> note how very little the current regime cares about the appearance of impropriety
Yes, and I know it wasn't unfair treatment what "forced" them to get this way and do these things. They wanted to do them anyway.
For me it's not even about respecting certain principles so that you can demand them from people who don't like plurality (e.g. current US administration). It's just about the principles, nothing utilitarian. If one had to give up such principles to "win", then there is nothing to win anyway. Though I also think that intellectual honesty and tolerance, freedom and confidence etc. (not lip service to them) are really powerful. Something that can and does make people go "I want that for myself and the people around me".
And I think criticizing "one's own" isn't necessarily weakness, it doesn't have to lead to bickering and division. Just look at how you told someone off, and then I told you off, and now we're having this little conversation. Bad start, but better landing.
Mind you, I think some passion and having fun with the in-group, making some fun of other groups, can be fine. It's what people do when they do something together they believe in and are excited about. But some ironic distance, not unironically believing one's in-group to be "the" good guys, is also needed. And just generally thinking less in groups and labels first, and individuals and their opinions or arguments second, if at all.
Sorry for rambling, but also thanks for hearing me.
I agree. Where I start dooming is in realizing that incorrectness and simplistic modeling is a lot sexier than complexity. The world's now so much more complex than it ever has been, and we just haven't been able to keep up with it.
Yes, and I know it wasn't unfair treatment what "forced" them to get this way and do these things. They wanted to do them anyway.
For me it's not even about respecting certain principles so that you can demand them from people who don't like plurality (e.g. current US administration). It's just about the principles, nothing utilitarian. If one had to give up such principles to "win", then there is nothing to win anyway. Though I also think that intellectual honesty and tolerance, freedom and confidence etc. (not lip service to them) are really powerful. Something that can and does make people go "I want that for myself and the people around me".
And I think criticizing "one's own" isn't necessarily weakness, it doesn't have to lead to bickering and division. Just look at how you told someone off, and then I told you off, and now we're having this little conversation. Bad start, but better landing.
Mind you, I think some passion and having fun with the in-group, making some fun of other groups, can be fine. It's what people do when they do something together they believe in and are excited about. But some ironic distance, not unironically believing one's in-group to be "the" good guys, is also needed. And just generally thinking less in groups and labels first, and individuals and their opinions or arguments second, if at all.
Sorry for rambling, but also thanks for hearing me.