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The jvm is doing fine. A low level stack oriented language can be a target.



What does that have to do with _anything_ said by either Chuck Moore or the person to whom you replied? I get that programmers (and I'm no exception) have a mental defect where they try to show how smart they are by compulsively interjecting at every opportunity. But for that to have a chance of scoring you geek points you need to have some claim to relevancy, however pedantic and tangential.


I'm not here for the points.

I'll spell it out for you: the JVM is the most widely deployed stack machine in use today. The fact that you don't normally program it directly using a stack-machine like interface does not diminish the fact that the concept of the stack machine is very successful. Yes, there are some warts and issues but on the whole it works quite well and it never ceases to amaze me how fast it can be made to work using JIT and other technologies that weren't even around when Chuck did most of his work. The stack machine has been one of the most enduring concepts in programming.

If you haven't programmed the JVM directly then I would invite you to do so, it's lots of fun and you can pull tricks that would be hard to replicate using java.

Now that clojure and other source level languages have been added to the mix there is even more life in the ecosystem.

In short - and to make the point again - stack machines don't need to be the source language to be effective, but if you really want then you can use them that way.

I'm not sure if factor is running reliably on the JVM yet (there were some attempts in that direction) but that would be a fantastic way to unlock the stack languages true potential, a forth like language on a virtual machine with enormous deployment. That could do for the forth family of languages what clojure is doing for the lisp family.

edit: I simply love being downvoted for a gracious reply to a bunch of insults.


Moore's talk touched on the advantages of stack machines, one of which is portability. Hey, guess what is a particularly important and portable stack machine.

But I get that programmers have a mental defect where they try to show how smart they are by compulsively insulting people at every opportunity. But for that to have a chance of scoring you geek points your comments need to be not completely useless.


Th JVM's stack-oriented bytecode is a liability, not an advantage. http://static.usenix.org/events/vee05/full_papers/p153-yunhe...


That paper does not take into account the optimizations done at JIT level.




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