader would decide how to spend resources collected by the players. Players could plot to overthrow the leader, or re-elect him if they felt he was fair, but also smuggle resources to enemy coalitions, etc. In some coalitions, the leader tried to be fair and just, but that would ultimately lead to his demise; in some others, leaders would be dictators that the other players actually appreciated and supported; and in some others, the leaders would plot like crazy with some players while pretending to be honest publicly.

Yeah, these experiments are fun and humans are fascinating :)


Sounds fun. Any links to material on making Php games? Did you just link spam forums for users? What stops people playing?


There's not that much literature, surprisingly. You can find some basic tutorials on how to create scripts to do basic things, but to my knowledge there are no complete compendium walking through the creation of a complex game like OGame or Travian (two of the most well known) from A to Z.

As far as users, I publicized the games to my friends and on forums where I was an active member, and it was pretty much all word of mouth from there. I never went past 4 digits though.

As for what stops people playing, it's a good question with varied answers. Some people have naturally a short attention span, and move on to other things. Some people just slowly fade away after a few weeks/months because they find another newer game they like better. Some stay for a long time even if they get bored by the game because they like the community. It's very varied.

Ultimately, if you want to keep your players, you need to be active in the community you created: organizing events, communicating with players to solve their problems/questions, adding new features (and publicizing upcoming features they can get excited about); and all of that is very time consuming and hard to do if you're not full time on that project.


My first ever project was a text-based MMORPG game written in Perl. This was back in 1999, so I have no idea if there is material anywhere on making PHP or Perl games like that, but my approach was to "just make it".

That project had 10,000 active users, and it was all word-of-mouth.


Absolutely! Just gotta be careful not to develop a God complex in situations like that...



Interesting post. This is exactly the same kind of thing that happens on smaller IRC networks. Power groups come and go. Sometimes servers (with their own regular users) join the network and stay for a few months. Political compromises are made (you can enforce your crazy rule if you bring X number of users). Fascinating to watch, but a colossal time drain.


A good friend of mine, pixelmonkey, likes to say that SiteChat was just me rebuilding IRC as a Chrome Extension. I agree with that assessment!


I remember Pud let mobog go even when it had many thousands of users some years ago when mobiles could start taking photos and sending emails. Probably a mistake, ask him. But, why not get webmasters interested in it, give them a widget and a different color username for their site and watch what happens.

- also put in a bitcoin address for donations - both for you and the webmaster.


Burak hocam sen paylaşırsında ben vote etmem mi yahu :)


Anlamadim.. cok az Turkce biliyorum!


> Anlamadim.. cok az Turkce biliyorum!

This, on the other hand, is translated quite well:

> I beg your pardon .. I know very little Turkish!


Finally, Google translate accurately translated something! Though I meant "anlamadim" as "I didn't understand you".. which is close enough to "I beg your pardon", I guess.


> Burak hocam sen paylaşırsında ben vote etmem mi yahu

Google Translate has a fun take on this:

> I do not vote you fuck my teacher John paylaşırsında


Ahaha... I think paylaşırsında means "shared" or something similar, and probably John was translated from my name, Burak. So the best I could figure out was something like:

"Burak, my teacher, I won't vote your shared fuck"

I still can't figure out what it means. My Turkish is very weak.


Google Translate probably failed because he used a negative question (without a question mark). "Wouldn't I vote for whatever you share, Burak, my teacher" is the literal translation.

I have no idea why "yahu" is translated as fuck though. It means something like "oh my Lord" in Arabic, Turks often use it as a filler.


It's something like:

> My teacher* Burak, wouldn't I give you a vote (up) when you share?

By the way, his sentence is grammatically incorrect in Turkish too.

* I've translated "hocam" as "my teacher" but it's not a accurate translation. In Modern Turkey it's slug which means something like "someone who you value their opinions".

edit: kayral's translation is more accurate then mine.




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