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> he who gets the most votes wins

Aren't you forgetting the essential "while playing by the rules"? Getting the most votes by cheating - and it looks like that was certainly the case here, no doubt about it - is the opposite of democracy. Winning by cheating just happens to be the staple of the very country suspected of interfering. Are you promoting the same "values"?

> the powers that be don’t approve

You are right here. I personally consider it completely normal if the democratically elected powers that be don't approve when someone claims to have won an election - which nobody actually won since the process didn't finish - despite cheating. Winning by cheating is the opposite of democracy. If breaking the law to win is considered democracy, then why is legally restarting elections to win any less so? Hypocritical or trollish preferences aside.




“Cheating” means “manipulating votes.” It cannot mean “persuading voters through means I don’t like.” That opens up a Pandora’s box you cannot close. There’s no limiting principle to draw clear lines about what’s proper influence versus improper influence.


I understand what you are saying, but this is also historically how authoritarian regimes are enshrined, by persuading people in misleading or corrupted ways.

I feel your attitude is a bit defeatist. I think there are mechanisms that can work to protect from deception. For example, transparency of funds, or origin of the message. It's similar to asking for candy bar makers to disclose the true ingredient list and calorie count. It's not a Pandora's box to require this transparency from all politically inclined parties.

And I'm sure other mechanisms could be thought off.

To me, putting in place mechanisms like that and valuing them above even your current opinion of who to vote for matters as much as free speech. It's in the same category. Free speech is another mechanism that even if you don't like what's being said, you should value the right to free speech above it. I think mechanisms to prevent deception are just as important to value even above your personal choice, if you care to keep democracy free.

The scale at which information can be manipulated now, it's easy to be consuming more ideas that are coming from outside your country than inside it without even knowing that all the posts, blogs, tiktoks, tweets, news, memes, and ads you are seeing are not representative of what people in your country are thinking or saying in any proportion, but instead coming from outside your country, orchestrated by rich or organized groups, trying to make you think this is the current discourse, until it becomes the current discourse.


I disagree with that definition of cheating. Manipulating people is cheating. Everyone cheats, just this guy seems off the charts and you have to draw the line somewhere.

Too many people on this thread think in black and white. Because everyone cheats/lie it’s ok to cheat/lie as much as you want.

Very defeatist, as the other commenter said.


The difficulty of drawing a line is not a killer argument against drawing a line. Both choices suck, but you can still decide what's the lesser evil.


> “Cheating” means “manipulating votes.” It cannot mean “persuading voters through means I don’t like.”

How selective, rayiner. But really "cheating" means not following the rules of the activity you engage in. Those rules are thankfully codified in election law and not an internet comment.

Just to give you some food for though, I could poison my opponents. Which doesn't "manipulate votes", it just “persuades voters through means others don’t like”. By your carefully thought out definition, I did not cheat, fair win.

On the other hand I could take a whole load of dirty hidden money (from foreign actors) against what the law demands, and use that money to... "manipulate votes", because effectively I manipulated and lied to the people giving me the votes. So, as you'd say, I cheated.

I have no expectations that you're here to let your mind be changed though, because I don't think many of the hundreds of "troll" like comments here come from genuine misunderstanding.




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