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I'm not surprised, it was too early for an A15, and Samsung would not give it to Apple before they used it themselves.

Similarly, they were unlikely to be high clocked A9s because of battery life- apple has a history of using low clocked cores too.

I see this as Apple's long-term play for competitive advantage, while their main previous ones- refined OS and high PPI screen- have become the norm.




Apple have more history and clout with ARM than Samsung so they don't have to wait on Sansung for anything, they use them to fabricate the chips, they use others as well. Also with the volume they are using and the stabalising of life of some production setup's it wont be long until Apple build there own fabrication plant. Though I'm sure they will wait for a nice TAX break or chance to pick up somebody elses cheap. Though it is more than viable for them.

Apple may also be worried about clones and in that by having a more than customed CPU than most will alow them to lock there iOS more and more to there kit only. Whilst not an issue now, it may down the line if they get hit with a monoply commision legal run-in and in this way they would still make a larger cut than just liscencing out iOS.

The trend in every mobile generation has been add features, screen size/colour depth and then back to battery life. It will be after all the next major selling point amongst a collection of phones with high end features.

As for the A15, its more targeted at a level that is too much for what smartphones can handle batterywise and feature wise. That said they may of used parts of the A15 with part of the A9 core making a hybrid, not everybody has to use the cookie-cutter templates ARM has to offer and Apple are free to customise or basterdise them however they like.


Woops, downvoted your post by mistake. Wasn't trying to vote; was just tapping around, trying to deselect some text.


To error is to human, all good.


"Samsung would not give it to Apple before they used it themselves."

two mistakes in that phrase:

- A15 isn't Samsung's to give to Apple -- they license that from ARM. Yes, Samsung manufactures Apple's chips, but the chip is designed by Apple using IP licensed from ARM, Imagination Technologies and others, but as far as Samsung is concerned the chip is a black box.

- Samsung has given technology to Apple before they used it themselves several times in the past.

I also doubt the first part of your statement. It's early for an A15, but it's certainly within Apple's power to persuade ARM to help them get something they want to market early. Spending their billions to bend supplier's arms is one of the things that Apple does best.


Samsung being a conglomerate, isn't the chip division of Samsung operating independently of it's phone/electronics division? If so then I see no reason why Samsung Fab would deny a certain type of chip design to a customer like Apple.


The CEO of the company emphasized that point by not attending the meeting after they lost the lawsuit. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/us-samsung-apple-s...


1. Samsung are poised to be the first manufacturer to bring an A15 based SOC to market. There are no doubt many issues involved in the reality of manufacturing a new arm core, no one else is as close as Samsung. So i maintain that Apple would have needed Samsung to enable them to use an A15.

2. Yes, they have supplied apple with stuff that only they can make before using it themselves - eg. the iPad screen (but IIRC LG were meant to be supplying too), but i still don't think they would want to give apple a CPU platform that was undoubtedly better than their flagship phone so soon after releasing it.

3. ARM aren't really a supplier to apple, they just licence designs. ARM have no manufacturing expertise.


> "i still don't think they would want to give apple a CPU platform that was undoubtedly better than their flagship phone so soon after releasing it"

You need to bear in mind that the division of Samsung that sells the chips is totally separate from the division that sells the phones. The silicon division doesn't particularly care about the phone division - they care about their bottom line alone. And Apple turning up with a dump truck of cash, which is basically what they've been doing to secure component supplies, is not something they wil turn down lightly.

Apple is somewhat unique among consumer electronics companies in that it is very singly focused. Samsung, along with Sony, Microsoft, and others, are multi-conglomerates, with vast reaching business interests, and Samsung's chip fab division only really cares about the profits their division is making. Money from Apple, money from an internal cross-charge: profit is profit.

> "3. ARM aren't really a supplier to apple, they just licence designs. ARM have no manufacturing expertise."

I don't think this is what you mean. You mean ARM have no expertise manufacturing at scale. ARM have extensive manufacturing expertise, because they need to supply reference designs that work in production. ARM has manufacturing expertise because they need to produce designs that are easy to manufacture.


I would say ARM have expertise in 'designing for manufacture' which is distinct from the actual manufacturing, but lets say they have no expertise in 'production manufacturing'.

While Samsung does indeed contain a bunch of largely separate companies, both chips and phones are part of Samsung Electronics, there is one set of top management for both.


Samsung have made it very clear that there is a 'firewall' between the component and product sides of the business.

One side does not affect the other.


I wonder if it's actually true.


They have most likely done many calculations that clearly say "if we lose Apple on the supply side, we lose <insert ridiculous amount of money that eclipses smartphone revenue here>."


> So i maintain that Apple would have needed Samsung to enable them to use an A15.

I would guess if Apple is capable of designing their own Microarchitectures they would be perfectly capable of compiling a bunch of HDL code they can get straight from ARM. [1]

> but i still don't think they would want to give apple a CPU platform that was undoubtedly better than their flagship phone so soon after releasing it

Samsung also acts as a foundry, they manufacture designs of other people in the same sense a printing shop prints books written by other people. I don't think this involves Samsung "giving Apple a CPU platform", at least not any more.

[1] Yes, in reality thats quite a bit more complicated.


> Samsung are poised to be the first manufacturer to bring an A15 based SOC to market.

As are TI, and if Samsung and TI schedules slip a bit more, NVidia might even be first. It's a fairly tight race right now.




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