Do the demigods of the Linux kernel - Linus and the core maintainers - personally want the kind of code Asahi is developing to be merged into the kernel? The author writes as if part of his drive was that Linus himself showed enthusiasm for getting Linux on Apple Silicon.
If there is interest in the work Asahi has done, then the Linux team needs to describe what they see as the gap between today's code quality and support model and what they want to see before upstreaming.
It sounds like the Linux team has been wishy-washy and needs to draw a line in the sand on their needs rather than handwaving about being part of the "community".
It would be fair to say "we don't like your attitude or trust you to work with us kindly over the years and don't want to deal with you", if that's the case. Just don't dance around it.
> The author writes as if part of his drive was that Linus himself showed enthusiasm for getting Linux on Apple Silicon.
Perhaps the author jumped to conclusions after Linus himself started using Asahi Linux on his own laptop for Linux kernel development[0]. Note the praise for the Asahi team in the commit message.
And it sounds like you read just one side of the story, with no background in Linux kernel internals. This is about how C APIs are typically inherently unsafe, Rust people wanting to build safe(r) abstractions on top, and a question of who is responsible for changing what code when it's time to refactor the underlying C API. And yes, marcan is being overly dramatic, though he is not alone in that.
I do not claim a background in Linux kernel internals. I'm a human who has seen teams miscommunicate in the past, and see it now. I'm not sure what I said that drew hostility.
It sounds like you agree with me though. The Linux team needs to clearly define the expectation they have for code maintenance from the team trying to upstream Rust code (edit) and the Asahi team needs to acknowledge how/if they can meet those expectations.
Well, stop accusing people who's work you don't know of being wishy-washy.
The challenge is not dictating from high above some criteria; the challenge is discovering the criteria that will let the Linux project continue development as well as can be arranged. This is why you'll hear Linus say it's a learning experience, and not just make proclamation of how things shall be (at this stage).
I don't think it's reasonable to read my original comment as an "accusation". I said "it sounds like" as part of a casual conversation about the subject. There was no hostility in my comment.
Would you say that the Asahi team wasn't receptive to the pace at which the needed criteria were being developed?
My point is that between these two groups there seems to be a misunderstanding of expectations. And being the upstream org, and not having read every mailing list thread, I would expect the kernel team to have built a framework for accepting this kind of code. Or a framework for building the framework.
The framework is "we will discuss it and a consensus may emerge". Linux is an open source project, not a company trying to remain profitable for the next quarter. If some outsider stumbles in and expects something else, well, they didn't understand what they were getting into.
Having structure to decision-making doesn't have anything to do with having a profit motive. Asahi nor myself as an outsider have brought up money.
It sounds like the implicit answer to "Does Linux want Asahi contributions" is "low priority". Which is fine if that's communicated.
I sense you have been involved in these discussions already and have a strong opinion about the specifics of this topic. I don't mean that in a bad way.
You continue to misunderstand open source. "Linux" in incapable of wanting things. Linus as the quality gatekeeper of the main repository cannot tell anyone what to do; his power is purely saying "I won't merge that". The project is what the project contributors do, and nobody can tell them as a group what to do. It's herding cats, not a business meeting.
I have very little personal interest in Asahi, I am not really part of that "conversation", but I dislike outsiders coming in and expecting to dictate how something that predates them should work. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean anyone else has to listen to it. If you want to understand, read linux-kernel the mailing list and watch people like Al Viro work (Minimum realistic time allotment: multiple months).
Do the demigods of the Linux kernel - Linus and the core maintainers - personally want the kind of code Asahi is developing to be merged into the kernel? The author writes as if part of his drive was that Linus himself showed enthusiasm for getting Linux on Apple Silicon.
If there is interest in the work Asahi has done, then the Linux team needs to describe what they see as the gap between today's code quality and support model and what they want to see before upstreaming.
It sounds like the Linux team has been wishy-washy and needs to draw a line in the sand on their needs rather than handwaving about being part of the "community".
It would be fair to say "we don't like your attitude or trust you to work with us kindly over the years and don't want to deal with you", if that's the case. Just don't dance around it.