Being an atheist or smoking weed is your own personal choice, stalking women so you can take suggestive pictures of them so that a community of fellow stalkers can oogle is a violation of another person's integrity. If you are suggesting that kind of behavior is equivalent to what is going on in r/atheism or r/trees, you might want to reexamine your views on stalking and sexism against women.
/r/trees and /r/athiesm might not evoke the same rancor in you as /r/CreepyShots but I am sure it does to somebody.
So, while I don't personally think they are equivalent on an offensiveness scale (I personally don't find /r/trees or /r/atheism offensive at all), somebody might. Should reddit censor those subreddits too? Maybe they should allow people to take a vote on controversial subreddits every week and remove the ones that don't make the cut? I don't know.
I am not defending CreepyShots. I am trying to start a conversation that might lead to some answers that I simply don't have. How do we defend open expression of ideas while censoring things? Is it possible? How offensive does something have to be to reach the censorship threshold? Is there a better test (e.g. legality (doh! /r/trees) or potential danger to others (doh! /r/athiesm)?) Can we let the mob decide on a periodic basis?
I know how I personally deal with it. I just don't subscribe to those subreddits.
I'm sure that the atheism and tress subreddits are offensive to somebody, but offensiveness of speech isn't the issue here. Also, I'm not advocating for community votes on banning subreddits, I'm merely pointing out that the site operators of Reddit are acting in a very unethical way.
> I am not defending CreepyShots. I am trying to start a conversation that might lead to some answers that I simply don't have. How do we defend open expression of ideas while censoring things?
Creepshots isn't just about ideas, it was a community which promoted and encouraged actual, physical acts that violated the privacy and safety of others. Again, this isn't just about speech, Reddit created a space that endorsed and promoted what those assholes in creepshots were doing all while the owners of Reddit profited and did nothing to keep the overall site safe for those targeted by users of creepshots. Again, they are not obligated to do so, but they should sure as hell be called out on it and feel the consequences of that.
> I know how I personally deal with it. I just don't subscribe to those subreddits.
I'm sure many of the women that ended up in pictures on creepshots didn't subscribe to it, but that doesn't help them when they have been violated or when those photos are used by some weirdo to target that person for more of the same treatment. Saying "just ignore it" is the kind of derailment that perpetuates sexism and racism, hence why you are de facto supporting creepshots.
> Creepshots isn't just about ideas, it was a community which promoted and encouraged actual, physical acts that violated the privacy and safety of others.
This is very solid argument and could make for a very good test.
"Could this subreddit reasonably pose a direct physical danger to someone without their consent?"
The 'without their consent' avoids arguments against home chemistry subreddits and things like that.
"Is this subreddit at least partially about the expression of some idea?"
If the answer is in the affirmative, the first test might have to be re visited. For example, a subreddit dedicated to the overthrow of a government might strictly fail the first test but the crux of the subreddit might be the exchange of ideas on that topic.
I can get behind the removal of subreddits based on these questions.
